Liverpool FC Forum

[red_guy]

I would actually sell him. For a good £60 Million we could get Aguero who is only 21 and one of the best strikers in the world already and he isnt injury prone.

Torres is one of my most favorite players of all time and it will hurt to see him leave but he is just too injury prone to be relied upon.

I don't think i'd agree with you. Harry Kewell and micheal owen = injury prone. Torres? well, he's the only recognized striker (Kuyt not included since his original role changed) and the team play with only 1 striker. He's an easy target for defenders. Getting knock more than 20 times in every single game definitely take a toll on him. He 's a superstriker, yes.. but definitely not a superman.

[Ben Patrick]

Liverpool striker Fernando Torres has confessed that he played through the pain barrier in his side's Europa League quarter final second leg against Benfica.

The Spain international hit a brace in the 4-1 rout at Anfield earlier this month but was carrying an injury he had sustained in the opening minutes of the match.

Four days later, the 26-year-old was taken off by Rafael Benitez after 65 minutes of his side's frustrating 1-1 draw with Birmingham City and it was confirmed last night that he will miss the remainder of the Reds' season after undergoing corrective knee surgery for the second time.

Following accusations that he prioritised his country's appearance at this summer's World Cup over his club career, Torres has issued a statement revealing the need to operate, and insists that it was not his first choice.

He said: "It's not true. We exhausted all the possibilities before arriving at the final one.

"There were three options. One was that the meniscus was okay, the second was that the problem was not clear and the third that the meniscus was affected.

"On Friday afternoon in Liverpool the scan I had cleared up the doubts and made us see that I would almost definitely have to have an operation.

"The meniscus was affected and the doctors said they had to operate.

"What's more, the injury happened in the second minute of the game against Benfica at Anfield and I played injured for 85 minutes.

"If I had been thinking about the World Cup and Spain I would have asked for a change.

"It wasn't like that, I wanted to get to the final of the Europa League with my team."

Torres was forced to make an 865-mile trip to Barcelona in order to go under the knife with all UK flights still currently grounded due to volcanic ash clouds.

"The trip was an adventure. I arrived exhausted at 8.30 on Sunday evening and barely had time to have a shower at the hotel before going to the clinic where Dr Cugat was waiting for me. Three hours after I had the meniscus operation," he added.

  -------------------------------------------------------

Pretty much settles all the arguments about when he was injured

It does mate.

That shows he was taken off when he was ok against Birmingham though doesnt it.

[parchpea]

Torres is a formidable player but my own opinion is he not robust enough to play as a lone striker in the Premiership. Give him a strike partner to take the weight off and he will be able to be more economical with his runs and wont take as many knocks. I think this is only way we can get him in the team on a week to week basis otherwise we will keep losing the lad to injury and with his ability and weekly salary we need him on that park.

[tubby]

I remember reading about Mourinho when he first arrived at Chelsea, how he gave each player a dossier detailing what their behaviour should be, what the new ethos was, talked about diet, preparation, mindset etc. The idea was that from the first minute of the first pre-season game they (Chelsea) were going absolutely all out to win four competitions. Failure simply would not be tolerated, even in pre season friendlies, and winning was a habit which had to be honed so it could be repeated even when all other aspects of the teams performance failed. During pre season they largely fielded their strongest teams, working on different set-ups within the game, working on situations where they scored first and sat, even aping situations where they were behind when they actually weren't. They pressed centrally to force teams wider and encourage them to knock it long into Carvallho and Terry's green zone, they worked tirelessly with the Makeleli axis in order to establish a bridgehead.

That was when he arrived but what about his last two years when all they won was an FA cup (and maybe a CC I cannot remember) surely he employed the same ethos and preparation? Get over the fixation on Mourinho he's never a long term solution.

I think our poor season has a lot to do with all the uncertainty with the Alonso transfer and we never quite got out of the funk. Hard to prepare your team when such a key player leaves in preseason.

Yeah, Mourinho only won two cups in his last two seasons at Chelsea, Rafa has won NOTHING for four seasons mate

Mourinho was able to go out and buy anyone pretty much and almost always got his first target. He also didn't have to raise funds before he could sell with a 1 in 1 out system as Rafa has been hampered with.

You can look at the total figure all you want but it will never make his spending and Mourinhos spending the same mate.

I never said anything about the spending mate, I concentrated on the FACTS that Mourinho won two cups in his last two years which was somehow seen as failure while Rafa has won nothing in four years and is somehow seen as a huge success.

I am not arguing about money again (at least not for a while  ) A manager has to get the best out of the players and money available ...... Rafa has in my view FAILED to do so.

But Saint it is linked to the spending. Do you think without the money he had to spend he would have won any of those cups in his time?

Even when he was at Porto they were one of the richest in their own domain so it's not like he has ever won anything on a shoestring budget.

Rafa on the other hand has had to make do with a wheel and deal approach. That directly affects how well your squad can perform mate and that considered Rafa has done well, especially if you look back to last season how close we pushed Utd and how well we done against the other top 4 teams.

Of course this season has been a disaster but we have still made a lot of progress. The reason we haven't won the league is because money has become so important in the modern game, without a sufficient supply you cannot win anything so it's not a huge surprise we were exposed this season.

[account deleted by request]

Of course this season has been a disaster but we have still made a lot of progress.

What progress have we made? We have gone from 2nd last season to 7th, which is 3 places lower than when Rafa came.

In the CL we have done progressively worse every year since 2007 (is this the progress you mentioned ) We went out of the FA CUP at the first hurdle the LC at the second and failed to get past the group stages of the CL.

What exciting new prospects have we discovered? We still have no plan "b", no alternative formation to cope with injuries, and the only thing we have learned is that without Torres we struggle to score (as if we didn't already know that) and that going into a season without a decent backup striker is as near to suicide as you can get...... even when you do have a new expensive fullback. 


Talk to the hand about money mate, I am not interested in arguing about it anymore.

[Emerald Red]

I would actually sell him. For a good £60 Million we could get Aguero who is only 21 and one of the best strikers in the world already and he isnt injury prone.

Torres is one of my most favorite players of all time and it will hurt to see him leave but he is just too injury prone to be relied upon.

You'd sell Torres? Have you lost the plot?

[account deleted by request]

In fact, no fack it, lets sell torres, gerrard and masch and let us build again with N'gog, Pacheco and Plessis. The Liverpool babes???

Might be more in line with our "expectations " anyway mate 

[rocky29]

yes i would sell him but only if we didnt get rich new owners this summer. Id go to inter milan say to them give us 6o million plus schneider who is very similar to alonso was. Then id buy  augero for 4omillion and luis fabiano for 20million as he is 29 so should be cheaper. I saw him in the confiderations cup and he was awesome. Anyone agree with my spending spree?

[bigmick]

People go on about me talking about the same things in every post, and then my point about the difference between heading into a pre season like we did this season, or preparing properly suddenly turns into another debate about money spent/the feeling that I'm w@nking over Mourinho.

Look, use another manager as your example if you want, but think of it this way. The league fixtures are out long before the season starts, and it's not as if we didn't know that we had Spurs Away in game one, and Villa at Home in game three. Equally, it was obvious Chelsea had a great chance to get off to a flyer (Hull at Home in game one etc etc). Now I'd be thinking that we need to be ready from minute one, because if we aren't then there's a serious danger we'll be out of it before it's even started (which obviously is exactly what happened).

My post wasn't a Rafa bash, nor a rant. I was simply making the point that as and when Rafa is in charge next season, I hope he gets us up and ready to get out of the blocks sharpish. This is doubly important for next season, as the press will be hunting him down in packs if we don't get off to a flyer. Nothing to do with money or Mourinho, everything to do with making sure he gives whatever players are at his disposal the maximum opportunity to perform to their potential.

[Benny The Noon]

yes i would sell him but only if we didnt get rich new owners this summer. Id go to inter milan say to them give us 6o million plus schneider who is very similar to alonso was. Then id buy  augero for 4omillion and luis fabiano for 20million as he is 29 so should be cheaper. I saw him in the confiderations cup and he was awesome. Anyone agree with my spending spree?

[bigmick]

On the subject of selling Torres, we shouldn't under anything like normal circumstances no. That said, a little like when Inter sold Ibrahimovic this season and get Samuel Eto plus forty million quid or whatever the feck it was (which allowed them to also buy Wesley Snijder and one or two others), sometimes you ahve to think of the unthinkable if it opens up a few other doors.

If for example we sold Torres and out of the proceeds bought David Villa (who I know very little about but everyone rates highly), Aguero and Nesta out of the proceeds, then it would hard to argue that we've come out of the deal worse off. Say Chelsea offered us Nicholas Anelka plus 90 million or something, or Man City offered us Tevez plus Steven Ireland plus 40 million or something stupid like that, you'd have to at least look at it. The key to any players thrown into the mix would have to be that they would get into our first choice eleven on merit, and that obviously we get a huge sum of money into the bargain.

I don't think we will be offered that though, so we should keep him.

[kazza]

I never said anything about the spending mate, I concentrated on the FACTS that Mourinho won two cups in his last two years which was somehow seen as failure while Rafa has won nothing in four years and is somehow seen as a huge success.

I am not arguing about money again (at least not for a while  ) A manager has to get the best out of the players and money available ...... Rafa has in my view FAILED to do so.

Mick said how awsome and dedicated Maureen's system was how dedicated he was to winning etc, I said well if he was so awsome and his system so awsome how come he did not win anything major in his last couple of years, meaning it was not his "winning ethos" but rather the players he had and someone picked up on that (and you quickly side stepped it), then you say Rafa did not win anything in the last four years. Now I realize you wish to back up your mate regardless, but surely you are merely arguing for arguing's sake.

I'll make it clearer, if Maureens preseason routines that Mick eluded too are so awsome and way beyond what Rafa might do (which was the spirit of the post), why did he not win anything of note (yes including FA cup) in his last two seasons. Surely this bit about "winning ethos" is eternal since the best manager in the world is doing the talking.

So much goes on that we never hear about yet "clever fans" seem to think they know more. I'm sure Rafa is much cleverer than many on here seem to give him credit for.

[bigmick]

On the subject of Mourinho (and I wish I'd never brought him into it, people can't seem to get past his name being mentioned at all) I think I'm right in saying that he was at Chelsea for three seasons and a very small bit. He won the league title in hsi first two seasons, didn't win it in his third and then left after four games or so of his fourth. I'm not sure it's realy accurate to say he won feck all for the last two seasons.

The point holds good though whether or not we are talking about Mourinho, Ferguson or anybody else. In the English Premiership you need to be ready from minute one of game one. Was it this season Arsenal won 6-1 at Everton on the opening day of the season or was it last? Momentum is crucial, and if you don't get some fairly sharpish you are running into "must win" games to stay in contention before the floodlights are needed for evening matches.

We've obviously made many mistakes this season, but this was the first and the biggest IMHO.

[Benny The Noon]

I thought this thread was about Torres and not another Rafa slagging or Maureen love fest ?

[bigmick]

I thought this thread was about Torres and not another Rafa slagging or Maureen love fest ?

It was and it is a thread about Torres. I commented about Torres earlier in the thread, and ANSWERED SOMEONE ELSE'S POINT visa vis the fact that it has been a horrow show of a season (his words). Foolishly, rather than say "yes you're right there" and leave it at a four word post, I said we were approaching the point when the post mortems as to where it all went wrong would begin.

I offered up one of the reasons, and once again foolishly as I should have known better, rather than saying "our pre season was a bag of w@nk" and leaving it at that, I took the time to explain my point, to develop it if you like. I offered up an example of how some other people do it, and contrasted it with the way we did it. Nowhere in any of my posts is there even a hint of a "Rafa bash" or a "Mourinho w@nkfest".

Because though the discussion doesn't fit into your infinitessimally narrow agenda, you decide to get involved, get the blankets out, and try and put a stop to things. When will I ever learn that to discuss anything with such people as yourself is utterly pointless when you are in one of those periods where you are giving yourself a wedgie all the time, which you currently are.