Liverpool FC Forum

[The Ace1983]

That's a fair comment. If, Oasis, you can justify your opinions with fact and civilisied discussion and some concise, well supported points, we might take you a little more seriously. I don't think you can, but please try.

What ever am I going to do, I'm not being taken seriously by a bunch of  who are on an Internet forum. My life is finished as I know it.

Morientes brings a lot to the team, fact! The only reason most Liverpool fans including Mr Alan "I know everything & I'm an ignorant Hansen Jnr (Bad Bob) give Morientes stick is for his lack of goals.

I'd love him to stay but with the worst set of fans in the World he owes it to himself to go back to Spain, join a Spanish team and then knock Liverpool out of the Champions League.

Then we'll see how good Crouch is, Crouch is a good player but he isn't as good as Morientes is, fact!

Yeah, ok, we get it, you think Morientes is the greatest player we've ever had and you want to have his babies, but you still haven't given us any factual reasons. You've just insulted us and said that you want us knocked out of Europe. Making friends every minute, aren't you.

To be quite honest mate, you sound like a bluesh!te and I stil think that you know nothing about football, but the offer still stands. Put some facts on the table and we'll see what stands up to scrutiny (and just so you know, putting the word "fact" after something doesn't necessarily make it the truth).

[Ace Ventura]

Oasis, i think i have been through this with you before, the whole Morientes is class argument.
I really think that he has had ample opportunity to show he could make it in England and he has failed, and failed spectaculaly.
He has not only not scored anywhere near enough goals, he has failed to get involved in games as well, his body language is that of a man resigned to the fact that he wont change the fans opinion of him. You can see it on his face when he doesnt get a free kick when a defender has out muscled him.
Rafa has cut him far too much slack and it threatened to ruin our season at one point, if we had Robbie Fowler in the early part of the season and not Nando then we would without doubt have taken 2nd place.
He was awful last season and got away with it due to the fact that he was new to the league and not fully fit, but he has been worse this season and thats after a full pre-season and the manager standing by him.
If he is at Anfield next season i will be annoyed, we need someone who we can rely on, not someone who shows glimpses of worldclass skill once in a while.
The comparison with Crouch is not right either, Crouch gets involved all of the time, he has limitations but is a hungry player, Morientes looks like the hunger has gone.
It would be better for all if he went back to Spain, i would wish him well, but know that LFC would be better off.

[Houllier=LFC]

I'd love him to stay but with the worst set of fans in the World he owes it to himself to go back to Spain, join a Spanish team and then knock Liverpool out of the Champions League.

Seriously are you a liverpool fan or just a plain moro fan?

[JC_81]

Or Rafa could risk selling both, (which Personally I think will eventually happen) over the summer. The obvious risk would be getting two top strikers before the season commences. Throw the world cup in on top of that and the inflation that goes with it, and I think it would be difficult to get two top strikers in for the deadline.

I think that's a fairly key point you've picked up on there Bamaga.  The big problem with getting rid of both Morientes and Cisse is getting replacements in.  We did struggle in front of goal this season, but the season before we struggled far more.  And why?  Because we'd just sold our first choice strike partnership of Owen and Heskey over the summer with only Cisse coming the other way.  Cisse picks up a bad injury and then bang - we're left with Pongolle, Baros and Mellor, none of whom had much previous first team action.  Baros went from 'little used sub' to main striker.  It was a bad situation.

Benitez will be very careful he doesn't end up in a similar situation again.  And I do have the sneaking suspicion that Morientes might be the one that gets kept until January at least, with a quality replacement for Cisse the only change up front this summer.

[The Ace1983]

I can see what you're saying JC, but as I've stated before on this forum, I have a sneaking suspicion that he will keep Cisse at least until January. Cisse's been begging for his future and pleading with Rafa for another chance, so he must be able to see the passion and despiration in the Frenchman's attitude which may be the situation Cisse needs to get him going. And he does score goals. If Rafa won't want to get into the situation we were in last season, he's more likely to keep Cisse because he scores goals, even if they are only against the lesser teams. Nando looks worn out and doesn't do enough for someone like Benitez who rightly demands a lot from his players. This is of course just a theory and personally I'd like both of them gone with Defoe coming in and maybe another youngster.

Nando should go back to Spain, because he's never had it or cut it in the Premiership. But we just don't have the time or resources to keep a player who consistantly under performs and doesn't do enough for the team.

[Judge]

not surprising really that spain aint picked him

[JC_81]

I can see what you're saying JC, but as I've stated before on this forum, I have a sneaking suspicion that he will keep Cisse at least until January. Cisse's been begging for his future and pleading with Rafa for another chance, so he must be able to see the passion and despiration in the Frenchman's attitude which may be the situation Cisse needs to get him going. And he does score goals. If Rafa won't want to get into the situation we were in last season, he's more likely to keep Cisse because he scores goals, even if they are only against the lesser teams. Nando looks worn out and doesn't do enough for someone like Benitez who rightly demands a lot from his players. This is of course just a theory and personally I'd like both of them gone with Defoe coming in and maybe another youngster.

Nando should go back to Spain, because he's never had it or cut it in the Premiership. But we just don't have the time or resources to keep a player who consistantly under performs and doesn't do enough for the team.

Fair enough argument.  Can't disagree with the fact that Cisse at least scores against the lesser teams and Morientes rarely looks like scoring at all.  If I were to choose one of them to stay until January it'd be Cisse.  Purely because with his pace he is capable of coming on with 20-25 minutes to go in games and damaging teams who are starting to tire.  The problem with him starting on the bench week-in week-out is his attitude - the toys will come out of the pram as they have so many times this season. 

I think that all things considered we are better off without both of these players.  But with quality strikers who are available few and far between, and with both Morientes and Cisse seemingly wanting to stay, I think replacing one of them this summer is more realistic.  We definitely don't want to see ourselves caught short again next season as far as strikers go.  I just think that despite Cisse's decent form recently he'll be the one to go, as there have been so many times he's infuriated Benitez this season with his on and off-field antics.

[Big Niall]

I don't rate either Morientes or cisse and even one good player coming in the summer would be an improvement. Morientes will be worth less every passing day as he gets older while as Cisse is young, some fool might think he'll improve

[The Specialist]

To be quite honest mate, you sound like a bluesh!te and I stil think that you know nothing about football, but the offer still stands. Put some facts on the table and we'll see what stands up to scrutiny (and just so you know, putting the word "fact" after something doesn't necessarily make it the truth).

To be quite honest, Oasis, with all due respect, you're an ar.sehole.

I'm only saying this because I remember this person insulting me when I aggresively put my opinion across and made light of one of his topics once, and now I come in this thread to see that he's obviously lost it and has little respect when debating anyone who disagrees with him. You're not "Stu the red", mate. You could see sense in his arguments, and for some reason people tolerated the fact he was rude about voicing them. What's with trying to put on the same routine? That's what I get when I read your posts in here, you trying to be somebody with your opinions to stand out - then crying and insulting people when someone doesn't agree with you. It's boring.  I've read your posts on here, and can say you are a somewhat knowledgable football fan - but you're just spouting off shi.te in this thread. Get over yourself.


As far as Morientes go, I'm a little bit surprised that he didn't get called up. Not because of his performances for us, merely because he's been a part of the set up for a while. In regards to him staying at LFC - I think he's had enough time to prove himself and hasn't impressed. If you look at Rafa's "failed" singings for us, the maximum he has given a player is a season and a half:

Nunez - Season
Pellegrino - Half a season
Josemi - Season and a half
 
Morientes has been with us since January last year. 18 months is sufficient time to know what you want to do with a player, and if he can offer you anything in the future. I hope Rafa keeps up this "policy" of quickly realizing his mistakes and letting the players who can't cut it go. In my opnion, Morientes hasn't done the business enough for us. I don't think I'm a bad "supporter" for saying that either. I support LFC, not Fernando Morientes. I want the best for the club, and I am entitled to my opinion. A neat turn forty yards out from goal, rather than an actual goal threat - is not what I want from a striker. In most games Morientes has played for us, he simply hasn't been a goal threat. Simple as. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he's simply not done enough to keep on persisting with him. Whether he can come good or not if we hold onto him for his whole contract, I don't know. I just don't see it happening,..

[stmichael]

Crouch is a good player but he isn't as good as Morientes is, fact!

Oh ffs sake lad, get a grip.

Alright, say for a second forget the stats. Forget the positive stats and forget the negative ones. Forget his past record, forget comparing him to Crouch, to Beattie, or to anyone else. None of that really matters. Just watch him play for us, on a regular basis, through the course of the season. Watch what he does when he gets the ball, watch how many headers he wins, how many chances he spurns, how many times he loses posession etc. You will no doubt see a few good moments along with all the bad. Then, (again without bringing his past record, stats, or the players around him into the equation) ask yourself whether we as a top english football club could do better than Morientes as a striker for 6mill.

If theres anyone out there who says no, we can't do much better...I would really like to hear from them.

Thank you.

[account deleted by request]

Anyone who watched Morientes for Real Madrid will tell you that he was never a target man like we try to play him - he played in a Teddy Sheringham type role lying deeper and creating the chances for Raul. Yes he's good in the air but he was never a target man. Real Madrid played most of their football on the ground not hopeful boot up field. He is a talented player with a good attitude and a decent work rate who is being played out of position as a target man. But unless you are willing to change the way the whole Liverpool team plays (which we cant do) he has to go. If he was a target man do you really think Real Madrid would let him go just after signing a great crosser of the ball in D. Beckham?
         So I am afraid its thanks and goodbye to Moro - I just wish it was thanks and a good buy

[73-1141222089]

Moro has world beating ability.... For me it's just a clear case that his game just doesn't suit the premiership..... He needs more time on the ball (whcih he doesn't get in England as we play at close to breakneck speeds) in order for his technical ability to shine.... In the slower leagues (and I don't mean this in a derogatory sense) his talents would definitely come to the fore....

He's been given enough chances but just hasn't managed to do the business for us..... and in the end its cost him a place in the World Cup squad.... Time to cut both his and our losses by letting him go.....

Too many people confuse his undoubted ability and the fact that he hasn't produced for us..... For crying out loud, even Veron couldn't cut it in the Premiership but he's a damn star and doing well in Italy.... where their pace is slower .... Does that make him a poor player? I think not...... just unsuited to the way we play here.

I feel for Moro as I've been an admirer of his game for quite a few years now..... But as the Yanks say.... It's time to cut bait on this particular big fish..... He'll do better in some one else's pond where the currents are not as swift....

I for one can't say that his "failure" was due to lack of trying.... He's worked his socks off for us whenever he's been on the pitch.... unfortunately most of the time his efforts didn't bear fruit....

For that, I'll say thanks for the effort Moro, but it's just not working..

[tubby]

Just seen that Mori hasn't made it into the Spanish provisional squad.

IMO he hasn't done enough for LFC, and Aragones has got it spot on. Having said that though, neither has Raul this season, and he's still going.

Your thoughts anyone?

I think its going to be a lot harder to sell him now. Before people still regarded him highly. Well i thought that was tghe situation anyway. But now im sure this has knocked a few mil of his price. He may only sell for 3 or 4 Mil at the most now.

[Sabre]

Bad Bob said something important

I will say this, though.  As much as Nando has disappointed me this season and as certain as I feel he's never going to come good for us...should Rafa choose to keep the faith, I'll get behind him.  I'd love to be proven wrong on this one.  Matter of fact, I'll happily hold my hand up this time next season if Rafa can do a Kewell with Nando and get him playing to his potential.

Well said.

This lines seem to be obvious, yet I think it's well said. Sometimes we discuss too much about players, and we tend to find scape goats when a couple of results aren't good, and we tend to create bad atmosphere around players.

This attitude of yours is important. As long as Mori gets the support of Anfield, and some claps to acknowledge the effort when he's subbed (and he has) I don't care anyone is too harsh in their critics. In fact I like harsh critics in forums, as long as the players receives support in the pitch.That's an important idea.

I also want to point out is that one thing I've seen in football is that some players seem to be different from one season to another just because of the men they have serving them Meaning, that with perhaps with a new  RW Morientes might score lots of goals. This seems bóllocks, but it's not, I've known strikers who has lowered tallies from 32 goals to 12 just because a man wasn't serving them any more (The case De Pedro - Kovacevic in my team, for instance, and many others).

Class is not lost in one year, and I'm of the school of thought that good football is universal, meaning that there must be certainly reasons for the Morientes failure so far, but I don't think it's true that he's not cut for this football or this team.

We'll see. So far if we attend to the minutes Rafa is giving him, cannot say Rafa lost confidence on him. Well, I haven't neither.

[stmichael]

i think a lot of people are under the misconception that morientes came here as a prolific goalscorer. he didn't. ok he had a sensational CL season for monaco and his goalscoring record for spain is exceptional, but he's never really been that prolific. infact he's always been more of a sheringham type player who plays a bit deeper from a main striker.

the talent is there. the goal against villa a couple of weeks back was class. the lob against boro earlier in the season was class. the header against fulham last season was class. the problem is we just haven't seen it consistently enough and i think it may now be too late, despite the fact that i thought he did quite well when he came on on saturday.