NESV - OUR NEW OWNERS - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby maguskwt » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:15 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:54 am wrote:nah, not having that reg, sorry.
when they appointed comoli they were appointing the first DoF in the clubs 120 year history, it was a radical move at the time and one they said would bring the club into the modern world. 12 months later he was gone. even the timing of his sacking was odd, days before we played a cup final.
thats not even mentioning the billy beane saga, i mean who goes and asks a baseball fella who should run one of the biggest football clubs in the world?
you seem to have glossed over their mismanagement of the suarez affair too not to mention their mismanagement of our search for a new manager, they have constantly put their foot in it with statements like `we have the funds to compete with anyone in football` and saying how much they liked the idea of this game 39, then they basically rubbished the 2 domestic cups (including the F.A  cup, the oldest trophy in football and the genesis of the game) not to mention ayre bragging on telly the day after kenny was sacked that his side of the business was going great.
they have sacked people behind the scene`s in their droves and upset others like pep segura who everyone raved about (even the owners thought he was doing a good job they wanted to make him a DoF).
thats another carry on, first they said they were going to appoint a new DoF, then they said they were going to appoint 2 DoF`s and then they said we are having none.
look at the debacle over this summer as well.
there doesnt seem to be any plan, we just stumble from one carry on to another.
they really need to appoint someone to run the football club for them, someone who knows what he is doing, david dein has been mentioned and so has brian barwick, at the moment i think an appointment like that is even more important than signing a striker. how can we expect to get it right on the pitch when our senior management just lurch from one carry on to another like some drunk staggering down the street stumbling into lamp posts and dustbins on his way home from the boozer.


the mismanagement of the suarez affair is as much to blame on Kenny as to the owners. Kenny knows the culture, the country and the press. It is therefore not suprising that the owners would defer to Kenny in handling the suarez case.

They did not appoint DoF because Rodgers is very much against it. And weren't some of you moaning about HAVING a DoF? "it undermines the manager..."  blah blah blah... it seems to me that it's a classic case of damn if you do, damn if you don't...
Image
maguskwt
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 8232
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:39 pm

Postby Boxscarf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:45 pm

What worries me is that we got rid of 9 players and only brought in 3 players. This constant want to keep wages down etc seems to be (at present) detrimental to the club. We let Maxi, Bellamy and Kuyt go when we could have used those players in this campaign. Bellamy would be an excellent addition to the right hand side of attack in a 4-3-3 formation. Maxi and Kuyt would also have been useful, but there you go, they've gone.
Boxscarf
 
Posts: 2059
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:52 pm
Location: United Kingdom.

Postby parchpea » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:52 pm

I dont think they have done enough to convince people they can take the club
forward and thats all I am after.

By their own admission its been poor so far and their plan of action is to shut
the investment down and cut the wage bill, neither of which give me any great
hope for the future.

Following the failure of the previous regime they can play on fear by offering a
debt free future, but the test is how long people will keep the faith if we are
bottom half and out of every comp by christmas.

January would be interesting then with the wallet firmly shut and Rodgers
looking to flog off our best best players again to raise funds.
parchpea
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:13 am

Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Reg » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:30 am wrote:John Henry should be told Liverpool need youth and experience

John W Henry’s 800-word open letter to Liverpool fans can be summed up in one sentence: “Yes, we’ve made mistakes but we’re still trying to clean up someone else’s mess.”

6:00AM BST 04 Sep 2012

His appeasement campaign ticked all the right boxes to ensure he calmed the disquiet after a traumatic weekend. The only problem was he found nowhere in his re-affirmation of Fenway Sports Group’s transfer policy to address the question every supporter wants answering. Why did you allow Andy Carroll to go without being sure you would sign a replacement?

At least in blaming others, there was an acknowledgement of FSG’s own errors. There was even the slightest hint of slaying a sacred cow when the signings of Kenny Dalglish and Damien Comolli - whose £110 million spree (and the lucrative pay-offs they received) have left a mental and fiscal wound on the Americans - were acknowledged as influencing the current shift.

Most fans will gleefully apply the blaming of ‘former regimes’ to Tom Hicks and George Gillett, even if targeting them is the equivalent of digging up a two-year-old corpse and giving into another burial.

None of this was the central issue on Friday evening.

There was a breakdown in the chain of command, the manager realising when it was too late that just because he wanted a player, agreed he was worth the asking price and had enough money to complete a deal, it did not necessarily mean he would get him. By any standard of boardroom interference, this was pretty exceptional at Anfield.

Clint Dempsey did not sign because, for his fee and age, he fitted Rodgers’ profile but did not fit that of FSG. But who now determines that profile, and how can we be sure this will never happen again?

Liverpool say Rodgers could have signed Daniel Sturridge for £15 million last Friday, but there were sound reasons for the manager not to pursue him. Rodgers wanted the player to prove himself for a season before committing so much money.

And why are FSG so reluctant to identify those who influenced this decision? We know Henry listens to advisers. With a self-confessed limited knowledge of English football, he clearly isn’t conducting this new era of quality control alone, so he has someone doing the vetting on his behalf.

When FSG first revealed they were taking independent advice, it led to a surreal period when individuals as diverse as Johan Cruyff to a blogger employed by Liverpool’s official website issued denials that they were the chief consultants. Whoever they are, they are able to act without fear of being held accountable for their decisions. They told FSG that Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini were acceptable purchases but Dempsey was not.

While Rodgers was pursuing the ex-Fulham striker for two months, there were those at his own club insisting the American was not a Liverpool target. It was decided long before Carroll left that Dempsey was not worth £6 million, so Rodgers was wasting his time on Friday.

In the discussions between manager and owner to prevent a repeat of Friday, Henry may need a crash course in how a blend of youth and experience is the key to success.

Rodgers understands the economic plan and has embraced it. He knows that while Liverpool are outside the Champions League, he can never expect more than a £20 million summer budget. He will look for solutions rather than stir up agitation, and, if anything, he should be helped by the lowering of short-term expectations. If he is to succeed, however, the manager must be allowed to manage and stand and fall by his own decisions. If he is unable to do so, the Liverpool job will rapidly become one of the most unworkable in English football.


where`s this article from reg?
if this is true, this advisor of john henry`s (who oversaw the manager recruitment process) is basically in charge of player recruitment as well.
no wonder rodgers said on monday there were one or two `operational` issue`s to sort out behind the scene`s, he must have been fuming when his judgement was basically overruled by henry`s advisor. didnt rodgers storm out of melwood in a huff on the last day of the transfer window? no wonder.
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 12487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm
Location: Liverpool

Postby The Hustler » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:17 pm

parchpea » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:52 pm wrote:I dont think they have done enough to convince people they can take the club
forward and thats all I am after. 


Yeah. They only paid off £100m of the clubs debt when then took over left by Hicks and Gillette, leaving us relatively debt free, and then spent another 70m + on Carroll, Suarez, Henderson, Adam, and Downing + a few others.

Those tight fisted American skinflints!

By their own admission its been poor so far and their plan of action is to shut
the investment down and cut the wage bill, 


I never remember Tom Werner or John Henry ever coming out and saying exactly that.

All wrong  :no

Some fans have got it into their mind some consipracy theory by the yanks.
The Hustler
LFC Advanced Member
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: Electric Ladyland

Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:38 pm

Boxscarf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:18 am wrote:United are an estimated £385m in debt and are now floating on the New York Stock Exchange. I suspect they'll be fine.

They floated 10% of the club!!

It raised £230M and only half went towards paying off some of the £450M debt! The other half went direct to the Glazer family.
User avatar
SouthCoastShankly
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6076
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: West Sussex

Postby heimdall » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:50 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:38 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:18 am wrote:United are an estimated £385m in debt and are now floating on the New York Stock Exchange. I suspect they'll be fine.

They floated 10% of the club!!

It raised £230M and only half went towards paying off some of the £450M debt! The other half went direct to the Glazer family.


So what, if they need to they just sell an extra 10% and use all of it to pay off the debt, then they are debt free, fairly simple economics. Man Utd generate far mroe money than we can dream of and their level of debt is completely under control.
User avatar
heimdall
 
Posts: 4971
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: London

Postby stmichael » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:03 pm

Liverpool are paying the price for a lack of leadership

Tony Barrett

For a club who place so much emphasis on their own history, Liverpool have somehow allowed themselves to be drawn into a situation in which they all too easily rubbish their own past.

It is something which has been happening since the removal and subsequent unnecessary public criticism of Kenny Dalglish as manager and it was writ large in John W. Henry’s letter from America with its conspicuous reference to “the errors of previous regimes”.

Depending on your preference, that particular dig was aimed at Dalglish and Damien Comolli, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, Rafael Benitez, Roy Hodgson or Christian Purslow. Whoever the target was doesn’t really matter, particularly as Henry himself was unwilling to name names, but the implicit message was that Fenway Sports Group (FSG), Liverpool’s owner, is clearing up a mess that is of someone else’s making.

There was at least an element of mea culpa about Henry’s open letter to the Liverpool fans: he did, after all, admit that the problems FSG inherited upon buying the club almost two years ago “have been compounded by our own mistakes”. Again, though, this was all in the past tense, and while the belated holding up of hands to accept a degree of responsibility is welcome, there was no indication of what FSG will do to ensure such mistakes are not repeated in the future.

For a club that have spent much of the past five years lurching from one crisis to another the apparent lack of direction and leadership is an increasing concern. It is no coincidence that Liverpool’s cack-handed and ultimately self-harming attempt to defend Luis Suarez against allegations of racial abuse has been followed up by a shambolic conclusion to the transfer window.

On the surface, the two instances may seem totally unconnected and it is unquestionably true that the Suarez case was on a different plane altogether when it comes to importance and gravity, but the link that binds them is a chronic failure of clear leadership from within the club who have  been without a chief executive since Rick Parry quit the role three and a half years ago.

In itself, the lack of a chief executive is remarkable for a club of Liverpool’s size and stature. Manchester United have David Gill, Arsenal have Ivan Gazidis, Chelsea have Ron Gourlay, Everton have Robert Elstone and Manchester City recently appointed Ferran Soriano to what has long been regarded in football as a key role, one which can define a club’s ability to compete on the pitch and their effectiveness off it.

Liverpool, whose decline now appears increasingly entrenched and who are yet to come up with a solution to their long-running stadium issues, have no-one. All they have is the over-burdened Ayre and a hotline to Boston which did not appear to be in good working order either on transfer deadline day or when the crisis surrounding Suarez was at its peak.

This failing was not caused by “previous regimes”. FSG bought Liverpool on October 15, 2010 and just five weeks shy of their second anniversary as owners they are still to appoint a chief executive despite having a chairman, Tom Werner, who is based in the US rather than on Merseyside. The lack of local leadership is most evident on match days when Ayre is often the only senior figure from the club’s hierarchy present in the directors box.

Towards the end of last season, Dave Whelan alluded to the problem when he claimed that Liverpool “had no heart beating” after being shocked by the lack of directors present at Anfield during Wigan Athletic’s shock win over Dalglish’s side.

Apart from the ever-present Ayre and their then director of communications Ian Cotton, the majority of Liverpool’s board of directors – namely Henry, Werner, David Ginsberg, Michael Gordon and Jeff Vinik – were nowhere near Anfield on the day of the game, they were in the US.

Absentee owners are not necessarily a problem of course. It’s not as if Manchester City needed Sheikh Mansour to be ever present at the Etihad Stadium last season for them to win their first league title since 1968. But a presence is an absolute necessity because, as Liverpool have found out to their cost, without one it is far too easy for dysfunction to set in and for problems that could be resolved, easily or otherwise, to lurch out of control.

That, it is safe to presume, was one of the reasons why Liverpool ended the transfer window with its left hand not knowing – or worse, not trusting – what its right hand was doing. There was no joined up thinking, just a conflict created by divergent and incompatible philosophies which spiralled because there was no-one ready, willing or able to coax management and ownership to reconcile their strategic differences for the good of the club.
Just as they did after the Suarez saga, Liverpool are now paying a heavy price for the absence of such an individual.

It was almost one hundred years ago that Theodore Roosevelt, the 26th President of the USA no less, stated that “the best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint to keep from meddling with them while they do it.”

Having failed to do the former by appointing a top-class chief executive, Henry also found himself unable to do the latter as his restrictions prevented Brendan Rodgers from completing a deal to sign Dempsey on the grounds that he has no interest in “quick-fix” signings who “only contribute for a couple of years”.

As Henry, Rodgers and Liverpool might discover to their cost in the weeks and months to come, though, a quick fix is, by its nature, better than no fix. Maybe that is one of the reasons why Liverpool have become so obsessed with castigating those responsible for the failings of their immediate past – they are increasingly concerned about what the future has in store.

But whatever their worries on the pitch, the reality is that they need a top-class chief executive as much as they are crying out for a top-class goalscorer. To lack one for any length of time might be an acceptable risk but to have neither is at best a huge gamble, at worst outright negligence. 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/foo ... 50a10e294e
User avatar
stmichael
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22644
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:23 pm

heimdall » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:50 am wrote:
SouthCoastShankly » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:38 pm wrote:
Boxscarf » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:18 am wrote:United are an estimated £385m in debt and are now floating on the New York Stock Exchange. I suspect they'll be fine.

They floated 10% of the club!!

It raised £230M and only half went towards paying off some of the £450M debt! The other half went direct to the Glazer family.


So what, if they need to they just sell an extra 10% and use all of it to pay off the debt, then they are debt free, fairly simple economics. Man Utd generate far mroe money than we can dream of and their level of debt is completely under control.

That isn't the point.

The point is that was cannot spend and incur debt safe in the knowledge that we can get by with commercial revenue and stock market income. We aren't as big as that.

That risk is reserved for clubs who already have money. We clearly do not and cannot justify over investing.
User avatar
SouthCoastShankly
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 6076
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: West Sussex

Postby heimdall » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:23 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:23 pm wrote:That isn't the point.

The point is that was cannot spend and incur debt safe in the knowledge that we can get by with commercial revenue and stock market income. We aren't as big as that.

That risk is reserved for clubs who already have money. We clearly do not and cannot justify over investing.


Do you define £2million extra, on top of the £4million Dempsey bid, as overinvesting?
User avatar
heimdall
 
Posts: 4971
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: London

Postby parchpea » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:49 pm

The Hustler » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:17 pm wrote:
parchpea » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:52 pm wrote:I dont think they have done enough to convince people they can take the club
forward and thats all I am after. 


Yeah. They only paid off £100m of the clubs debt when then took over left by Hicks and Gillette, leaving us relatively debt free, and then spent another 70m + on Carroll, Suarez, Henderson, Adam, and Downing + a few others.

Those tight fisted American skinflints!

By their own admission its been poor so far and their plan of action is to shut
the investment down and cut the wage bill, 


I never remember Tom Werner or John Henry ever coming out and saying exactly that.

All wrong  :no

Some fans have got it into their mind some consipracy theory by the yanks.


The purchase of the club was dirt cheap and a terrific investment opportunity
and they were not on a mercy mission. They got a very good deal.

They have put money in but a fair chunk was recouped from the Torres sale and
other outs, for example Meireles, and the big earners off the wage bill. I dont
have time to do the accounts but I would hazard a guess they havent put much
of their own money in overall but happy to stand corrected.

Anyway its just my opinion but I do hope they can turn it round despite my own
reservations about them.

Unfortunately I am so desperate for the club to do well I really dont have any
patience left at this point and its so frustrating watching us struggle and make
stupid mistakes year after year, but there you go  :down:
parchpea
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 4040
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:13 am

Postby jacdaniel » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:14 pm

Patience is something that every Liverpool fan will need to have or somehow get used to. 
We have a very young manager, the youngest squad that I can remember and owners that won't be spending big on a quick fix.   
The stadium issue is also still no further forward.
We're clearly not going anywhere fast... unless Rodgers is a miracle worker.   

Like it or not, thats the reality of our current situation.
"When you walk, through a storm, hold your head up high"
User avatar
jacdaniel
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby The Hustler » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:23 pm

Im sure the owners will give funds to the manager in January. Lets hope he buys right + doesnt waste the cash.
The Hustler
LFC Advanced Member
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:05 pm
Location: Electric Ladyland

Postby maypaxvobiscum » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:25 pm

Think of the power and the prestige. Imagine the chance to put your plans into action. For the vast majority who are neither qualified nor talented enough to manage or play for a football club, owning one is the next best thing. For many a predatory businessman, it is also a money-making opportunity.

But sometimes it is hard to be an owner. And for Fenway Sports Group, this is one of those times. Liverpool's American directors have been criticised for what they didn't manage to achieve - signing a striker on transfer deadline day - and then for their reaction, releasing an open letter to supporters, restating their ambition and reiterating their philosophy.

It also kept Liverpool in the news, offered hints of a disagreement with manager Brendan Rodgers and did not address every concern fans raised. Honesty and humility brought some censure and condemnation. And, at times like these, it feels that FSG are damned for whatever they do and whatever they don't.

Clearly Friday was a disaster. Quite how costly a failure it proves to be will become apparent over the next four months. It looks a false economy not to sign the 29-year-old Clint Dempsey for around £6 million and an additional error not to have a secondary striking option.

Yet anyone expecting an in-depth explanation of who said what to whom on Friday, when and why is deluding themselves - partly because some things ought to remain confidential, not least because they could expose greater divisions, and partly because it wouldn't happen anywhere else. Liverpool's owners are more open than many of their counterparts; compared to some others, they do not deserve to have their motives questioned. They are not the Glazers. They are not Venky's. Most importantly, they are not Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

After their 2010 takeover, FSG inherited a far greater mess than they expected and, while there should be a statute of limitations about attributing problems to Messrs Hicks and Gillett, John W Henry and Tom Werner are nowhere near it yet. In many ways, including communicating with the fanbase, they are the opposite of their secretive predecessors, not to mention Manchester United's reclusive directors, who have lumped debt on the club and taken money out of it.

It is not enough to satisfy some of the Liverpool support, but it is a level of transparency that would make Sir Alex Ferguson turn puce with rage. FSG have been truthful enough to admit to mistakes, and diplomatic not to name them, which might have reflected rather poorly on Southport's most prominent golfer and his most expensive signings.

Kenny Dalglish is a reason FSG have long been in a no-win situation. The awkward decision to dismiss the Anfield icon came at a cost to Henry's popularity with a section of fans, yet the alternative was to risk another league season like last and, perhaps worse, another summer signing spree like the last.

During the Scot's reign, Dalglish's loyalists criticised FSG for not offering the Scot enough support. Yet it was not advice that he needed - he needed to be overruled. When apologies were dictated from Boston during the Luis Suarez affair, it was a belated reaction to a situation that had escalated out of control.

The problem was not that Dalglish had too little power, but too much. Yet had FSG parachuted someone in from America to run the club, the interpretation would be that they were interfering. Now the call from the pressure group Spirit of Shankly is for them to appoint a Merseyside-based chief executive. They are sentiments many share but, were FSG to accede, it may lead to a militant faction making demand after demand.

As it is, apart from vetoing a deal for Dempsey, FSG have given their appointments licence to act as they will and room for manoeuvre. At Rodgers' wish, their plans to install a director of football this summer were shelved. He, too, is largely able to run the club his way. But if Henry takes advice from others on players' valuations, is it any wonder given the way Dalglish and Damien Comolli paid over the odds for average talents?

Yet while Rodgers has not been granted the spending power afforded to his predecessor, the demands are also lower. A top-four finish was the principal objective last season but Henry has said that failure to secure Champions League football will not be grounds for dismissal for Rodgers. This is entirely reasonable.

Their broader principles, of assembling a young group of players, with an intelligent recruitment policy focused on identifying talent and a manager with the skill to turn them into a competitive, attractive team, make sense. In the case of Dempsey, FSG should have been more flexible.

But, as Henry said in his letter, it is a learning process for them. In particular, they are learning that they can't please all of the people all of the time. Or even a majority of the people most of the time.

Source: ESPN Soccernet.
User avatar
maypaxvobiscum
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Singapore

Postby stmichael » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:38 pm

the need for a top class CEO is absolutely essential imo. spurs/arsenal/united all have long established personnel in this area. city and chelsea don't have to worry about money.

we on the other hand promoted our commercial director and he wasn't up to the job. the structure isn't necessarily wrong.
User avatar
stmichael
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22644
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 30 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e