Liverpool FC Forum

[big al]

For all the arguments the truth be told we have only four or five top players the rest are ordinary.

Pick any eleven you want we will still have over halve the squad as being ordinary. 

I love the recent results we been achieving but GH has not build a squad comparable to Man U or Aresnal and that's his biggest failure.

Nicky Butt is a great player but he's Fergies reject, we want players better than his team.  Let's hope that either some of the youth team cevelop into Owen or Gerrard like players and soon.

[115-1073096938]

We are two or three away from being able to compete in Europe let alone the premiership.

Have you seen the average age of the squad? Here's a few prospects for you who have the talent to be CLASS players in the future. Le Tallec, Pongolle, Welsh, Kirkland, Baros (maybe), Otsemobor (maybe)

Now lets look at a few of our best players

Kewell, 24
Owen, 24
Gerrard, 24

still not in there prime.

Then theres other young players like Vignal, Riise, Diouf.

Mixed with other class players Like Hamann and Hyypia. With good quality players in there also like Murphy, Finnan, Carargher and Henchoz.

A few of these are local players aswell who clearly love the club and play with there heart on there sleeve. Murphy, Carragher and Gerrard.

With the correct additions we'll be in a great position to challenge next season. He will add the right players. Cisse being one of them.

[Ade]

To Owzat's original post, I'd say our pvitoal players are:

Hyypia
Henchoz
Hamann
Gerrard
Kewell
Owen

For me, that is a spine of a side as good as any in the league. It's the add-ons that are the problem. Look at Arsenal's spine: Campbell (overrated, still), Toure, Vieira (brilliant), Henry (brilliant), but that's 2 brilliant players: it's their strength in the support players that tips the balance: the likes of Ljungberg and Pires and even Wiltord weighing in with goals. Same with the Mancs: their defence, O'shea aside, is full of overrated players. Their central midfield and RVN are strong, but it's the overall solidity of their team – not necessarily great players but solid players that wins em games they don't deserve to win.

For me, this also comes down to systems and patterns of play: GH keeps swapping Diouf and Kewell over, and nullifies their threat soon as he does. Charlton away was classic for this. We're 1-0 up, coasting, these 2 switch and we lose control. You never saw Fergie swapping Giggs and Beckham over. Players need to know where their team-mates are; the great Liverpool sides of the past had an intuition about the runs their teammates were gonna make, and you can't develop that if you're constantly tinkering with your side. It fools nobody.

For us, we're no further ahead than at the end of the 2002 season. In fact, we might have gone backwards, cos at that stage we had an in-form Dudek, Litmanen and Anelka. When we came 2nd, any fool could see we needed a RB and a LM, and GH blew #18m on three squad players.

Maybe try Mendieta, get Litmanen and Vignal back for cover, and make an outrageous bid for Chivu.

[Ade]

To Owzat's original post, I'd say our pvitoal players are:

Hyypia
Henchoz
Hamann
Gerrard
Kewell
Owen

For me, that is a spine of a side as good as any in the league. It's the add-ons that are the problem. Look at Arsenal's spine: Campbell (overrated, still), Toure, Vieira (brilliant), Henry (brilliant), but that's 2 brilliant players: it's their strength in the support players that tips the balance: the likes of Ljungberg and Pires and even Wiltord weighing in with goals. Same with the Mancs: their defence, O'shea aside, is full of overrated players. Their central midfield and RVN are strong, but it's the overall solidity of their team – not necessarily great players but solid players that wins em games they don't deserve to win.

For me, this also comes down to systems and patterns of play: GH keeps swapping Diouf and Kewell over, and nullifies their threat soon as he does. Charlton away was classic for this. We're 1-0 up, coasting, these 2 switch and we lose control. You never saw Fergie swapping Giggs and Beckham over. Players need to know where their team-mates are; the great Liverpool sides of the past had an intuition about the runs their teammates were gonna make, and you can't develop that if you're constantly tinkering with your side. It fools nobody.

For us, we're no further ahead than at the end of the 2002 season. In fact, we might have gone backwards, cos at that stage we had an in-form Dudek, Litmanen and Anelka. When we came 2nd, any fool could see we needed a RB and a LM, and GH blew #18m on three squad players.

Maybe try Mendieta, get Litmanen and Vignal back for cover, and make an outrageous bid for Chivu.

Sorry, that should've been a LB and a RM.

[115-1073096938]

Mancs and Arsenal are full of overated players?

Pfft don't make me laugh. Thats ridiculous.

I'm not a fan of either and strongly dislike them both but to say they are overated is pathetic. The only player who is probably overated in the Arsenal team is Ljungberg and in the United team is probably Silvestre. All the rest are pretty much spot on. Hence the reason they are both better than us.

Also don't sit there and say to me Carragher and Finnan aren't excellent players. Finnan and Jamie would walk into anyside in the league.

[big al]

Stu over-rated players! what do you mean the kind that win premierships or are we talking about something totally different.  Anybody who has ever kicked a football or has been involved in football knows great footballers when they see them. Any a##hole can sit in judgement of footballers who's boots they could never lace.  So let's get some perspective on it mate.  They have better teams than us, a lot more better players than us and better managers than us, thank god their fans are s##t though.

[Ade]

Mancs and Arsenal are full of overated players?

Pfft don't make me laugh. Thats ridiculous.

I'm not a fan of either and strongly dislike them both but to say they are overated is pathetic. The only player who is probably overated in the Arsenal team is Ljungberg and in the United team is probably Silvestre. All the rest are pretty much spot on. Hence the reason they are both better than us.

Also don't sit there and say to me Carragher and Finnan aren't excellent players. Finnan and Jamie would walk into anyside in the league.

Stu, sorry to get in the queue but I'm gonna have to disagree with you. So carragher and  Finnan would walk into any side in the league? Get a grip man, they're both good players, nothing more. Your problem is you think that because they're tryers and they play in red qualifies them as class players. Don't work like that mate: OK, I'll close my eyes and tell meself that Carra and Biscan and Diouf are class cos they're wearing the liver bird on their shirt and we're paying em 20 grand a week and GH believes in them. you remind me of me when i was 8 or 9. crying into me pillow cos i couldn't believe we'd lost, cos  we were liverpool and we were the best and we didn't lose.

yes, i do think ferdinand and neville and silevestre are overrrated. you don't? i'd take a lot of centre backs and fullbacks ahead of those mate. the difference is they're good players - nothing more - who are well drilled and well disciplined and who play wit each other week in week out. no more.

you've got a good set of lungs, but open your eyes man

[supersub]

It helps that manc have a manager who can put fire in the belly of the most ordinary player and make him a winner.We have a boss who just gives his players excuses everytime they let the fans,the manager and themselves down.

[Ade]

It helps that manc have a manager who can put fire in the belly of the most ordinary player and make him a winner.We have a boss who just gives his players excuses everytime they let the fans,the manager and themselves down.

Yep, and that's the difference mate.

I like GH's attitude and his respect for the club, but he hasn't got the balls to get hold of the team and tell em what he wants. Could you see heskey and smicer and cheyrou and diao and diouf lasting more than a season at Old trafford or Highbury? At the moment, we've got a culture of smugness or complacency, call it what you want. It's that Liverpool thing - we don't sack our managers and our supporters are morre loyal than anyone elses. Great, lets give ourselves a big pat on the back while we slip another few places down the league.

Sorry, but i read today that GH said it doesn't matter whether this current Liverpool team are champions this year or next yuear or in 5 years time, they will be champions.

er, sorry: it does f##king matter if it's this year or next year or 5 years time. we need it sooner rather than later. wake up  and make it next year.

BTW, was out with a mate tonight who's a diehard Celtic fan. He reckons Larsson is one 20 grand a week at Celtic, one of the highest paid players in the SPL, and he would die to go to Anfield. Celtic are also resigned to losing MON.

[haps]

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[Ade]

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Haps, talk to me mate. I think we're here on our own.

[haps]

sorry, mistake with the post there.  What I wanted to say was, I'll happily take both Larsson and O'Neill.  We need a manager who can put a fire under a player's a#se.  I'm willing to do that for 4K a week but no less.  If y'all woulf prefer Martin then I'll be hurt but I will try to understand.  Or ...maybe ..... just maybe we could ask "Big" Ben to take over.  He'd be GREAT!  We could sign rubbish from the French league and argue with Ben on the web-sites.   

[Ade]

sorry, mistake with the post there.  What I wanted to say was, I'll happily take both Larsson and O'Neill.  We need a manager who can put a fire under a player's a#se.  I'm willing to do that for 4K a week but no less.  If y'all woulf prefer Martin then I'll be hurt but I will try to understand.  Or ...maybe ..... just maybe we could ask "Big" Ben to take over.  He'd be GREAT!  We could sign rubbish from the French league and argue with Ben on the web-sites.   

Haps, not kidding mate, I've had a drink tonight and all that, but I'm getting ot the point where i'm genuinely worried about us. At the moment we're nothing more than a mid-table team, but if we keep GH we're gonna be a mid-tabe CLUB for the next five years.

Cycles come and go in sport, but we should be better than this. I think you've gotta look at underlyin trends, and GH's has been downwards ever since he cam e back from surgery.

There's only 2 managers that can save us:

Ronald Koeman or George Dawes

[haps]

Well Ade, would be very interested to know the reason behind you favouring those two possible managers.  As far as Koeman goes, wouldn't it be better to get someone with a track record and as for George Dawes, well ....?  Maybe.  I don't know though.  Am I being a bit Saturday night here or are you serious?  No offence. (I'm sure there won't be -  i mean you saw it today, right?)  Personally, I'd like O' Neill.  I think he's got the man-management skills and if I'm honest, have a good knowledge that the job would interest him.  Liverpool fc needs a manager who can buy good players and then know how to talk to them and where to play em.  Is Philip Neville really that good?  NO.  Of course he's not.  Even Ferguson knows that but Ferguson knows what to say to a player like that.  For a little while this season, Mancscum looked shy of quality midfield players.  Beckham went, Veron went and suddenly, Ferguson took Neville Neville's youngest out for a French dinner and blew hot air up his *****.  Answer, Philip BLOODY Neville, of all people, was a midfield dynamo, whereas last five years he's been a utility defender.  See my point.  Ludicrously, we need a man who can caress the ego/tickle point of overpaid footballers.
P.S.:  Stevie Gerrard is uniquely brilliant

[hd7ac]

GK Kirkland

RB Finnan
LB Riise
CB Henchoz
CB Hyypia

RW Murphy
LW Kewell
CM Hamann
CM Gerrard

FW Owen
FW Heskey

I must say i put murphy in at right wing only as i have to choose a full 11! i tink biscan and diouf should both b taken away and shot also!
I must say as much as i have very little confidence in GH transfer dealings, i really like Cisse as a player he is world class and will be an absolute sensation as long as we find some service for him