Liverpool strikers are better than chelsea's - Defenders to blame for lack of goals?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby TheoRacle » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:29 am

Frustrated as most are by our lack of goals this season and inspired by Sabre's question about where on the pitch our goals come from, I have done a little digging to try and get my head around where exactly our problem (if there is indeed one) lies with respect to our 'ineffectual' strikers.

I was somewhat surprised to find that it is actually our defenders who are responsible for our lack of goals this season! :oh:

OK so that and the title of this thread are throw away lines to get your attention, but statistically it is correct if you compare us against Chelsea using Opta stats. :pirate

I analysed the stats of the top six teams as the league stands today, ie Us, Chelsea, Man U, Spurs, Blackburn and Arsenal.

Surprisingly, our strikers actually out perform Crespo and Drogba if you calculate their goals as a percentage of total goals.

This is how the "Goals scored by who" summary appears now:

..................Strikers.....Midfield......Defenders...O/G...Total goals

Liverpool........34.38%......59.38%.......3.13%.....3.13%.....32
Chelsea..........30.77%......57.69%.......9.62%.....1.92%.....52

Just a pause here to point out that Liverpool and Chelsea are ranked 1st and 2nd respectively in both 'Possession held' and 'shots per game' at the moment.  It is interesting to see therefore that both our midfield and striking departments are contributing a higher proportion of total goals that the equivalent Chelsea players.  Our defenders however are lagging behind pointing to the 'set piece' area of our game perhaps?

Moving on to the teams below us and it is evident that their midfield sections are much less productive and/or their strikers bear much more responsibility...


..................Strikers.....Midfield......Defenders...O/G...Total goals

Liverpool........34.38%......59.38%.......3.13%.....3.13%....32
Chelsea..........30.77%......57.69%.......9.62%.....1.92%....52
Man Utd..........65.31%......22.45%......10.20%.....2.04%....49
Spurs............67.65%......20.59%.......8.82%.....2.94%....34
Blackburn........63.64%......27.27%.......6.06%.....3.03%....33
Arsenal..........53.85%......28.21%......15.38%.....2.56%....39

On face value, these stats indicate that Chelsea and Liverpool are more similar than I and perhaps others realised (or admit).  They also suggest that with the next 'poorest' team wrt to defenders scoring (being Blackburn with 6.06% of all goals) do so at nearly double the rate of our defenders we may have to look at why our guys aren't getting forward and chipping in with a few more.  Granted that the highest contribution from a defence belongs to Arsenal with just six goals (as opposed to our 1) but an extra 1 or 2 goals this season would have been handy against Charlton or Chelsea or Man U or Borough. All games where we dominated and had numerous corners!

I might even be so bold as to say that we need heading practice all round at the moment - we've only scored 2 headers (6.25% of all our goals) from headers so far this season as compared to Chelsea 7 (13.46%), Man Utd 8 (16.33%), Spurs 6 (17.65%), Blackburn 6 (18.18%) and Arsenal 6 (15.38%) - so much for the aerial threat of Morientes and Crouch (note that Sami and JC are hiding in the corner somewhere)!

It is not surprising then that our stat for goals scored from inside the 18 yard box suffers as well...

..................Inside box...Outside box...Penalties...Total goals

Liverpool........59.38%......31.25%.......9.38%...........32
Chelsea..........73.08%......19.23%.......7.69%...........52
Man Utd..........87.76%.......8.16%.......4.08%...........49
Spurs............82.35%......11.76%.......5.88%...........34
Blackburn........75.76%......12.12%......12.12%...........33
Arsenal..........79.49%......12.82%.......7.69%...........39


What is not surprising is the efficiency of our defensive tactics... with our super strong midfield we are the only team in the top six along with Chelsea to have not conceded a goal in the league from outside the penalty area! 100% of all our goals conceded have been scored from inside the penalty area, 11.76% of them from the penalty spot itself. In contrast, Man Utd, Spurs, Blackburn and Arsenal appear to allow much more space for the opposition having conceded 23.08%, 19.05%, 29.03% and 9.52% of their goals from distance respectively.


Whilst these stats are interesting (to me at least), I don't think the fact that our strikers are contributing a higher percentage of overall goals to the team than Chelsea's Drogba and Crespo excuses them from not converting more chances than they do. Maybe some heading practice and more effective set pieces would see both the stats for goals coming from inside the box and striker contribution and conversion rates increasing? 

Perhaps the only thing that can be said with any true conviction is that our defensive players (and the team in general) are not making the most of corners and free kicks however the debate is open as to whether this is caused by poor delivery or our finishing ability plus the 'goalkeeper MOM' effect.  I tend towards poor finishing and the goalkeeper MOM effect personally, as we record both the highest number of crosses and highest percentage crosses completed at 28.15 crosses per game(!) with 30% completion rate.  Delivery it seem is not necessarily the problem of a magnitude as perceived by some.  If we could push our conversion rate up to the average for these six teams (13.21%) we'd have 49 goals to our credit this season!   An extra 17 goals would sure be handy and make 2nd spot a hoe in I reckon.  That ****** "goalkeeper MOM' effect !!!! I'm sure theres been at least 17 world class saves made against us this season - may be that's the simple explanantion?

Bring on Benfica!  :buttrock
Last edited by TheoRacle on Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:47 am

You raise some interesting points.

The one I am particularly p*ssed off with is the opposition 'keeper's f*cking form. Why raise their game against us, but not sh*tski?


It makes no sense, but I bet we have played at least 10 games this season where the visiting/opposition goalie has been voted MOTM.

B*stards. :angry

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Postby el_stinger » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:48 am

The biggest stat that would probably be vital is that our conversion inside the 18 yard box is very poor compared with the other big 3. The strikers just aren't doing the job, and its not this season, but even when Owen was playing for us, the strikers just didn't put those easy balls away from inside the box.

We have had this problem since Rushie left, and the single striker that will score in excess of 20+ goals every season has not been dealt with in Houllier's reign, and we are still suffering from it. All in all, we need to replace 2-3 strikers in the summer, and get some experienced and hungry striker to come and bag braces every match. We have the rest of the squad which is more than capable, its time to finish the team off with some great strikers. Who? Only Rafa knows.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:58 am

el_stinger wrote:The biggest stat that would probably be vital is that our conversion inside the 18 yard box is very poor compared with the other big 3. The strikers just aren't doing the job, and its not this season, but even when Owen was playing for us, the strikers just didn't put those easy balls away from inside the box.

We have had this problem since Rushie left, and the single striker that will score in excess of 20+ goals every season has not been dealt with in Houllier's reign, and we are still suffering from it. All in all, we need to replace 2-3 strikers in the summer, and get some experienced and hungry striker to come and bag braces every match. We have the rest of the squad which is more than capable, its time to finish the team off with some great strikers. Who? Only Rafa knows.

I disagree with that.

Fowler was awesome in the area in his first spell with us. Don't forget Robbie still lays claim to the fastest 100 goals for LFC, and most of them were from inside the area.
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Postby el_stinger » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:08 am

My bad, I forgot to mention Robbie.

I agree with Robbie being quintessential as a main striker back in the day, but that's exactly it Lando, it was back in the day. We haven't found a replacement yet. Collymore, Heskey, Cissy, Mori, Camara, and tons of others haven't been able to produce what Owen and Fowler produced.

Comparing the stats of this season which TheOracle brought about, its easy to see where we fail, and thats in the 18 yard box. Owen would have gobbled up easily more than half of the chances that Crouch and Mori, especially in the early parts of the season.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:16 am

el_stinger wrote:My bad, I forgot to mention Robbie.

I agree with Robbie being quintessential as a main striker back in the day, but that's exactly it Lando, it was back in the day. We haven't found a replacement yet. Collymore, Heskey, Cissy, Mori, Camara, and tons of others haven't been able to produce what Owen and Fowler produced.

Comparing the stats of this season which TheOracle brought about, its easy to see where we fail, and thats in the 18 yard box. Owen would have gobbled up easily more than half of the chances that Crouch and Mori, especially in the early parts of the season.

True enough.

But then - Adi Akinbye would have scored more than Mori and Crouch!!!!!  :D  :down:
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Postby TheoRacle » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:33 am

I actually think we're a bit harsh by blaming it all on the strikers...  I think that the stats show that our set piece play leaves a bit to be desired... Only one goal from a defender all year speaks volumes when you consider the mamount of corners and fee kicks we've had.

Opposition goalkeepers to have had a very good season against us - if only half of those 10 MOM performances had been 'normal' we'd have at least another five to ten goals and in all likelihood a good percentage of these would have come from Mori, Crouch and Cisse.  Add another 2-3 goals each to their individual tallies and the current volume of complaints would seem unfounded.
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Postby el_stinger » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:45 am

To be fair, we shouldn't rely on defenders to score our goals. We shouldn't rely on midfielders to score our goals. Strikers get paid to score, and they haven't for a long time now.

But it is true we waste too many free kicks and corners.
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Postby TheoRacle » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:09 am

Funny though that 23.53% of all goals scored against us have been by defenders - Luisao, Ferdinand, Jaidi to name but three (all headers from set pieces too)! Although I agree that the principle job of a striker is to score goals, that does not mean that defenders do not have a contribution to make.  Lets face it, when the six yard box is packed with the opposition's defence at a corner or free kick, our guys have the responsibility to get in there and show why they are trusted to get their head to the ball first in their own penalty area.  We have somewhere around 6-7 corners every game and should have a better return for them IMHO. I dont have a stat for free kicks in the last third but I'm willing to bet we have had our fair share of them too.
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