Positivity VS Negativity

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Stu the Red » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:29 pm

To start this post, I've noticed the last few days the number of personal attacks on anyone who dares to say anything slightly critical has increased tenfold.

To be honest, the "holly-er than thou" attitude of these posters is just as boring as "sh*te" posted by some other members. To be quite honest, the "happy clappy" approach of the majority seems to have formed into some sort of clique that questions someones support because they don't share the same view. I understand, if someone keeps hammering home there opinion to "make someone agree" it can become tiresome... but the ganging up on other members... who really (from my personal point of view" don't get personal with other posters has just become daft.

I used to get slatted quite alot for having the opinion that if you're from an area, you feel it a little bit more. But not once (so far at least :D ) since coming back to the forum have I used that, or the, you don't go to the game reason as an excuse to have a go at someone.

The reason is quite simple, I TRIED to turn my back on everything for the last few years. I became totally disillusioned with a sport I've played and loved since I was four years old. A sport which provided with an income for a short while and a sport that is loved (even if not understood) by millions.

The money it costs to go to games home and away, europe (if your sides lucky to get there). The way people are so fickle and opinionated on something they have no clue about.

However due to it being such a massive part of my life I found this increasingly impossible... much like an addict who is trying to stay away from drugs, drink or gambling, keep shoving it in their face and they'll probably crack (no pun intended or offence meant to anyone).

I have a friend who trained with Manchester United duing the early 2000's when playing for Bury. We were discussing how good some of the players in the top league are/were and obviously how poor some of the players are. We were talking about the "levels of ability" of players and what makes some players good and some bad and some mediocre and how you can get players in the lower leagues who are better "footballers" than the lads in the premiership but are very average athletes and vice versa and what it takes to compete with better players than yourself and what makes you better than lesser players.

Talking to him and listening to his points got me thinking about the game in more detail than I ever did. I realised that alot of players in the game today don't have the ability level's they are made out to have. Where as some, are so drastically under rated I find it shocking. Having myself played against and with a good number of professionals I started to look at their attributes individually. IE one players touch, one players strength, pace etc and started to compare them to all the other players around the leagues.

Hence the reason there alot of players playing for sides outside the top ten that I think are superb footballers.

Now this leads me onto the thread title. Having looked at these players, (their attributes) and looked at the players signed by LFC over the last few years I don't believe that, me, being positive or negative, will have the slightest effect on the teams performances. I firmly believe that the squad and first XI is lacking in strength and depth and quality. For me, its all well and good to slag someone off when they are down, its great taking the plaudits when they do well. But the thing the great sides all do... is strive for perfection. To take constructive critisism when playing well or getting results is the best time to improve and recieve it. The reasoning is that if you improve you level at its best, its sure to improve your worst performances and over the course of a season, they're the ones that will win you a league title.

What really worries me, is the side has major weaknesses and has rode its luck at times so far. It worries me because I don't believe certain fans can see it and are setting the club up for a fall, and it worries me because I believe a man who is paid millions of pounds a year by the club is also fooled by this and its clouding his judgement.

Yet for some reason, because I'm not going to be lulled int to a false sense of security and think everything is great and rosey... I'm cast as negative, not a fan and blah de blah.

For me, if I didn't care about the club so much, I'd tell you you're all welcome to your average players like Johnson, Lucas, Skrytel and Henderson's of the world and to shove them up your backside... but its the fact I do care and want us to suceed so much that I can't bring myself to be happy about something (being top of the league) that won't last with this clear lack of quality at the club.

What I will say, is that the negativety comes from being able to see a players level of ability. Knowing they aren't good enough, its something that maybe isn't exciting as hoping that they are.
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby tadhger09 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:21 pm

While I appreciate your take on our current situation and your displeasure of certain players within the squad I think you must realise where we are at currently. With No European football this season and the fact that the team are after finishing 7th 8th and 6th in the league over the last 3 seasons and having FFP to contend with I don't see how we can attract world class players to our club presently.
tadhger09
LFC Basic Member
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:34 pm
Location: Ireland

Postby stmichael » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:35 pm

I think you're being harsh on Henderson Stu. He may not be a world beater but in the last six months he's been one of our best players. He's certainly better than a lot of the guys who get picked regularly for England such as Cleverley. Ross Barkley is a great talent but he's played three games in the Premier League ffs. Henderson has been under 21 captain for yonks and yet still doesn't get a call up.

On squad depth, we're certainly well equipped defensively now but I'm still worried at the other end. We still need another top draw attacker in January because if Sturridge gets a long term injury we don't really have a replacement who can stretch defences and get in behind teams. Same with Lucas. Joe Allen is a decent player but not a direct replacement.
User avatar
stmichael
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22644
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

Postby RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:27 pm

Seriously Stu, are you just here to start fights? Read the first paragraph and nothing more. Sheesh, the worlds gone soft.
"The S*n: The paper you wipe your ars.e on and more sh*t comes off the paper"
User avatar
RedAnt
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:33 pm
Location: Durham

Postby jacdaniel » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:31 pm

Some people mistake being pushy as been negative.  Maybe it is... I don't know.
But Rafa was well known for it.

On the trip home after winning the CL he apparently told some players they'd be leaving.
After the FA Cup win apparently he pointed out to Gerrard some of the things he did wrong during the game!!! 
Even Torres commented that Rafa always pushed him to find an extra half yard of pace.
He also constantly complained about the owners refusal to give him funds and the need for a new stadium.

That all might seem negative or never been happy but he wanted us to be winners and was constantly looking for improvement.
I see one or two of the "Negative" posters on this forum and i think its a similar situation.

At the end of the day, we all just want Liverpool to win.
"When you walk, through a storm, hold your head up high"
User avatar
jacdaniel
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:33 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:29 pm wrote:To start this post, I've noticed the last few days the number of personal attacks on anyone who dares to say anything slightly critical has increased tenfold.

To be honest, the "holly-er than thou" attitude of these posters is just as boring as "sh*te" posted by some other members. To be quite honest, the "happy clappy" approach of the majority seems to have formed into some sort of clique that questions someones support because they don't share the same view. I understand, if someone keeps hammering home there opinion to "make someone agree" it can become tiresome... but the ganging up on other members... who really (from my personal point of view" don't get personal with other posters has just become daft.

I used to get slatted quite alot for having the opinion that if you're from an area, you feel it a little bit more. But not once (so far at least :D ) since coming back to the forum have I used that, or the, you don't go to the game reason as an excuse to have a go at someone.

The reason is quite simple, I TRIED to turn my back on everything for the last few years. I became totally disillusioned with a sport I've played and loved since I was four years old. A sport which provided with an income for a short while and a sport that is loved (even if not understood) by millions.

The money it costs to go to games home and away, europe (if your sides lucky to get there). The way people are so fickle and opinionated on something they have no clue about.

However due to it being such a massive part of my life I found this increasingly impossible... much like an addict who is trying to stay away from drugs, drink or gambling, keep shoving it in their face and they'll probably crack (no pun intended or offence meant to anyone).

I have a friend who trained with Manchester United duing the early 2000's when playing for Bury. We were discussing how good some of the players in the top league are/were and obviously how poor some of the players are. We were talking about the "levels of ability" of players and what makes some players good and some bad and some mediocre and how you can get players in the lower leagues who are better "footballers" than the lads in the premiership but are very average athletes and vice versa and what it takes to compete with better players than yourself and what makes you better than lesser players.

Talking to him and listening to his points got me thinking about the game in more detail than I ever did. I realised that alot of players in the game today don't have the ability level's they are made out to have. Where as some, are so drastically under rated I find it shocking. Having myself played against and with a good number of professionals I started to look at their attributes individually. IE one players touch, one players strength, pace etc and started to compare them to all the other players around the leagues.

Hence the reason there alot of players playing for sides outside the top ten that I think are superb footballers.

Now this leads me onto the thread title. Having looked at these players, (their attributes) and looked at the players signed by LFC over the last few years I don't believe that, me, being positive or negative, will have the slightest effect on the teams performances. I firmly believe that the squad and first XI is lacking in strength and depth and quality. For me, its all well and good to slag someone off when they are down, its great taking the plaudits when they do well. But the thing the great sides all do... is strive for perfection. To take constructive critisism when playing well or getting results is the best time to improve and recieve it. The reasoning is that if you improve you level at its best, its sure to improve your worst performances and over the course of a season, they're the ones that will win you a league title.

What really worries me, is the side has major weaknesses and has rode its luck at times so far. It worries me because I don't believe certain fans can see it and are setting the club up for a fall, and it worries me because I believe a man who is paid millions of pounds a year by the club is also fooled by this and its clouding his judgement.

Yet for some reason, because I'm not going to be lulled int to a false sense of security and think everything is great and rosey... I'm cast as negative, not a fan and blah de blah.

For me, if I didn't care about the club so much, I'd tell you you're all welcome to your average players like Johnson, Lucas, Skrytel and Henderson's of the world and to shove them up your backside... but its the fact I do care and want us to suceed so much that I can't bring myself to be happy about something (being top of the league) that won't last with this clear lack of quality at the club.

What I will say, is that the negativety comes from being able to see a players level of ability. Knowing they aren't good enough, its something that maybe isn't exciting as hoping that they are.

What you may not realise (not sure if you've been reading the forum prior to rejoining) but certain individual posters have consistently and regularly been negative. I'm all for any opinion being posted as long as there is some level of balance, i.e. not derailing EVERY thread with the same opinion over and over again.

That is why you may be seeing a bad reaction to negativity, most of us have been fed up with every thread either attacking the club, manager or players. So what naturally is happening is any negative opinion gets peoples backs up because it is all we have seen and read in the last few months.
User avatar
SouthCoastShankly
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6076
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: West Sussex

Postby RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:44 pm

Some posts are designed to divide the forum. Take a look at the first paragraph of the OP again. It demand people choose the side they feel they fit ie positive or negative. Some people like attention, be it conflict or other. This isn't Stu's first post designed this way.
"The S*n: The paper you wipe your ars.e on and more sh*t comes off the paper"
User avatar
RedAnt
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:33 pm
Location: Durham

Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:55 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:29 pm wrote:To start this post, I've noticed the last few days the number of personal attacks on anyone who dares to say anything slightly critical has increased tenfold.

To be honest, the "holly-er than thou" attitude of these posters is just as boring as "sh*te" posted by some other members. To be quite honest, the "happy clappy" approach of the majority seems to have formed into some sort of clique that questions someones support because they don't share the same view. I understand, if someone keeps hammering home there opinion to "make someone agree" it can become tiresome... but the ganging up on other members... who really (from my personal point of view" don't get personal with other posters has just become daft.

I used to get slatted quite alot for having the opinion that if you're from an area, you feel it a little bit more. But not once (so far at least :D ) since coming back to the forum have I used that, or the, you don't go to the game reason as an excuse to have a go at someone.

The reason is quite simple, I TRIED to turn my back on everything for the last few years. I became totally disillusioned with a sport I've played and loved since I was four years old. A sport which provided with an income for a short while and a sport that is loved (even if not understood) by millions.

The money it costs to go to games home and away, europe (if your sides lucky to get there). The way people are so fickle and opinionated on something they have no clue about.

However due to it being such a massive part of my life I found this increasingly impossible... much like an addict who is trying to stay away from drugs, drink or gambling, keep shoving it in their face and they'll probably crack (no pun intended or offence meant to anyone).

I have a friend who trained with Manchester United duing the early 2000's when playing for Bury. We were discussing how good some of the players in the top league are/were and obviously how poor some of the players are. We were talking about the "levels of ability" of players and what makes some players good and some bad and some mediocre and how you can get players in the lower leagues who are better "footballers" than the lads in the premiership but are very average athletes and vice versa and what it takes to compete with better players than yourself and what makes you better than lesser players.

Talking to him and listening to his points got me thinking about the game in more detail than I ever did. I realised that alot of players in the game today don't have the ability level's they are made out to have. Where as some, are so drastically under rated I find it shocking. Having myself played against and with a good number of professionals I started to look at their attributes individually. IE one players touch, one players strength, pace etc and started to compare them to all the other players around the leagues.

Hence the reason there alot of players playing for sides outside the top ten that I think are superb footballers.

Now this leads me onto the thread title. Having looked at these players, (their attributes) and looked at the players signed by LFC over the last few years I don't believe that, me, being positive or negative, will have the slightest effect on the teams performances. I firmly believe that the squad and first XI is lacking in strength and depth and quality. For me, its all well and good to slag someone off when they are down, its great taking the plaudits when they do well. But the thing the great sides all do... is strive for perfection. To take constructive critisism when playing well or getting results is the best time to improve and recieve it. The reasoning is that if you improve you level at its best, its sure to improve your worst performances and over the course of a season, they're the ones that will win you a league title.

What really worries me, is the side has major weaknesses and has rode its luck at times so far. It worries me because I don't believe certain fans can see it and are setting the club up for a fall, and it worries me because I believe a man who is paid millions of pounds a year by the club is also fooled by this and its clouding his judgement.

Yet for some reason, because I'm not going to be lulled int to a false sense of security and think everything is great and rosey... I'm cast as negative, not a fan and blah de blah.

For me, if I didn't care about the club so much, I'd tell you you're all welcome to your average players like Johnson, Lucas, Skrytel and Henderson's of the world and to shove them up your backside... but its the fact I do care and want us to suceed so much that I can't bring myself to be happy about something (being top of the league) that won't last with this clear lack of quality at the club.

What I will say, is that the negativety comes from being able to see a players level of ability. Knowing they aren't good enough, its something that maybe isn't exciting as hoping that they are.


Fuck off Stu ,you just got bored with Golf.  :;):

Seriously though,Let me fill you in on how the forum has fared since last season .There was little to shout about albeit from Coutinho and the form some seen evolving in the latter end of the season,and prior to Suarez's unrealistic and downright ridiculous attempts at freeing himself from his contract then we also seen a striker who could rightly be described as a phenomenal player.

So we listened to the familiar denigration of the team being universally stamped with the 'Not good enough' label ,and we read countless posts casting doubt on the manager and the owners ,all arguably tinged with a certain degree of truth I might add....... Lets just say this forum was not a good place to be during this time ,in fact if I said certain posters absolutely thrived through this period with thread after thread of posting sweeping generalisations based around the thoughts of the worst and most loathed tabloids in the British Media,then if I proffered the term 'LIKE A PIG IN SHIT' in an attempt to describe the extent some posters actually revelled in this ,it certainly wouldn't be an exaggeration.

So now to this season ,a fresh start and a chance to eradicate our misgivings from last . Top of the League,three clean sheets,the new lads have started well and we're working as a unit . Daniel Sturridge has been the match winner in every match ,so Suarez's absence hasn't had the debilitating effect on the team some were sadly hoping for.

Its killing the Mancs that we have been top of the league through the International break ,and we haven't even played anywhere near to our potential save the first half at Villa. All sufficient reasons to see the compilations of threads affording us plaudits for our fantastic and 100% start to the new season appearing in there literal droves .

So show me those threads Stu ? Or if possible maybe prior to posting a reason why some posters deem negativity as the way to go ,you should consider why there exists such a fucking dearth of posts eulogizing our perfect start to this season.
Image
User avatar
RED BEERGOGGLES
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8297
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby Igor Zidane » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:30 pm

F.uck you stu yer negative tw@t. Anywhoooooo I'll get back to you in this thread after the Swansea game . I want to see how we fare after the international break . This for me will be a good marker for the season til chrimbo . We have an opportunity to get some good points on the board . By the by , you were wrong about Lucas before and your still wrong . He's vital to the team and there's no cover for him ,that's my worry .
UP THE PURPS !!!
Image
https://www.colfc.co.uk/
Igor Zidane
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7796
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby Stu the Red » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:38 pm

RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:Some posts are designed to divide the forum. Take a look at the first paragraph of the OP again. It demand people choose the side they feel they fit ie positive or negative. Some people like attention, be it conflict or other. This isn't Stu's first post designed this way.


Am not being funny you nugget... If you don't have anything better to do than sit here complaining about peoples opinions who differ from your own and complaining about every thread that gets started out of some self righteous belief that its "not worthy" then why are you bothering to "waste your time" posting in them?

Stop trying to turn the place into RAWK, do yourself a favour, go out and get a bird. :D
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby Stu the Red » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Fuck off Stu ,you just got bored with Golf.  :;):


B0ll0cks... he's onto me :oops:

:D
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby Stu the Red » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Igor Zidane » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:30 pm wrote:F.uck you stu yer negative tw@t. Anywhoooooo I'll get back to you in this thread after the Swansea game . I want to see how we fare after the international break . This for me will be a good marker for the season til chrimbo . We have an opportunity to get some good points on the board . By the by , you were wrong about Lucas before and your still wrong . He's vital to the team and there's no cover for him ,that's my worry .



Mate, I disagree... I've never been wrong about Lucas in my opinion.

Never said the lads anything other than an average player to decent player at best. All I heard when he first signed was that he was dog turd :D Then I heard people banging on about him being world class. Fact is, the truth has always been somewhere in the middle. Average to decent, who could do a job if you lose your best players through injury or suspension. He gives 100% every game without a doubt, that doesn't mean that over 38 games he has the required quality to play in a league winning side, you would need a pretty exceptional side to win a league with players of his quality as regulars.

I've heard people on here saying he's better than Carrick... I'm sorry but I'm no Carrick lover... (a player for me who's greatly over hyped and crumbles when a marked tightly) but he's a far better and more complete player than Lucas ever has been, or ever will be.
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Postby supersub » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:07 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:44 pm wrote:
Igor Zidane » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:30 pm wrote:F.uck you stu yer negative tw@t. Anywhoooooo I'll get back to you in this thread after the Swansea game . I want to see how we fare after the international break . This for me will be a good marker for the season til chrimbo . We have an opportunity to get some good points on the board . By the by , you were wrong about Lucas before and your still wrong . He's vital to the team and there's no cover for him ,that's my worry .



Mate, I disagree... I've never been wrong about Lucas in my opinion.

Never said the lads anything other than an average player to decent player at best. All I heard when he first signed was that he was dog turd :D Then I heard people banging on about him being world class. Fact is, the truth has always been somewhere in the middle. Average to decent, who could do a job if you lose your best players through injury or suspension. He gives 100% every game without a doubt, that doesn't mean that over 38 games he has the required quality to play in a league winning side, you would need a pretty exceptional side to win a league with players of his quality as regulars.

I've heard people on here saying he's better than Carrick... I'm sorry but I'm no Carrick lover... (a player for me who's greatly over hyped and crumbles when a marked tightly) but he's a far better and more complete player than Lucas ever has been, or ever will be.



Are you the s.murph who thought Dean Ashton was the dogsbo((ocks when we were interested in Torres back in 2007 :laugh:
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW SHINING AT THE END OF EVERY DAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
User avatar
supersub
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 7276
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: knackers yard

Postby RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:10 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:38 pm wrote:
RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:Some posts are designed to divide the forum. Take a look at the first paragraph of the OP again. It demand people choose the side they feel they fit ie positive or negative. Some people like attention, be it conflict or other. This isn't Stu's first post designed this way.


Am not being funny you nugget... If you don't have anything better to do than sit here complaining about peoples opinions who differ from your own and complaining about every thread that gets started out of some self righteous belief that its "not worthy" then why are you bothering to "waste your time" posting in them?

Stop trying to turn the place into RAWK, do yourself a favour, go out and get a bird. :D


A nice example, thank you. I don't believe I said anything insulting to you yet you dive in like a ninja, with your insults and references to my personal life that you can't possibly know anything of. Fitting, ain't it? Just like the wisdom you spout on here which you know nothing of either.

You reappear on the scene during an international break, have nothing to talk about, and so start dismantling the club from bottom to top. To very little point either. We've done all the transfer talk during the transfer window. You missed it all, granted, and maybe want your say. But most of us prefer to talk about how well we're doing. In recent years we've not had much.

We're top. Three wins. Non conceded. I'm not childish enough to throw insults, but a real fan would enjoy it and let it ride, ride with it. Not doom it to failure, nor talk if how useless we are.
"The S*n: The paper you wipe your ars.e on and more sh*t comes off the paper"
User avatar
RedAnt
 
Posts: 2345
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:33 pm
Location: Durham

Postby Stu the Red » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:29 pm

RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:10 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:38 pm wrote:
RedAnt » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:Some posts are designed to divide the forum. Take a look at the first paragraph of the OP again. It demand people choose the side they feel they fit ie positive or negative. Some people like attention, be it conflict or other. This isn't Stu's first post designed this way.


Am not being funny you nugget... If you don't have anything better to do than sit here complaining about peoples opinions who differ from your own and complaining about every thread that gets started out of some self righteous belief that its "not worthy" then why are you bothering to "waste your time" posting in them?

Stop trying to turn the place into RAWK, do yourself a favour, go out and get a bird. :D


A nice example, thank you. I don't believe I said anything insulting to you yet you dive in like a ninja, with your insults and references to my personal life that you can't possibly know anything of. Fitting, ain't it? Just like the wisdom you spout on here which you know nothing of either.

You reappear on the scene during an international break, have nothing to talk about, and so start dismantling the club from bottom to top. To very little point either. We've done all the transfer talk during the transfer window. You missed it all, granted, and maybe want your say. But most of us prefer to talk about how well we're doing. In recent years we've not had much.

We're top. Three wins. Non conceded. I'm not childish enough to throw insults, but a real fan would enjoy it and let it ride, ride with it. Not doom it to failure, nor talk if how useless we are.


Oh yeah sorry lad...

I'll be a "real fan" from now on then :laugh:

You wouldn't know a real fan if one jumped up and bit your b0ll0cks off :no

Like I said in the other five topics you've single handedly tried to turn into slagging matches. If you don't like the topic or the topic starter, don't post in the thread.
Stu the Red
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Next

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kazza and 84 guests