Positive you say? what is this crazy word you have just made up you complete nutter!
Only POSITIVE views in here please, surely we need a place to raise our spirits when not shovelling through all the depressing ramblings of ar.se on here.
I think rafa benitez is awesome.
Your turn
Positive thread - Come here to verbally rape the team
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by Bermenstein » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:09 pm
Come with me and join the Dark Negative Side Goatboy!!
Give in to your Hate!
Give in to your Hate!
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by Effes » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:10 pm
GOAT_2.0 wrote:Positive you say? what is this crazy word you have just made up you complete nutter!
Only POSITIVE views in here please, surely we need a place to raise our spirits when not shovelling through all the depressing ramblings of ar.se on here.
I think rafa benitez is awesome.
Your turn
whopper
Matt McQueen - Liverpool 1892-1928.
Only professional to - play in goal (41 appearances), Defence, Midfield, Striker, and later be Director and then to be Manager (winning a Championship) - at one club
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by GOAT_2.0 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:15 pm
Pah knew it was too much to ask. Ah well I shall continue
Nice little article from tomkins
TOMKINS: REDS DOING SHANKLY PROUD
09 January 2009
So 2009 started how 2008 left off: Liverpool playing some free-flowing attacking football, keeping it tight at the back and winning games.
In the 50th year of Bill Shankly's appointment, it was fitting that the Reds set the tone for the New Year at the erstwhile home of the man who started the ball rolling at modern Liverpool. Shanks was at Preston for 14 years as a player, and at Liverpool for 15 years as manager, so these clubs were his two great loves.
While all managers are unique, and you can never speak for anyone else (let alone the dearly departed), I can't help but sense an increasing correlation between the teams of Shankly and Benítez, with the former surely impressed by the team created by the latter. I made the point in my book Dynasty, but even just a few months on from its release I can feel the comparison strengthening.
Watching from his seat in the Gods, Shanks would surely have purred at the way the Reds played in the first 60 minutes at Deepdale, and then the way they battled for the remaining 30 as the game descended into an old-fashioned British cup tie.
Despite cultural differences of the managers, not to mention the radical dissimilarity in the eras, there seems a shared DNA between the teams of Shankly and Benítez.
Both hugely obsessive about the game, Shankly's style was characterised by intensity, motivation and sharp words, while Benítez is seen as more studious and methodical. And yet both built sides replete with similar characteristics.
The passing, movement, commitment, character and intensity of the current side is something Shankly could come to expect from his own. Neither man had the most money to spend when compared with all his rivals, but both were sticklers for passion, dedication, professionalism and unity.
Both coveted never-say-die winners, but weren't afraid to field thinking midfielders, tricky wingers, canny strikers or forward-thinking defenders; there just wasn't room for showboaters or shirkers.
Neither had a team lauded by the purists as the prettiest, but each shaped a side mixing a machine-like relentlessness with intelligent passing football.
Of course, it's too early to compare achievements. One team is still a work in progress, although if Liverpool can land the league title this season (and despite the great position there's a long way to go), it will mean both ended a long Liverpool wait to be champions in his 5th season.
That would be a wonderful piece of symmetry.
Even if it doesn't work out for Benítez this season, it seems that the Reds will at least go close. But his team is competing against the most expensive squad ever assembled (beaten Champions League finalists no less, now managed by a World Cup winner), as well the current European/Premier League champions. Even Shankly may have struggled to break such a stronghold.
It's taken a few years to make Liverpool genuine title challengers, but I never saw any realistic shortcuts. If anything, Liverpool are doing even better this year than I expected.
A few years ago I was arguing that Benítez was right to build with a series of talented but moderately-priced players, who were mostly young, than to splurge big money on a couple of mega-signings, given the overall weakness of the squad; a weakness now proved with only Hyypia, Gerrard and Carragher remaining, and the team looking better than ever.
While mistakes were made along the way (as is the case with any manager), there's a beauty to the way the side has been built, bit by bit.
Two or three expensive adornments have been made in the last 18 months, with Torres and Mascherano seamless additions to the first XI, but they were the right players at the right price at the right time. The two aforementioned players were not on the market, or not ready for the move, in 2005 or 2006. The manager was right to wait.
Crucially, Benítez has also ‘traded up' by making profits on earlier signings like Peter Crouch and Momo Sissoko, to make more money available to reinvest. It's all part of a canny squad building programme, where a manager adds a few pieces, keeps the ones that fit and replaces those that don't gel.
I also argued that Rafa had to be allowed time to have his youngest signings come through the ranks. The perfect example of this is Emiliano Insua.
In the summer, it was unclear if he was quite ready, even if his talent was undeniable. It would have been a massive gamble to start the season with a 19-year-old rookie at left-back, with Fabio Aurelio's career still dogged by niggling injuries. So the purchase of Andrea Dossena made a lot of sense to me, and I still feel he can prove his critics wrong.
But the advantage for Insua is one that was true of players like Ian Rush and Ronnie Whelan almost 30 years ago: time to develop in the reserves, with no heavy price tag, no reputation to live up to and no immediate need to be pressed into first team action, where every mistake will be blown out of proportion.
Insua has been able to take a more organic path to the first team: learning about Liverpool's tactics, English football, life in this country and the language over a two-year period; getting the odd taste of Premier League life here and there, usually in end of season matches when the pressure was off, before resuming his education in the second string. It's the old Liverpool way.
Dossena had no such luxuries. He may have more experience as a footballer, with recent caps for Italy, but Insua has had the time to learn gradually and grow into the role. (It may just be my eyes, but he seems to have literally grown since first arriving as a 17-year-old.)
By contrast, Dossena has been thrown in at the deep end, and like Patrice Evra in his first six months at United, has found the relentless pace of English football a big culture shock.
Seeing as Benítez only really got down to procuring talented teenagers in 2005/2006, it was always going to take a while for the best of the crop to make the grade. Indeed, the vast majority won't, simply because these days there are already several world-class players in the first team, and a plethora of internationals.
But it was always going to be an important part of building the squad, given that the very best stand a good chance of succeeding, and was why the manager had to be afforded that time. These kids are not the sole reason behind the Reds' improved form this season, but they've played a part.
Now, if Damien Plessis has to come into midfield, or Krisztian Nemeth got a game from the bench, we won't be panicked by the appearance of a relative rookie. Nabil El Zhar, who looked very raw in his first few cameos dating back to 2006, now looks at home in the first team if called upon. In a year or two, he could be a regular.
As for the FA Cup, it seems destined to challenge the Reds this season. More than embarrassments, it can be injuries, tough battles and replays that cause the major problems, particularly when the Champions League resumes.
A lot has changed since 2005, when Benítez was ludicrously castigated for resting key players at Burnley. Back then he didn't have the squad to compete on all fronts, and his decision was vindicated by the Champions League success just months later. Liverpool can now cope far better with the additional fixtures.
For me, Benítez has only ever concentrated on the most pressing situation at hand, whilst trying to have a longer-term plan in terms of keeping players fresh. While you need to take it one game at a time, there has to be an idea of how to get the best out of the players over ten months, not just the next fixture.
Last season, he had no leeway at Reading; the Reds had to win in the Champions League a few days later or that part of the season was definitely over, whereas in the league you always get further bites at the cherry. This was lazily put down to Benítez's supposed preference for European competition, but it was obviously just the situation.
Of course, building momentum is also important. And cups can play a part.
I'd much rather the Reds go out of the FA Cup than have it impinge on the league campaign, but you cannot cherry-pick which competitions you will do well in; a few bad results in the league and Champions League, and suddenly the FA Cup could provide the best chance of silverware.
In 2005/06, the FA Cup run helped the league form, as a head of steam was built up. But perhaps it was no coincidence that Benfica had knocked Liverpool out of the Champions League at the round of 16; otherwise, with just too many fixtures, a team can run out of steam.
Sometimes you need the games coming fairly thick and fast, other times you need the break, for freshness or to get injured players back. The thing is, you can never tell for sure if either situation will benefit or hinder you. A manager is not a psychic; all he can do is make educated guesses, and try to spread his eggs across various baskets.
So the mouth-watering tie with Everton does not come without problems. It doesn't seem ideal to me to be playing such a high-intensity cup game at this stage of the season; it almost becomes a cup final in itself.
The trouble with derbies is the added significance they can take on, disproportionate to what is at stake (in that you still only get three points/to the next round if you win). If you win, it's an even bigger boost to the confidence, but if you lose, it can drag everyone down more than defeat in a ‘standard' fixture.
It's not that I fear Everton, more the fallout from a tough battle. It will be harder for the manager to rest key players; if he feels he has to, there may be some discontent. But Liverpool have a Premier League game at Wigan a few days later. As much as I want to see victory over Everton, I'd be happy to lose that FA Cup battle if it meant winning the overall war.
After all, bragging rights don't get much better than being able to sing ‘Campioni', do they?
Nice little article from tomkins
TOMKINS: REDS DOING SHANKLY PROUD
09 January 2009
So 2009 started how 2008 left off: Liverpool playing some free-flowing attacking football, keeping it tight at the back and winning games.
In the 50th year of Bill Shankly's appointment, it was fitting that the Reds set the tone for the New Year at the erstwhile home of the man who started the ball rolling at modern Liverpool. Shanks was at Preston for 14 years as a player, and at Liverpool for 15 years as manager, so these clubs were his two great loves.
While all managers are unique, and you can never speak for anyone else (let alone the dearly departed), I can't help but sense an increasing correlation between the teams of Shankly and Benítez, with the former surely impressed by the team created by the latter. I made the point in my book Dynasty, but even just a few months on from its release I can feel the comparison strengthening.
Watching from his seat in the Gods, Shanks would surely have purred at the way the Reds played in the first 60 minutes at Deepdale, and then the way they battled for the remaining 30 as the game descended into an old-fashioned British cup tie.
Despite cultural differences of the managers, not to mention the radical dissimilarity in the eras, there seems a shared DNA between the teams of Shankly and Benítez.
Both hugely obsessive about the game, Shankly's style was characterised by intensity, motivation and sharp words, while Benítez is seen as more studious and methodical. And yet both built sides replete with similar characteristics.
The passing, movement, commitment, character and intensity of the current side is something Shankly could come to expect from his own. Neither man had the most money to spend when compared with all his rivals, but both were sticklers for passion, dedication, professionalism and unity.
Both coveted never-say-die winners, but weren't afraid to field thinking midfielders, tricky wingers, canny strikers or forward-thinking defenders; there just wasn't room for showboaters or shirkers.
Neither had a team lauded by the purists as the prettiest, but each shaped a side mixing a machine-like relentlessness with intelligent passing football.
Of course, it's too early to compare achievements. One team is still a work in progress, although if Liverpool can land the league title this season (and despite the great position there's a long way to go), it will mean both ended a long Liverpool wait to be champions in his 5th season.
That would be a wonderful piece of symmetry.
Even if it doesn't work out for Benítez this season, it seems that the Reds will at least go close. But his team is competing against the most expensive squad ever assembled (beaten Champions League finalists no less, now managed by a World Cup winner), as well the current European/Premier League champions. Even Shankly may have struggled to break such a stronghold.
It's taken a few years to make Liverpool genuine title challengers, but I never saw any realistic shortcuts. If anything, Liverpool are doing even better this year than I expected.
A few years ago I was arguing that Benítez was right to build with a series of talented but moderately-priced players, who were mostly young, than to splurge big money on a couple of mega-signings, given the overall weakness of the squad; a weakness now proved with only Hyypia, Gerrard and Carragher remaining, and the team looking better than ever.
While mistakes were made along the way (as is the case with any manager), there's a beauty to the way the side has been built, bit by bit.
Two or three expensive adornments have been made in the last 18 months, with Torres and Mascherano seamless additions to the first XI, but they were the right players at the right price at the right time. The two aforementioned players were not on the market, or not ready for the move, in 2005 or 2006. The manager was right to wait.
Crucially, Benítez has also ‘traded up' by making profits on earlier signings like Peter Crouch and Momo Sissoko, to make more money available to reinvest. It's all part of a canny squad building programme, where a manager adds a few pieces, keeps the ones that fit and replaces those that don't gel.
I also argued that Rafa had to be allowed time to have his youngest signings come through the ranks. The perfect example of this is Emiliano Insua.
In the summer, it was unclear if he was quite ready, even if his talent was undeniable. It would have been a massive gamble to start the season with a 19-year-old rookie at left-back, with Fabio Aurelio's career still dogged by niggling injuries. So the purchase of Andrea Dossena made a lot of sense to me, and I still feel he can prove his critics wrong.
But the advantage for Insua is one that was true of players like Ian Rush and Ronnie Whelan almost 30 years ago: time to develop in the reserves, with no heavy price tag, no reputation to live up to and no immediate need to be pressed into first team action, where every mistake will be blown out of proportion.
Insua has been able to take a more organic path to the first team: learning about Liverpool's tactics, English football, life in this country and the language over a two-year period; getting the odd taste of Premier League life here and there, usually in end of season matches when the pressure was off, before resuming his education in the second string. It's the old Liverpool way.
Dossena had no such luxuries. He may have more experience as a footballer, with recent caps for Italy, but Insua has had the time to learn gradually and grow into the role. (It may just be my eyes, but he seems to have literally grown since first arriving as a 17-year-old.)
By contrast, Dossena has been thrown in at the deep end, and like Patrice Evra in his first six months at United, has found the relentless pace of English football a big culture shock.
Seeing as Benítez only really got down to procuring talented teenagers in 2005/2006, it was always going to take a while for the best of the crop to make the grade. Indeed, the vast majority won't, simply because these days there are already several world-class players in the first team, and a plethora of internationals.
But it was always going to be an important part of building the squad, given that the very best stand a good chance of succeeding, and was why the manager had to be afforded that time. These kids are not the sole reason behind the Reds' improved form this season, but they've played a part.
Now, if Damien Plessis has to come into midfield, or Krisztian Nemeth got a game from the bench, we won't be panicked by the appearance of a relative rookie. Nabil El Zhar, who looked very raw in his first few cameos dating back to 2006, now looks at home in the first team if called upon. In a year or two, he could be a regular.
As for the FA Cup, it seems destined to challenge the Reds this season. More than embarrassments, it can be injuries, tough battles and replays that cause the major problems, particularly when the Champions League resumes.
A lot has changed since 2005, when Benítez was ludicrously castigated for resting key players at Burnley. Back then he didn't have the squad to compete on all fronts, and his decision was vindicated by the Champions League success just months later. Liverpool can now cope far better with the additional fixtures.
For me, Benítez has only ever concentrated on the most pressing situation at hand, whilst trying to have a longer-term plan in terms of keeping players fresh. While you need to take it one game at a time, there has to be an idea of how to get the best out of the players over ten months, not just the next fixture.
Last season, he had no leeway at Reading; the Reds had to win in the Champions League a few days later or that part of the season was definitely over, whereas in the league you always get further bites at the cherry. This was lazily put down to Benítez's supposed preference for European competition, but it was obviously just the situation.
Of course, building momentum is also important. And cups can play a part.
I'd much rather the Reds go out of the FA Cup than have it impinge on the league campaign, but you cannot cherry-pick which competitions you will do well in; a few bad results in the league and Champions League, and suddenly the FA Cup could provide the best chance of silverware.
In 2005/06, the FA Cup run helped the league form, as a head of steam was built up. But perhaps it was no coincidence that Benfica had knocked Liverpool out of the Champions League at the round of 16; otherwise, with just too many fixtures, a team can run out of steam.
Sometimes you need the games coming fairly thick and fast, other times you need the break, for freshness or to get injured players back. The thing is, you can never tell for sure if either situation will benefit or hinder you. A manager is not a psychic; all he can do is make educated guesses, and try to spread his eggs across various baskets.
So the mouth-watering tie with Everton does not come without problems. It doesn't seem ideal to me to be playing such a high-intensity cup game at this stage of the season; it almost becomes a cup final in itself.
The trouble with derbies is the added significance they can take on, disproportionate to what is at stake (in that you still only get three points/to the next round if you win). If you win, it's an even bigger boost to the confidence, but if you lose, it can drag everyone down more than defeat in a ‘standard' fixture.
It's not that I fear Everton, more the fallout from a tough battle. It will be harder for the manager to rest key players; if he feels he has to, there may be some discontent. But Liverpool have a Premier League game at Wigan a few days later. As much as I want to see victory over Everton, I'd be happy to lose that FA Cup battle if it meant winning the overall war.
After all, bragging rights don't get much better than being able to sing ‘Campioni', do they?
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by Bad Bob » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:46 pm
On a positive note, how good has Sami Hyypia been for us at the back this season? The lad's the very definition of evergreen and his steady hand and cool head are going to be of tremendous importance to us during the run in, even if he gets fewer games now that Skrtel's returning to health. 
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by Owzat » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:10 pm
Postive - we're still in the title race, even if we aren't top come our next game, so all is not lost.
It will be a few weeks yet before we're completely out of contention!
If you think it's doom and gloom now, wait until if/when we've blown it for real....................
It will be a few weeks yet before we're completely out of contention!
If you think it's doom and gloom now, wait until if/when we've blown it for real....................Never buy from PC World, product quality is poor and their 'customer service' is even poorer
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by supersub » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:31 pm
Owzat wrote:It will be a few weeks yet before we're completely out of contention!
now that is thinking positive with a negative perspective........
but you might well be right but I doubt it!
now I was being negative but with a positive disposition as usual...
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW SHINING AT THE END OF EVERY DAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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by dawson99 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:35 pm
1: We are top of the league
2: Only lost one game all season, best record in Premiership
3: We have Stevie g
4: Torres back from injury
5: Rafa, what does he know about pressure? 3-0 down at half time in a final, thats pressure
6: We believe
7: we have Stevie G (its worth being in there twice)
I could do another 13 or 30 but this will do... we will win the league this season
2: Only lost one game all season, best record in Premiership
3: We have Stevie g
4: Torres back from injury
5: Rafa, what does he know about pressure? 3-0 down at half time in a final, thats pressure
6: We believe
7: we have Stevie G (its worth being in there twice)
I could do another 13 or 30 but this will do... we will win the league this season
0118 999 881 999 119 7253
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- Location: in the mo fo hood y'all
by REDTILLDEAD » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:40 pm
dawson99 wrote:1: We are top of the league
2: Only lost one game all season, best record in Premiership
3: We have Stevie g
4: Torres back from injury
5: Rafa, what does he know about pressure? 3-0 down at half time in a final, thats pressure
6: We believe
7: we have Stevie G (its worth being in there twice)
I could do another 13 or 30 but this will do... we will win the league this season
"WOW".....if you have that much faith in our team and Rafa......er could yer see ya way to lending me a couple of grand?....I"ll pay you back..............honestly i will?.
"THERE ARE TWO GREAT FOOTBALL TEAMS IN LIVERPOOL"
LIVERPOOL..........................AND LIVERPOOL RESERVES!
LIVERPOOL..........................AND LIVERPOOL RESERVES!
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by dawson99 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:44 pm
What I say is, how you say, fact.
8: Sami H - form of his life (almost)
9: Keane, he is good, he will come good
10: Agger, Carragher, Skyrtel... would rather have them 3 plus Hyps than any other lot
11: riera, starting to score
12: Sammy Lee
13: The Kop
8: Sami H - form of his life (almost)
9: Keane, he is good, he will come good
10: Agger, Carragher, Skyrtel... would rather have them 3 plus Hyps than any other lot
11: riera, starting to score
12: Sammy Lee
13: The Kop
0118 999 881 999 119 7253
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by tubby » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:03 pm
milou wrote:It is STILL in our hands! Win every game and it will also include beating Man Utd at OT!
No it's not. Utd will be a point above us if they win their games in hand so it is theirs to drop now, and how often do you see them give it away in the 2nd half of the season. But like you say if we win every game of the season (including Old Trafford) we will win it. It's all so simple isnt it.
But if we failed to put away Hull, Fulham and Stoke at home id say the situation is a little more complicated.
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by supersub » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:07 pm
I just can't see man utd winning the 19 remaining games..if they do, then they fully deserve to win the league
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW SHINING AT THE END OF EVERY DAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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