Liverpool v Brighton 25/8. K. O. 17.30pm

Liverpool Football Club - Games

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:52 pm

Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:22 pm wrote:Keita is not a defensive midfielder , he is a box to box midfielder who can do all roles but yesterday was playing high close to the front three - which was also an issue because the middle of the park was getting crowded and he was getting into spaces that the front three were trying to find - because Brighton were packing that solidly. So what the team needed to do was not flood the middle up high but look to spread the play with the use of Robertson and AA very high - something explained very well on motd.

But as for the nonsense about water carriers - here is a couple of stats for you about those “water carriers” - Milner played more forward passes in the opposition half than anyone else , remind us again who was pressing high to rob the Brighton player of the ball for our goal - Milner and Gini had more forward dribbles going past more people than anyone else on the pitch and his pass map clearly shows he is far from a water carrier.

For someone to suggest Klopp was being gun shy and conservative confirms your lack of understand of his way of play and also how we played yesterday - the stats show the team were far from conservative and certainly not gun shy - off aim maybe but you make it sound like we were the team sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball and a bank of three sat in front of the CB’s - heat maps will tell you that’s far from the case. You clearly have got pre conceived ideas about our midfield which is baseless - what they do on the pitch proves your theory wrong.


You clearly know more about Keita than he knows about himself, go look at his first interview for LFC TV, he describes himself as primarily a defensive player.
And I don't care what the stats say, football is a sport not a science, Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum are not creative players, yes they might throw the odd ball into the box that someone gets on the end of but that's not what I'd call a creative player, to me creative players are the likes of Kenny Dalglish, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes and even Steven Gerrard. Creative players are players who see passes other players don't see, if I took corners and free kicks all season for a team like Wimbledon in the 80's I'd probably finish the season with 20 assists, that wouldn't make me a creative player though the stats would argue otherwise.
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Postby Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:04 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:52 pm wrote:
Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:22 pm wrote:Keita is not a defensive midfielder , he is a box to box midfielder who can do all roles but yesterday was playing high close to the front three - which was also an issue because the middle of the park was getting crowded and he was getting into spaces that the front three were trying to find - because Brighton were packing that solidly. So what the team needed to do was not flood the middle up high but look to spread the play with the use of Robertson and AA very high - something explained very well on motd.

But as for the nonsense about water carriers - here is a couple of stats for you about those “water carriers” - Milner played more forward passes in the opposition half than anyone else , remind us again who was pressing high to rob the Brighton player of the ball for our goal - Milner and Gini had more forward dribbles going past more people than anyone else on the pitch and his pass map clearly shows he is far from a water carrier.

For someone to suggest Klopp was being gun shy and conservative confirms your lack of understand of his way of play and also how we played yesterday - the stats show the team were far from conservative and certainly not gun shy - off aim maybe but you make it sound like we were the team sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball and a bank of three sat in front of the CB’s - heat maps will tell you that’s far from the case. You clearly have got pre conceived ideas about our midfield which is baseless - what they do on the pitch proves your theory wrong.


You clearly know more about Keita than he knows about himself, go look at his first interview for LFC TV, he describes himself as primarily a defensive player.
And I don't care what the stats say, football is a sport not a science, Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum are not creative players, yes they might throw the odd ball into the box that someone gets on the end of but that's not what I'd call a creative player, to me creative players are the likes of Kenny Dalglish, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes and even Steven Gerrard. Creative players are players who see passes other players don't see, if I took corners and free kicks all season for a team like Wimbledon in the 80's I'd probably finish the season with 20 assists, that wouldn't make me a creative player though the stats would argue otherwise.


Yep I don’t think you understand the way Klopp plays and how he sets up his team and what he wants each player to do - but thankfully Klopp does know what he is doing and doesn’t pick players who aren’t doing what he wants - he doesn’t suffer fools and has no problems getting rid - Yet Gini and Milner both keep playing , to continue to keep calling them Water Carriers or Plodders is actually disrespectful to both of them as well as not really understand their role in the team . I suspect you are one of those 4-4-2 winger types from the 80’s who can’t drag themselves into how a modern manager sets up the team.

Go around the forums and everyone is very positive about the start - three clean sheets and three wins when the front three are still finding their feet is something to be positive about - apart from you but are you ever positive ? Suspect not but it’s staggeringly funny for someone to call Klopp conservative and gun shy - that is funny
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Postby Reg » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:26 pm

His name is Yakka.
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Postby red till i die!! » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:57 pm

3 wins out of 3 and 3 clean sheets is as good a start as we could have hoped for, so no complaints there.

Brighton were very organised but any team in this division can be on their day. Our defence is what got us through that with the points so at least the improvement is clear there. The rest we have seen before where we are found lacking and off form in front of goal so if anything its a bit disappointing to see us not bring on someone like Shaquiri who I thought we bought exactly for that reason. His introduction wouldn't have made us any less vulnerable at all.

Another commanding game from VVD and Robbo also. Both players in fantastic form. Thought Wijnaldum played well also and showed some confident stuff when alongside Naby. Becker will get caught out sometime but when needed he is there and pulled a great save out of the bag to keep us ahead. Another great finish by Mo as well. Bobby looks tired imo and shouldn't be starting for us yet. I hope Klopp is doing his best to persuade him to sit out the international break that's coming up.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:07 pm

Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:04 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:52 pm wrote:
Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:22 pm wrote:Keita is not a defensive midfielder , he is a box to box midfielder who can do all roles but yesterday was playing high close to the front three - which was also an issue because the middle of the park was getting crowded and he was getting into spaces that the front three were trying to find - because Brighton were packing that solidly. So what the team needed to do was not flood the middle up high but look to spread the play with the use of Robertson and AA very high - something explained very well on motd.

But as for the nonsense about water carriers - here is a couple of stats for you about those “water carriers” - Milner played more forward passes in the opposition half than anyone else , remind us again who was pressing high to rob the Brighton player of the ball for our goal - Milner and Gini had more forward dribbles going past more people than anyone else on the pitch and his pass map clearly shows he is far from a water carrier.

For someone to suggest Klopp was being gun shy and conservative confirms your lack of understand of his way of play and also how we played yesterday - the stats show the team were far from conservative and certainly not gun shy - off aim maybe but you make it sound like we were the team sitting deep with 11 men behind the ball and a bank of three sat in front of the CB’s - heat maps will tell you that’s far from the case. You clearly have got pre conceived ideas about our midfield which is baseless - what they do on the pitch proves your theory wrong.


You clearly know more about Keita than he knows about himself, go look at his first interview for LFC TV, he describes himself as primarily a defensive player.
And I don't care what the stats say, football is a sport not a science, Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum are not creative players, yes they might throw the odd ball into the box that someone gets on the end of but that's not what I'd call a creative player, to me creative players are the likes of Kenny Dalglish, Peter Beardsley, John Barnes and even Steven Gerrard. Creative players are players who see passes other players don't see, if I took corners and free kicks all season for a team like Wimbledon in the 80's I'd probably finish the season with 20 assists, that wouldn't make me a creative player though the stats would argue otherwise.


Yep I don’t think you understand the way Klopp plays and how he sets up his team and what he wants each player to do - but thankfully Klopp does know what he is doing and doesn’t pick players who aren’t doing what he wants - he doesn’t suffer fools and has no problems getting rid - Yet Gini and Milner both keep playing , to continue to keep calling them Water Carriers or Plodders is actually disrespectful to both of them as well as not really understand their role in the team . I suspect you are one of those 4-4-2 winger types from the 80’s who can’t drag themselves into how a modern manager sets up the team.

Go around the forums and everyone is very positive about the start - three clean sheets and three wins when the front three are still finding their feet is something to be positive about - apart from you but are you ever positive ? Suspect not but it’s staggeringly funny for someone to call Klopp conservative and gun shy - that is funny


I go back further than the 80's and I'm not a fan of 4-4-2, I prefer 4-2-3-1.
At the moment we have a team of XI players and only 3 of them are out and out offensive players, I'm sure we could shoehorn an AM in there somewhere, especially when we are at home to relegation dodgers.
What is Jurgen scared of? Brighton's attack?
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Postby Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:53 pm

Wrong - we have a squad of 23 players with plenty of attacking options , I guess in the 70’s it was just 11 men but a lot has changed. We struggled at times last season to get wins from games like yesterday and to stop conceding goals - guess what at the moment we prob have the best back line in the league a very diverse creative midfield and an attack that will score lots of goals. Plus now we have more strength in depth to be able to keep players fresher for the run in. I would suggest you have a re look at yesterday - see the chances created , see how high the pitch the full backs were going to create the width and see how much all three of the “plodders” were always on the front foot
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:31 pm

Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:53 pm wrote:Wrong - we have a squad of 23 players with plenty of attacking options , I guess in the 70’s it was just 11 men but a lot has changed. We struggled at times last season to get wins from games like yesterday and to stop conceding goals - guess what at the moment we prob have the best back line in the league a very diverse creative midfield and an attack that will score lots of goals. Plus now we have more strength in depth to be able to keep players fresher for the run in. I would suggest you have a re look at yesterday - see the chances created , see how high the pitch the full backs were going to create the width and see how much all three of the “plodders” were always on the front foot


Our fullbacks don't play particularly high, yes they get down the flanks but liverpool fullbacks have been doing that for decades, Chris Lawler never took a pen in his life but scored more goals for Liverpool than Dirk Kuyt, Phil Neal scored in 2 European Cup finals, Alan Kennedy won us a European Cup with a goal from fullback, back in the day our fullbacks used to get in the box and on the end of crosses, that's what I call playing high up the pitch.
Btw what the hell does 'diverse, creative midfield' mean, if it is some sort of euphemism for the midfield we finished yesterday's game with (Milner, Henderson and Wijnaldum) why don't you use some Shankly-esque plain language and call it what it is - bang average.
They don't contribute goals in open play and the extent of their creativity is slinging a percentage ball into the box. They do run around a lot though, I'll give them that. You can carry one of them in a 3 but having all 3 of them on the pitch at the same time is just taking us backwards.
No wonder they called Buvac the brain if that's what Jurgen considers a title winning midfield.
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Postby Lallana in Pyjamas » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:40 pm

Christ you are stuck in the past

If don’t think our fullbacks go high then how the heck did one of he last shots on target come from just outside the box from AA after being passed the ball from Robertson who was inside the box

You appear to be stuck dreaming of days gone by and the level of critical remarks to our players and manager is at best disrespectful as well as clearly wrong

We have prob our best and strongest squad for a very long time - it’s very hard to see the weak points if you understand the way the manager wants to play - which you clearly don’t.

That midfield is not “bang average” far from it but i suspect you have preconceived ideas about the players - I did notice you being very positive about the three Chelsea midfielders - all three are far from positive or attacking and don’t really contribute to the goal tally
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Postby UvS xR4GEx » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm

Gini, Milner, Hendo are all midfielders that have high energy and suffocate the midfield areas. It's good against the lower teams because they panic on the ball and give away possession easy. But against the top team that midfield is not creative enough, they got found out massively against Madrid. Ox does add a different dimension as he's quick and can beat a man.. I think he was one of the reasons we beat City in the league and the champions league. I think Naby has the ability to dribble past players and also do the suffocating pressing role aswell... I think given time Fabinho will be a major upgrade for our midfield.. he's good at cutting passing lanes, he's good at dribbling out from the back, and he's good in the air.

I think Klopp is saving him for the big games with the opposition not knowing what to expect.
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Postby Santa » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:56 am

I'm slightly concerned about the attacking side from our middle three...on days like this when the front 3 have been choked, we are calling out for someone who are able to direct and carve open chances but with Keita slightly off colour, we don't have too much creativity flair out there. We can almost guarantee that teams are just gonna come here and packed the defense and play as a compact unit all season because they know that's the only chance they will keep the score down...so we will need to solve this puzzle, real soon
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Postby Pig Catcher » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:54 pm wrote:
Lallana in Pyjamas » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:50 pm wrote:Wasn’t a champagne performance but the players really had to graft today hence why someone like Shaqiri doesn’t come - Brighton were superb in their set up and we had to grind and be patient , it wasn’t a game for the video archives but it was a result that was extremely important

Superb at the back and the “one pace plodders” in the midfield were brilliant - Milner and Gini excellent today


Milner and Gini, along with the likes of Trent, Robbo, Firmino, Mane and even Mo gave the ball away countless times, it was a poor performance at home against a team that will finish in the bottom half.


One thing you can't accuse Gini of is giving the ball away cheaply.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/313808-gini-wijnaldum-passing-stats-liverpool-brighton

In numbers: Gini's practically perfect passing

Georginio Wijnaldum left the pitch after Liverpool's 1-0 defeat of Brighton and Hove Albion having recorded remarkable passing statistics throughout the game.

The Netherlands international was named in Jürgen Klopp’s midfield for the third match in succession and was pivotal in ensuring a third straight win.

Opta data showed Wijnaldum did not misplace a single pass until the 80th minute of the encounter, which the Reds won through Mohamed Salah’s first-half goal.

The No.5 played 76 passes in the match with 98.7 per cent accuracy and more than half of those came in Brighton territory – with 100 per cent accuracy.

He took 93 touches of the ball, contested 12 duels, made three tackles, one interception and one block, while no player on the pitch was fouled more times (four).

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Postby Pig Catcher » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:54 am

Personally I think Gini has been excellent in that number 6 role. He played it once or twice last year and I prefer him there to Henderson when we face an opposition set up to sit deep. He's far better at turning on the ball under pressure and linking the defence to the attack. He's been excellent this season.

Keita has looked classy in the number 8 role but I think he's been playing with the handbrake on a little. Once his confidence develops he'll be prepared to dribble a bit more and play some more high risk passes and then he'll start having an impact on our attacking play.

I love Milner, but he's not a number 10 and we all know that. Last season Man City were dispatching teams who were happy to sit in their own third and not have a go. And that's because they had De Bruyne and David Silva in the middle. We dropped a lot of points last season in matches like the one on Saturday. Allison, Keita and Shaq all address problem areas in the squad but the failure to get Fekir means we will drop quite a few important points against teams in the bottom 10. Shaq isn’t the answer in that role. Just like when Sturridge plays upfront, we’ll lose a bit of control of the game if Shaq were to come in for Milner and we’d concede more goals. One option is to play 4-2-3-1 and play Firmino as the number 10 and one of Shaq, Mane or Salah can go upfront with the others in the wide areas.

But right now we’re we have won 3 out of 3 and haven’t conceded a goal so things are going pretty well!
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:07 pm

I'm hoping as soon as the manager is ready to integrate Fabinho affording Keita the opportunity to push up ,then we will look less workmanlike. I think the way we currently set up it suits Milners game ,but the dearth of pace he shows in his game 'will in time' leave us open to teams that work the counter a lot more efficiently than Brighton.

I'm mystified as to the reason he starts Milner over Henderson who showed in his brief cameo the precision and intelligence he affords this team in always finding the space to pick a pass and enabling our play to be more fluent.I fully understand where Yakka is coming from ,a 32 year old Milner should not be inclusive in our first choice midfield and certainly not when quality options are now available. I've always believed Keita was brought in as a direct replacement for Coutinho ,so I'm a bit underwhelmed to see him sitting back so much whilst Milner our least inventive /intuitive and slowest player is allowed to get forward,possibly this is why our triumvirate at the minute seem far too heavily reliant on Firmino to produce the ingenuity needed to unlock defenses.
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Postby Ghost of Shankly » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:56 pm

I think the point yakka was making is that Hendo, and Milner over the course of the season are not going to win you a title or champions league.
They have zero creativity. If you look back to the CL final in May. When Salah went off injured, Hendo and Milner did bugger all to create any decent chances, so we were doomed.

I wanted to see them phased out this season and replaced by Fabinho.
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Postby Lallana in Pyjamas » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:49 pm

Ghost of Shankly » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:56 pm wrote:I think the point yakka was making is that Hendo, and Milner over the course of the season are not going to win you a title or champions league.
They have zero creativity. If you look back to the CL final in May. When Salah went off injured, Hendo and Milner did bugger all to create any decent chances, so we were doomed.

I wanted to see them phased out this season and replaced by Fabinho.


Hate to disappoint you but they won’t be phased out and they weren’t the reason why we didn’t win the CL last season - it’s lazy typical stereotype to point fingers at them and say they have zero creativity- when it’s clearly false. But then you are the guy suggesting we go 4-4-2
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