Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 am

I decided after the draw against Everton in the FA Cup yesterday, to have a look at our 1990/91 campaign - the last time we played our bitter rivals in the FA Cup. That was the season King Kenny walked out while we were top of the league. It was our last serious bid for the league, (disappointingly) finishing seven points behind Arsenal having lost six of our last 14 games.

From comparing the league games, the orders in which some of them came and also the cups, I think you'll find it was spookily similar to this campaign.

FA Cup - drew Everton, drew at Anfield and went to a replay. Played a second tier club in the third round : Blackburn (1990/91) and Preston NE (2008/09)

League Cup - beat Crewe, lost away next round to top flight opposition - Man Utd (1990/91), Tottenham (2008/09)

League

Beat Man Utd - 5th game (1990/91), 4th game (2008/09)
Beat Chelsea - 10th game (1990/91), 9th game (2008/09)
First defeat - 15th game, away to North London club Arsenal (1990/91), 11th game, away to North London club Tottenham (2008/09)

After 10 games

1990/91 : P10 W9 D1 L0 PTS 28
2008/09 : P10 W8 D2 L0 PTS 26

Games 14-22

1990/91 : P9 W3 D4 L2 PTS 13
2008/09 : P9 W3 D6 L0 PTS 15

And as we are now

1990/91* : P22 W15 D5 L2 PTS 50
2008/09 : P22 W13 D8 L1 PTS 47

*1990/91 Liverpool ended on 76 points, same as we did in 2007/08. We picked up 45 points 1st half of the season, just 31 in the 2nd half

In both 1990/91 and 2008/09 we started strongly, had a disappointing 2nd quarter of the season and who knows what will happen in the rest of this season. As mentioned above, we lost six of the last 14 league games of 1990/91 and despite seven wins in that spell, we dropped too many points and finished seven points behind Arsenal.

It was Kenny's last season in charge, resigning on 22nd February 1991 after the FA Cup replay 'thriller' (4-4) against our bitter rivals. Kenny managed something great in his first season in charge (the double) as did Rafa (Champions League) According to Wikipedia Kenny was in charge for 297 games, Rafa has been in charge for 273. Rafa has 16 league games, an FA Cup game/replay (minimum) and two more games in the Champions League (minimum) - somewhere near 300 games in charge IF he is still in charge by the end of the season. Maybe Kenny was helped to his league successes by the lack of European distraction, a shame for him as he was our last great manager.

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:46 am

i must admit your portrayal of stats does make for good reading owzat

dunno why so many on here slate you for it

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:53 am

Owzat wrote:I decided after the draw against Everton in the FA Cup yesterday, to have a look at our 1990/91 campaign - the last time we played our bitter rivals in the FA Cup. That was the season King Kenny walked out while we were top of the league. It was our last serious bid for the league, (disappointingly) finishing seven points behind Arsenal having lost six of our last 14 games.

From comparing the league games, the orders in which some of them came and also the cups, I think you'll find it was spookily similar to this campaign.

FA Cup - drew Everton, drew at Anfield and went to a replay. Played a second tier club in the third round : Blackburn (1990/91) and Preston NE (2008/09)

League Cup - beat Crewe, lost away next round to top flight opposition - Man Utd (1990/91), Tottenham (2008/09)

League

Beat Man Utd - 5th game (1990/91), 4th game (2008/09)
Beat Chelsea - 10th game (1990/91), 9th game (2008/09)
First defeat - 15th game, away to North London club Arsenal (1990/91), 11th game, away to North London club Tottenham (2008/09)

After 10 games

1990/91 : P10 W9 D1 L0 PTS 28
2008/09 : P10 W8 D2 L0 PTS 26

Games 14-22

1990/91 : P9 W3 D4 L2 PTS 13
2008/09 : P9 W3 D6 L0 PTS 15

And as we are now

1990/91* : P22 W15 D5 L2 PTS 50
2008/09 : P22 W13 D8 L1 PTS 47

*1990/91 Liverpool ended on 76 points, same as we did in 2007/08. We picked up 45 points 1st half of the season, just 31 in the 2nd half

In both 1990/91 and 2008/09 we started strongly, had a disappointing 2nd quarter of the season and who knows what will happen in the rest of this season. As mentioned above, we lost six of the last 14 league games of 1990/91 and despite seven wins in that spell, we dropped too many points and finished seven points behind Arsenal.

It was Kenny's last season in charge, resigning on 22nd February 1991 after the FA Cup replay 'thriller' (4-4) against our bitter rivals. Kenny managed something great in his first season in charge (the double) as did Rafa (Champions League) According to Wikipedia Kenny was in charge for 297 games, Rafa has been in charge for 273. Rafa has 16 league games, an FA Cup game/replay (minimum) and two more games in the Champions League (minimum) - somewhere near 300 games in charge IF he is still in charge by the end of the season. Maybe Kenny was helped to his league successes by the lack of European distraction, a shame for him as he was our last great manager.

SO whats your overview...? whats the findings from your research ? Any learning points ?

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:00 am

i think his post shows similarities to 1990/1 season

the thread title says - is history repeating itself !!

thats his point

by **The_Rock** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:23 am

Judge wrote:i think his post shows similarities to 1990/1 season

the thread title says - is history repeating itself !!

thats his point

Hey....that was not a dig at owzat.... I am just asking the same questions the idiot manager asked me when i interned as as a data analyst years ago....

Basically...u come out with a lot of stats (data)...u must have a brief overview to support your findings.... his word not mine...

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:25 am

by **Sabre** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:05 pm

Surely among the titles of Liverpool there must be 5 or 6 examples in which we weren't first of the table all the season?

We could conclude then that history is repeating itself?

No, we couldn't. We wouldn't bet our money based on that stats. Because we might lose it all. A stat saying that wouldn't be useful to predict, but at least yes to encourage.

by **GYBS** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:21 pm

has prince charles got married again ? is there a new pope ? ken and Deidre getting hitched again

by **tubby** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:19 pm

I took a

in 1990 and ill be taking another :censored:

today. History is repeating itself!

by **maguskwt** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:32 pm

bavlondon wrote:I took a in 1990 and ill be taking another today. History is repeating itself!

:

by **Judge** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:51 pm

bavlondon wrote:I took a bumming in 1990 and ill be taking another bumming today. History is repeating itself!

by **GYBS** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:27 pm

gotta like judges attempts all over the board to make people smile and drag people out of the negativity that is going around - for that you should be given a forum newkit knighthood for effort

by **tubby** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:36 pm

Judge wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I took a bumming in 1990 and ill be taking another bumming today. History is repeating itself!

Actually I had sh.it but whatever helps you get of on one mate.

by **Madmax** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:37 pm

Interesting statistics owzat. You never know history may repeat itself. Just hope it dont. When we won the champs league in 2005 i think there were sop many similarities in current situations to when to won it previously.

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Surely history can't be repeating itself? - 1990/1991 vs 2008/2009

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