Liverpool FC Forum

[The_Rock]

But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

You are a good poster....i am not being sarcastic....but what really pi$$es me off is when you keep b1tching about owners not backing him up with sign ups ? when ? why ? where ? I mean come on....

They gave him money for torres...babel...Lucas...benayoun...and now skertel and signing mascherano for keeps (the cause of the misunderstanding between the owners and rafa).

They haven't ask rafa to get rid of some of our players 1st before signing others (only sissoko has left) ..... They are backing him.  And anyone who says it otherwise are deluding themselves...

[Sabre]

I don't think about anything but football in my way to work, and sometimes in work aswell So I'm actually rethinking all the time.

I've seen far too many examples of clubs that thought that sacking the manager was the response to all the problems, last example in Valencia, Quique Sanchez Flores. He was sacked 4 points off Real Madrid. After that, 3 months later, he's 4 points off aswell, but from relegation.

You have to be very careful when you place the guilt of the problems of a club, and be actually sure the problem is the manager that has stopped Liverpool from winning the league so many years. It MAY be Rafa's fault, but then again, it may not.

In general my position is not about Rafa, I always preffer to give time rather than not in case of doubt, not only with the manager, but also players. But I understand aswell that in a big club, time is scarce. But I thought Rafa had done enough to earn the end of his contract.

Anyhow, the fans are sobereign, if it comes the day in which most of the fans want Rafa leaves, then I'll reckon it's the time that Rafa must go.

[Sabre]

But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

You are a good poster....i am not being sarcastic....but what really pi$$es me off is when you keep b1tching about owners not backing him up with sign ups ? when ? why ? where ? I mean come on....

They gave him money for torres...babel...Lucas...benayoun...and now skertel and signing mascherano for keeps (the cause of the misunderstanding between the owners and rafa).

They haven't ask rafa to get rid of some of our players 1st before signing others (only sissoko has left) ..... They are backing him.  And anyone who says it otherwise are deluding themselves...

You can remember this very season when he wasn't allowed to do movements of his own competence and was told to focus on trainings. You can remember aswell when he went to Spain other seasons to find cheap-o Spanish solutions for the gaps he had in the squad and never was given the men required. It's all well discussed and documented The Rock.

[Number 9]

But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

You are a good poster....i am not being sarcastic....but what really pi$$es me off is when you keep b1tching about owners not backing him up with sign ups ? when ? why ? where ? I mean come on....

They gave him money for torres...babel...Lucas...benayoun...and now skertel and signing mascherano for keeps (the cause of the misunderstanding between the owners and rafa).

They haven't ask rafa to get rid of some of our players 1st before signing others (only sissoko has left) ..... They are backing him.  And anyone who says it otherwise are deluding themselves...

I wouldnt go as far as saying they are backing Rafa!They are buying players because it is in their own longterm interst.
To think anything else,you would be the one suffering dellusions!

They tried to get Klinsman behind his back,i think that proves your post wrong mate.
They are not and have never backed Rafa,they are backing what THEY SEE as their future interest.

[account deleted by request]

So lets do a tally of those who think rafa should stay at all costs and those who think its time for a change...

Time for a change of manager
1)Rock - mourinho
2)Pewee -
3)Bamaga - Hiddink
4)Lynds = ciggy
5)JBG - Mounrinho
6)puroresu
7)Saint - Mounrinho
8)BigMick -
9)Dav
10)Lakes
11)anyone else i miss....sorry


Rafa stay at all cost
1)Lando
2)Sabre
3)LFC_2007



Please feel free to amend....and lets see finally if fans here think its time for a change or not....

Oi seeing as I was one of the first to want Rafa out this time last year I think I deserve a place on that list, as for replacement, I want the best available, I can't imagine many managers turning down the job, I'm being serious. Even though I disliked Jose at Chavski I'm sure I can grow to love him and he is a great manager.

Someone, give this lad a "I was right all along" medal so that he goes happy to bed.

JBG's opinion, is a well put one and I encourage this kind of opinions, even if I disagree with it. As long as you don't call Rafa a clueless twát, it's ok to criticise the manager even losing the faith -- losing the faith isn't something you choose, you simply have it or not.

As for The Rock's list, I'm not in the "at all cost" list. I'd like Rafa to stay at least to the end of his contract, what he came for. But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

I'm not in the Rafa out Mourinho in list either Sabre, but I think for the purposes of this discussion its close enough really. I am more in the "not got a clue but leaning towards Rafa going if things don't pick up very quickly, unless the rumours are true, in which case he can go now for me" list. But we all have our own personal agendas so its good enough for me. 

[Dundalk]

My my how it all has turned.

Great post JBG hats off to you.  I like Rafa and to be honest I would like him to stay on as manager. I honestly believe that he can win the premiership and has the skills to do so.

However if its a case that he has lost some of the dressing room and the players dont want to play for him or dont respect him then all is lost already and he has to go. Nobody is bigger than the club.

If it wasnt for rotation and stubborness he would be perfect

[agoodmentality]

We all know A Wenger is a freak of nature, what he's done with that club is amazing.
I think Rafa's trying to replicate a bit with his summer spending on youth players,(just that we are 3 years behind at least).,
The problem is, of course we can't wait another 3 years,, we need to compete now,

Its easy to say money is'nt the problem, when the mancs buy 2 teenagers for 30M?,

Rafa's trying his best, I don't know if you've noticed but we play a quite old fashioned Italian style of football, just do enough. Boring as fucc, but gets results (especially in cup competitions).

Mabey one "torres" type signing each summer over the next 3, 2-3 youngsters coming good, is it really that hard to imagine us challenging for the prem under benitez?

Would he then have the confidence in his players to allow them to play with more freedom?
I wouldn't say chelski played beautiful expansive football when they dominated the prem, they had better players and a solid system.

i really don't know what to think.

[66-1112520797]

But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

You are a good poster....i am not being sarcastic....but what really pi$$es me off is when you keep b1tching about owners not backing him up with sign ups ? when ? why ? where ? I mean come on....

They gave him money for torres...babel...Lucas...benayoun...and now skertel and signing mascherano for keeps (the cause of the misunderstanding between the owners and rafa).

They haven't ask rafa to get rid of some of our players 1st before signing others (only sissoko has left) ..... They are backing him.  And anyone who says it otherwise are deluding themselves...

You can remember this very season when he wasn't allowed to do movements of his own competence and was told to focus on trainings. You can remember aswell when he went to Spain other seasons to find cheap-o Spanish solutions for the gaps he had in the squad and never was given the men required. It's all well discussed and documented The Rock.

I can also remember this season when he seemed so sure he'd sign Heinze for the move to be blocked by United surprisingly. And not even have a back up player to go for, even if he had he'd ran out of time leaving Heinze a last minute deal.

He dropped a bollok there.

And when Agger got injured that bollok proved to be even more than a handful for Beadles bigger hand. 

[The_Rock]

You can remember this very season when he wasn't allowed to do movements of his own competence and was told to focus on trainings. You can remember aswell when he went to Spain other seasons to find cheap-o Spanish solutions for the gaps he had in the squad and never was given the men required. It's all well discussed and documented The Rock.

You can remember this very season when he wasn't allowed to do movements of his own competence and was told to focus on trainings.

Yes...so that means he wasn't given any backing for transfer ? What the owners meant was that rafa concentrate on coaching (thats his job BTW)...and they will discuss stuff during the manu game. But look what has transpired ? They did give him money for skertel and mascherano right ..... So does this mean they are backing him or not ?


You can remember aswell when he went to Spain other seasons to find cheap-o Spanish solutions for the gaps he had in the squad and never was given the men required. It's all well discussed and documented The Rock.

So you are referring to Moores....the same Moores who funded the Kuyt transfer from his own pockets....the same Moores who hired rafa in the 1st place Least you forget..the basis of why rafa was hired in the 1st place was that he won the la liga without spending loads of $$$. He took a talented squad and put his world class coaching and tactics skills to use and won the la liga. And Moores thought that rafa would have done the same thing here...as houllier did leave rafa with quality players.

Also...Moores did back rafa....but if rafa concentrated on building one quality team instead of team ...the team would have been much better...he decided to go down the quantity road.... you can't blame the owners for that...

[Bammo]

Although I agree with much of JBG's first post, I'd give Rafa another season provided he does the following:

1) Buy top class wingers (particularly on the left). He's admitted he sees Babel as a forward but has to play him on the left because he's needed.

2) Buy a skilful support striker. He clearly wants to play 1 box striker (Torres) and 1 "between the lines" so he should buy one of them. Kuyt is a box player so play him there, otherwise don't play him.

3) Get an Assistant who isn't a yes man. By all reports, Pako stood up to Rafa and this forced Rafa to justify his decisions. Now no-one does that so Rafa does what he wants (and makes more mistakes). It should be mentioned that there isn't a single manager in the world who is successful on their own, they all need good assistants to challenge them as well as support.

4) Stop buggering around with the team so much. Recently he's reduced rotation but there's a limit. He can pick his best 8 or 9 and change the others but I would say that each player should play at least 3 consecutive games. They can't hit form or gain confidence if they're in and out of the side.

Is that too much to ask for from Rafa?

[The_Rock]

But if the owners do not back him with signing ups, that's to say, if he isn't allow to do his job properly, I think it's the best another one comes. But if it's about my opinion, I trust Rafa.

You are a good poster....i am not being sarcastic....but what really pi$$es me off is when you keep b1tching about owners not backing him up with sign ups ? when ? why ? where ? I mean come on....

They gave him money for torres...babel...Lucas...benayoun...and now skertel and signing mascherano for keeps (the cause of the misunderstanding between the owners and rafa).

They haven't ask rafa to get rid of some of our players 1st before signing others (only sissoko has left) ..... They are backing him.  And anyone who says it otherwise are deluding themselves...

I wouldnt go as far as saying they are backing Rafa!They are buying players because it is in their own longterm interst.
To think anything else,you would be the one suffering dellusions!

They tried to get Klinsman behind his back,i think that proves your post wrong mate.
They are not and have never backed Rafa,they are backing what THEY SEE as their future interest.

Jan 2008 9 cups......know your role.

This is not a freaking oliver stone conspiracy movie....Lets talk facts and not perceived motives.

1)Rafa asked $$$ for CB and Mash transfer
2)Owners coughed up the money

Thats it....no need to go into what you think....what you feel....thats deluding yourself junior...

[Igor Zidane]

Excellent post JBG , but not one i agree with i'm afraid , i'm defo still with rafa. All i can say is the man has given me some of the best moments in my life  and i'm not prepared to let him be sacked . Thanks for the memories rafa lad ,but you've been sh!te this season so of you pop . It's definately a personal thing though , i wouldn;t slag anyone off who wants the best for the club , it's just we don't agree on what's best . I think rafa with the right funds and support from the board would bring us the league ,i'm prepared to give him more time whilst others are not . Fair enouh i suppose . One thing i hope and pray for though is that it's all done at the end of the season ,if he hasn't walked by then (which i think he will ). So everyone can start afresh .

[Penguins]

Brilliant post JBG.

It practically sums up most of my feelings right now.
Rafa is so obsessed with the center of the field he never ever brings in quality out wide. I mean he had

Alonso, Gerrard, Lucas, Mascherano and Sissoko at the same time at the club. All top class cm. And then he has Kewell and Pennant as only wingers. Just awful and a serious waste of resources

I also feel time is running out for Rafa even if I'll shed a tear thinking back at the memories he has given me.

But I am not hoping for Mourino as much even if capable he plays just as negative as Rafa and loves center mids.
He put Robben on the bench using Lampard, Ballack, Mikel and Essien as his 4 midfielders. What kind of tactics is that?
Awful and the same kind of risk minimizing football I can live without.
I'd like to see what a proven PL manager could do who are offensive minded and who knows how important wide players are for the attack.

Who that would be, I dunno. Moyes anyone...   
Maybe Kenny back, or Mark Hughes(I know, I know)
Just a manager with a plan of his own, No more adapting to how other teams play. Instead getting a manger who makes other teams adapt to us!

[Penguins]

One thing I don't really agree with is the 1st part about expecting to make a genuine title challenge this season.
And I mean around 5 pts behind the leaders at seasons end.
With Torres, Babel and Lucas all practically new to the team and the faltering form of Sissoko but honestly also Alonso I really didn't feel we were on level field with Manure and Chelski.

Add to that that some players like Hyppia, Kewell, Finnan really are past their expiring dates and new players were/are needed.

[teamleader1]

Perfect post, sums up so many supporters feelings to a T,

Rafa will NEVER win us the prem, hes totally fkd this season up with his rotation system!
And that insane trait of only letting the players know whos playing when hes naming the side 1hr before the kick off!
ffs how are players expected to know what their doing on the pitch when this stupid tactic is compounded even more with the inevitable changes in the side every game?
Even if we some how pick one of the cups up, Rafa should still go in the summer,
to be honest, IF we had a number 2, I would be happy to see him go now
The yanks have made us laughing stocks off the pitch and Rafa has  achieved the same on it.