Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

23 years on the FA has much to learn and even more to change

by Tony Barrett


It has taken the Football Association more than 23 years to apologise for its role in the Hillsborough disaster and when an expression of regret was finally made yesterday it still carried the corporate air of an organisation desperately trying to cover its own back. An initial statement welcoming the findings of the Hillsborough Independent Panel was woefully inadequate with the word “sorry” being conspicuous by its absence. A backlash ensued before David Bernstein finally issued an “unreserved apology” a few hours later, the FA chairman no doubt hoping that his personal intervention would stem the tide of criticism that was coming their way.

If anything, though, it served only to add to the sense of outrage. This was an organisation which 23 years earlier had put Liverpool supporters in the death trap that was the Leppings Lane terrace and then failed to accept any degree of culpability for what followed. That they did this despite the pleadings of Peter Robinson, Liverpool’s then chief executive, who beseeched them to switch the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest to Old Trafford, makes their decision all the more inexcusable.

Hillsborough had been taken off the list of venues for FA Cup semi-finals following a serious incident in 1981 in which a crush developed on the same terrace on which 96 Liverpool supporters would perish eight years later. The crucial difference on that occasion was that police opened gates, allowing 500 Tottenham Hotspur fans to escape. Disaster may have been averted but the failings of the FA and Sheffield Wednesday ensured it was merely delayed.

It was 1987 when Hillsborough, which still did not have a safety certificate, went back onto the list but it was only as a result of the FA prioritising public order issues over public safety in keeping with the prevailing Thatcherite vision of football fans. Leeds United had reached the semi-final and the FA decided that it would be better to keep their supporters within the confines of Yorkshire rather than allow them to travel to another region.

Kick-off for that tie against Coventry City was delayed as a result of congestion outside the stadium. Neither that nor problems during Liverpool’s semi-final against Nottingham Forest the following season was sufficient to make the FA realise that Hillsborough was unfit for purpose. English football’s governing body had ample opportunity to intervene prior to April 15 1989 but not once did they do so. Their complacency was one of the root causes of the Hillsborough tragedy but there is still no admission to this effect, just an ongoing washing of hands that would make Pontius Pilate blush.

“The FA and English football has changed immeasurably, and learnt many lessons in the last 23 years. English football is now a much safer, more welcoming environment for supporters,” Bernstein said yesterday. In respect to the advances prompted by the Taylor Report he is, of course, correct. But in terms of the FA’s own treatment of supporters, which at times continues to border on the contemptuous, he allowed himself to appear woefully out of touch with the ongoing failings of the organization he heads.

This is the same FA, don’t forget, which last season ordered Liverpool and Everton to play an FA Cup semi-final at Wembley on a Saturday lunchtime despite rail improvements causing the cancellation of trains between Merseyside and London. The same FA which scheduled a third round tie between Aston Villa and Manchester United in January 2002 to begin at 7pm on a Sunday evening. United fans invaded the pitch three times. The same FA which staged the 2005 FA Cup semi-final between Blackburn Rovers and Arsenal at Cardiff’s Millennium Stadium with a 12.15pm kick-off. Blackburn supporters had to begin their journey at 5am.

In one respect, Bernstein is right about the FA changing. They now prioritize television demands and income streams over the needs of supporters, in the 1980s it was more about putting security before safety. The end result, though, is the same and that is unlikely to change unless and until the FA holds up its hands and acknowledges its own shabby role in the Hillsborough disaster, an admission that was sorely lacking in Bernstein’s statement.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/09/2 ... to-change/

[maypaxvobiscum]

there was one false allegation made against some liverpool fans that was so sick and abhorrent that i'm not even going to repeat it.

i honestly don't know how these people sleep at night.

Yep, I read the report, I think I know what you're taking about 

[maypaxvobiscum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut6uvBlDQO8&feature=player_embedded

[Thommo's perm]

23 years on the FA has much to learn and even more to change

by Tony Barrett


It has taken the Football Association more than 23 years to apologise for its role in the Hillsborough disaster and when an expression of regret was finally made yesterday it still carried the corporate air of an organisation desperately trying to cover its own back. An initial statement welcoming the findings of the Hillsborough Independent Panel was woefully inadequate with the word “sorry” being conspicuous by its absence. A backlash ensued before David Bernstein finally issued an “unreserved apology” a few hours later, the FA chairman no doubt hoping that his personal intervention would stem the tide of criticism that was coming their way.

If anything, though, it served only to add to the sense of outrage. This was an organisation which 23 years earlier had put Liverpool supporters in the death trap that was the Leppings Lane terrace and then failed to accept any degree of culpability for what followed. That they did this despite the pleadings of Peter Robinson, Liverpool’s then chief executive, who beseeched them to switch the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest to Old Trafford, makes their decision all the more inexcusable.

Hillsborough had been taken off the list of venues for FA Cup semi-finals following a serious incident in 1981 in which a crush developed on the same terrace on which 96 Liverpool supporters would perish eight years later. The crucial difference on that occasion was that police opened gates, allowing 500 Tottenham Hotspur fans to escape. Disaster may have been averted but the failings of the FA and Sheffield Wednesday ensured it was merely delayed.

It was 1987 when Hillsborough, which still did not have a safety certificate, went back onto the list but it was only as a result of the FA prioritising public order issues over public safety in keeping with the prevailing Thatcherite vision of football fans. Leeds United had reached the semi-final and the FA decided that it would be better to keep their supporters within the confines of Yorkshire rather than allow them to travel to another region.

Kick-off for that tie against Coventry City was delayed as a result of congestion outside the stadium. Neither that nor problems during Liverpool’s semi-final against Nottingham Forest the following season was sufficient to make the FA realise that Hillsborough was unfit for purpose. English football’s governing body had ample opportunity to intervene prior to April 15 1989 but not once did they do so. Their complacency was one of the root causes of the Hillsborough tragedy but there is still no admission to this effect, just an ongoing washing of hands that would make Pontius Pilate blush.

“The FA and English football has changed immeasurably, and learnt many lessons in the last 23 years. English football is now a much safer, more welcoming environment for supporters,” Bernstein said yesterday. In respect to the advances prompted by the Taylor Report he is, of course, correct. But in terms of the FA’s own treatment of supporters, which at times continues to border on the contemptuous, he allowed himself to appear woefully out of touch with the ongoing failings of the organization he heads.

This is the same FA, don’t forget, which last season ordered Liverpool and Everton to play an FA Cup semi-final at Wembley on a Saturday lunchtime despite rail improvements causing the cancellation of trains between Merseyside and London. The same FA which scheduled a third round tie between Aston Villa and Manchester United in January 2002 to begin at 7pm on a Sunday evening. United fans invaded the pitch three times. The same FA which staged the 2005 FA Cup semi-final between Blackburn Rovers and Arsenal at Cardiff’s Millennium Stadium with a 12.15pm kick-off. Blackburn supporters had to begin their journey at 5am.

In one respect, Bernstein is right about the FA changing. They now prioritize television demands and income streams over the needs of supporters, in the 1980s it was more about putting security before safety. The end result, though, is the same and that is unlikely to change unless and until the FA holds up its hands and acknowledges its own shabby role in the Hillsborough disaster, an admission that was sorely lacking in Bernstein’s statement.

http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/09/2 ... to-change/

If the clubs know that the FA are w@nkers (there is no doubt whatsoever) and that their decisions put fans lives at risk, then why dont they refuse to play the match until the safety issues have been sorted?

[maypaxvobiscum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q64TpA-uKY

Old video, but nice gesture from Ac Milan and Real Madrid.

[lakes10]

Just got say thanks to some clubs and their fans for the things that have done over the weekend.

Man City great banner and great sinning.
Reading/Tottenham standing ovation for YNWA
West Ham, great JF96 BANNER
Arsenal for sinning they got their justices for the 96 for 5mins before kick off and just befor the end of the game.
Aston Villa again nice banner
Chelsea...yes Chelsea Flag was moved around the ground with JF96 on it but it might have come fom the QPR fans first.

if i have missed any sorry.

[Boxscarf]

I see a certain section of United fans are still hell bent on singing about Hillsborough. It's high time anyone caught chanting vile chants about Munchen, Heysel, Hillsborough, the Bradford fire and any other tragedy were given a life-time suspension from attending football matches. When I go to matches I want to be present in an exciting and joyful atmosphere where banter is exchanged and vile chants, violence and racism are non-present. Liverpool and United are rivals, I just wish a minority of both sets of fans stopped these vile chants. They have no place in football and no place in society.

[The Hustler]

I see a certain section of United fans are still hell bent on singing about Hillsborough. It's high time anyone caught chanting vile chants about Munchen, Heysel, Hillsborough, the Bradford fire and any other tragedy were given a life-time suspension from attending football matches. When I go to matches I want to be present in an exciting and joyful atmosphere where banter is exchanged and vile chants, violence and racism are non-present. Liverpool and United are rivals, I just wish a minority of both sets of fans stopped these vile chants. They have no place in football and no place in society.

Its normally the fans with the smallest brains who are responsible for that.

[Thommo's perm]

I see a certain section of United fans are still hell bent on singing about Hillsborough. It's high time anyone caught chanting vile chants about Munchen, Heysel, Hillsborough, the Bradford fire and any other tragedy were given a life-time suspension from attending football matches. When I go to matches I want to be present in an exciting and joyful atmosphere where banter is exchanged and vile chants, violence and racism are non-present. Liverpool and United are rivals, I just wish a minority of both sets of fans stopped these vile chants. They have no place in football and no place in society.

The stewards and the police should warn them and if they persist eject the pr'icks

[Boxscarf]

The stewards and the police should warn them and if they persist eject the pr'icks

They should also have their season tickets revoked (if they have any) and they should be given a life-time ban from entering any football ground in the country. It embarrasses me that we have supporters who will quite happily chant 'Munchen' at United fans bearing in mind we have suffered tragedies ourselves. The same goes for United who at the weekend were still chanting about Hillsborough. Enough is enough.

[Boxscarf]

Its normally the fans with the smallest brains who are responsible for that.

It doesn't matter it looks bad on our club and then all Liverpool fans are tarnished with the same brush.

[The Hustler]

Its normally the fans with the smallest brains who are responsible for that.

It doesn't matter it looks bad on our club and then all Liverpool fans are tarnished with the same brush.

The Mancs are just as bad, if not far worse.

I was browsing their "redcafe" forum earlier, and they are debating at the moment whether or not to show respect with their silly chants, next weekend when they visit Anfield.

Talk about the lowest of the low.

[Kenny Kan]

Its normally the fans with the smallest brains who are responsible for that.

It doesn't matter it looks bad on our club and then all Liverpool fans are tarnished with the same brush.

The Mancs are just as bad, if not far worse.

I was browsing their "redcafe" forum earlier, and they are debating at the moment whether or not to show respect with their silly chants, next weekend when they visit Anfield.

Talk about the lowest of the low.

I've been browsing Redcafe too.

Most of, or a large prominent contingent over there, have plenty of empathy and compassion for the 96 and their families. And while there are a handful of scumc.unts on there who are well in the minority, they're getting lambasted by many of the others for their views.

http://www.redcafe.net/f7/e-petition-re ... dex19.html

Apparently there was a minority chant in the stretford end on Sat'day - but it's wise to remember they're a minority and the majority of them abhor these chants. They're not all idiotic brainless scum, and to tar them all like this is s.hit stirring.

They're our rivals, we hate them, they hate us. But even these people can draw the line between football and life & death.

Having said that, I'd be interested to see what their away contingent 'come-up' with on Sunday. Respect or vile, not sure tbh.

[The Hustler]

Yeah, go to their topic on " the enemy" and read there....

Most need a slap. Lol

[lakes10]

its a shame, looking atthe man u forums about 99% are backing the JF96 now but it only ever takes the 1% to be a ***** to make the whole club look like it.