Liverpool FC Forum

[Paul C]

"then Rafa has every right not to play him"

so Rafa should have let him go during the last transfer window. And i disagree that he had the chance to prove himself in the first place. He didn t play that much up front.
Trying to compare with the french league is irrelevant and even wrong : except chelsea, arsenal, manu and liverpool, the level is the same (exception with Lyon). It is a problem of adaptation : remember the mutu, veron, morientes etc etc.

Anyway, with the way rafa make his players play, even Shevshenko would be short of goals.
All i say is : what a big waste of money, talent and team spirit.
I don t get the point of the money anyway : it s about punishing him for not suiting rafa plans or not being good enough ? if he s that bad let him go or let him play. having him on the bench will just depreciate his value.
there is no rational position here (finance or sport)

Great points.  I remember seeing Cisse at Axuerre and I was real pleased that we manged to sign him.  I saw someone with pace, power and the ability to score all kinds of goals. Now I dont think people should look at the time before he broke his leg as a becnhmark.  Its not often players from Europe come in and hit it off straight away. You have to give them some time. Anyway the leg brake really come at the wrong time as to me it looked like Cisse was getting to the pace of the English Game.  This season was like Cisse starting again and in pre-season and in the CL qualifiers he looked real sharp and things were looking good.  Then came all the Owen speculation and Cisse seeing the club were trying to ship him out behind his back.  He then comes on as sub in a dreadful performance in the Super Cup and wins us the game.  Rafa is asked after the game about Cisse and the manager says "Maybe we will get more offers now".  What this would of done to Cisse's confidence who knows? Not being backed by the Manager cannot be good for any players confidence.

During the season Cisse has then played some games as a striker, more as a winger and not started many games.  Trying to find any form or consistency has virtually been impossible and he probably now miss out on a World Cup Place.

Why Rafa didnt tell him in Jan the situation and allow him to go on loan is bemusing.  I really dont see why Rafa kept a Player he has no intention to use as a striker unless injuries or suspensions make him.  For Cisse's career he will need to move in the Summer however for his sake I wouldnt let Liverpool dictate the move. Cisse should only go to a club he wants to play for and not the 1st club LFC accept a bid from.

I was so excited when he joinned but even before he broke his leg he looked average, the problem is that he only has pace and isn't a natural goal scorer, also his firsttouch is terrible! basically the negatives out weigh the possitives.

Regard loaning him out then that would have been pointless is the cluase in his contract is true (as Ciggy stated earlier in the thread)

[puroresu]

"then Rafa has every right not to play him"

so Rafa should have let him go during the last transfer window. And i disagree that he had the chance to prove himself in the first place. He didn t play that much up front.
Trying to compare with the french league is irrelevant and even wrong : except chelsea, arsenal, manu and liverpool, the level is the same (exception with Lyon). It is a problem of adaptation : remember the mutu, veron, morientes etc etc.

Anyway, with the way rafa make his players play, even Shevshenko would be short of goals.
All i say is : what a big waste of money, talent and team spirit.
I don t get the point of the money anyway : it s about punishing him for not suiting rafa plans or not being good enough ? if he s that bad let him go or let him play. having him on the bench will just depreciate his value.
there is no rational position here (finance or sport)

Great points.  I remember seeing Cisse at Axuerre and I was real pleased that we manged to sign him.  I saw someone with pace, power and the ability to score all kinds of goals. Now I dont think people should look at the time before he broke his leg as a becnhmark.  Its not often players from Europe come in and hit it off straight away. You have to give them some time. Anyway the leg brake really come at the wrong time as to me it looked like Cisse was getting to the pace of the English Game.  This season was like Cisse starting again and in pre-season and in the CL qualifiers he looked real sharp and things were looking good.  Then came all the Owen speculation and Cisse seeing the club were trying to ship him out behind his back.  He then comes on as sub in a dreadful performance in the Super Cup and wins us the game.  Rafa is asked after the game about Cisse and the manager says "Maybe we will get more offers now".  What this would of done to Cisse's confidence who knows? Not being backed by the Manager cannot be good for any players confidence.

During the season Cisse has then played some games as a striker, more as a winger and not started many games.  Trying to find any form or consistency has virtually been impossible and he probably now miss out on a World Cup Place.

Why Rafa didnt tell him in Jan the situation and allow him to go on loan is bemusing.  I really dont see why Rafa kept a Player he has no intention to use as a striker unless injuries or suspensions make him.  For Cisse's career he will need to move in the Summer however for his sake I wouldnt let Liverpool dictate the move. Cisse should only go to a club he wants to play for and not the 1st club LFC accept a bid from.

I was so excited when he joinned but even before he broke his leg he looked average, the problem is that he only has pace and isn't a natural goal scorer, also his firsttouch is terrible! basically the negatives out weigh the possitives.

Regard loaning him out then that would have been pointless is the cluase in his contract is true (as Ciggy stated earlier in the thread)

His 1st touch isnt that bad at all.  Whenever he mis controls a ball people magnify it a whole lot more forgetting about the 10 other times when his control was tight. 

His goalscoring ability to me is very good and his record speaks for itself.

There is no way Rafa only realised he wasnt good enough a few months ago.  If Rafa believed he wasnt good enough why drag this situation out for so long.   He could of told Cisse last summer that he wasnt in his plans and think he should move on instead of trying to sell him behind his back.  In January he could of said the same thing.  Why keep him at the club if you believe he isnt good enough?

[Paul C]

"then Rafa has every right not to play him"

so Rafa should have let him go during the last transfer window. And i disagree that he had the chance to prove himself in the first place. He didn t play that much up front.
Trying to compare with the french league is irrelevant and even wrong : except chelsea, arsenal, manu and liverpool, the level is the same (exception with Lyon). It is a problem of adaptation : remember the mutu, veron, morientes etc etc.

Anyway, with the way rafa make his players play, even Shevshenko would be short of goals.
All i say is : what a big waste of money, talent and team spirit.
I don t get the point of the money anyway : it s about punishing him for not suiting rafa plans or not being good enough ? if he s that bad let him go or let him play. having him on the bench will just depreciate his value.
there is no rational position here (finance or sport)

Great points.  I remember seeing Cisse at Axuerre and I was real pleased that we manged to sign him.  I saw someone with pace, power and the ability to score all kinds of goals. Now I dont think people should look at the time before he broke his leg as a becnhmark.  Its not often players from Europe come in and hit it off straight away. You have to give them some time. Anyway the leg brake really come at the wrong time as to me it looked like Cisse was getting to the pace of the English Game.  This season was like Cisse starting again and in pre-season and in the CL qualifiers he looked real sharp and things were looking good.  Then came all the Owen speculation and Cisse seeing the club were trying to ship him out behind his back.  He then comes on as sub in a dreadful performance in the Super Cup and wins us the game.  Rafa is asked after the game about Cisse and the manager says "Maybe we will get more offers now".  What this would of done to Cisse's confidence who knows? Not being backed by the Manager cannot be good for any players confidence.

During the season Cisse has then played some games as a striker, more as a winger and not started many games.  Trying to find any form or consistency has virtually been impossible and he probably now miss out on a World Cup Place.

Why Rafa didnt tell him in Jan the situation and allow him to go on loan is bemusing.  I really dont see why Rafa kept a Player he has no intention to use as a striker unless injuries or suspensions make him.  For Cisse's career he will need to move in the Summer however for his sake I wouldnt let Liverpool dictate the move. Cisse should only go to a club he wants to play for and not the 1st club LFC accept a bid from.

I was so excited when he joinned but even before he broke his leg he looked average, the problem is that he only has pace and isn't a natural goal scorer, also his firsttouch is terrible! basically the negatives out weigh the possitives.

Regard loaning him out then that would have been pointless is the cluase in his contract is true (as Ciggy stated earlier in the thread)

His 1st touch isnt that bad at all.  Whenever he mis controls a ball people magnify it a whole lot more forgetting about the 10 other times when his control was tight. 

His goalscoring ability to me is very good and his record speaks for itself.

There is no way Rafa only realised he wasnt good enough a few months ago.  If Rafa believed he wasnt good enough why drag this situation out for so long.   He could of told Cisse last summer that he wasnt in his plans and think he should move on instead of trying to sell him behind his back.  In January he could of said the same thing.  Why keep him at the club if you believe he isnt good enough?

His touch is bad mate and he doesn't link up very well with strike partners either, sound familiar.......... Baros, I don't want to sound like I hate the guy cos as I said I was so excited when he came here.

I'm sure Rafa wanted to see more of him to cast an opinion but he couldn't do that last season because of his break, this season he has seen enough to judge the player.

[Dannyboy]

i think Cisse is a good player. you cant just turn into a bad player overnight. it is also true though that he has not played his best football since joining the mighty reds. his confidence is low and i beleive he is not happy to be playing on the wing either.( he as well as any player should be happy to play for there club in any position imo) the 4 strikers we have at the moment are what Rafa is looking for as they all add something diffrent. he has said this when we signed fowler, what he needs to do is get cisse and morientes out in the summer but replace them with players that have the same attributes for example swap cisse for a fast striker. This of course is just my opinion but i liked Cisse before he came and despite a poor season a player doesnt just become a bad player.

[puroresu]

"then Rafa has every right not to play him"

so Rafa should have let him go during the last transfer window. And i disagree that he had the chance to prove himself in the first place. He didn t play that much up front.
Trying to compare with the french league is irrelevant and even wrong : except chelsea, arsenal, manu and liverpool, the level is the same (exception with Lyon). It is a problem of adaptation : remember the mutu, veron, morientes etc etc.

Anyway, with the way rafa make his players play, even Shevshenko would be short of goals.
All i say is : what a big waste of money, talent and team spirit.
I don t get the point of the money anyway : it s about punishing him for not suiting rafa plans or not being good enough ? if he s that bad let him go or let him play. having him on the bench will just depreciate his value.
there is no rational position here (finance or sport)

Great points.  I remember seeing Cisse at Axuerre and I was real pleased that we manged to sign him.  I saw someone with pace, power and the ability to score all kinds of goals. Now I dont think people should look at the time before he broke his leg as a becnhmark.  Its not often players from Europe come in and hit it off straight away. You have to give them some time. Anyway the leg brake really come at the wrong time as to me it looked like Cisse was getting to the pace of the English Game.  This season was like Cisse starting again and in pre-season and in the CL qualifiers he looked real sharp and things were looking good.  Then came all the Owen speculation and Cisse seeing the club were trying to ship him out behind his back.  He then comes on as sub in a dreadful performance in the Super Cup and wins us the game.  Rafa is asked after the game about Cisse and the manager says "Maybe we will get more offers now".  What this would of done to Cisse's confidence who knows? Not being backed by the Manager cannot be good for any players confidence.

During the season Cisse has then played some games as a striker, more as a winger and not started many games.  Trying to find any form or consistency has virtually been impossible and he probably now miss out on a World Cup Place.

Why Rafa didnt tell him in Jan the situation and allow him to go on loan is bemusing.  I really dont see why Rafa kept a Player he has no intention to use as a striker unless injuries or suspensions make him.  For Cisse's career he will need to move in the Summer however for his sake I wouldnt let Liverpool dictate the move. Cisse should only go to a club he wants to play for and not the 1st club LFC accept a bid from.

I was so excited when he joinned but even before he broke his leg he looked average, the problem is that he only has pace and isn't a natural goal scorer, also his firsttouch is terrible! basically the negatives out weigh the possitives.

Regard loaning him out then that would have been pointless is the cluase in his contract is true (as Ciggy stated earlier in the thread)

His 1st touch isnt that bad at all.  Whenever he mis controls a ball people magnify it a whole lot more forgetting about the 10 other times when his control was tight. 

His goalscoring ability to me is very good and his record speaks for itself.

There is no way Rafa only realised he wasnt good enough a few months ago.  If Rafa believed he wasnt good enough why drag this situation out for so long.   He could of told Cisse last summer that he wasnt in his plans and think he should move on instead of trying to sell him behind his back.  In January he could of said the same thing.  Why keep him at the club if you believe he isnt good enough?

His touch is bad mate and he doesn't link up very well with strike partners either, sound familiar.......... Baros, I don't want to sound like I hate the guy cos as I said I was so excited when he came here.

I'm sure Rafa wanted to see more of him to cast an opinion but he couldn't do that last season because of his break, this season he has seen enough to judge the player.

I dont buy that.  Considering he tried selling him in the Summer suggests to me Rafa was convinced before the season even started that he never fancied Cisse.  If Rafa would of told Cisse he wasnt in his plans I'm sure his agents would of found him a move in January.  On the flip side I'm sure Rafa believes Morientes hasnt got what it takes either but is to stubborn to admit it so blindly keeps playing him and plays crouch because he signed him.

[puroresu]

i think Cisse is a good player. you cant just turn into a bad player overnight. it is also true though that he has not played his best football since joining the mighty reds. his confidence is low and i beleive he is not happy to be playing on the wing either.( he as well as any player should be happy to play for there club in any position imo) the 4 strikers we have at the moment are what Rafa is looking for as they all add something diffrent. he has said this when we signed fowler, what he needs to do is get cisse and morientes out in the summer but replace them with players that have the same attributes for example swap cisse for a fast striker. This of course is just my opinion but i liked Cisse before he came and despite a poor season a player doesnt just become a bad player.

He does play on the RW and the talk of him moaning about playing their is all hearsay and rumours.  i dont believe it for a minute. Yes he would prefer to play central but if asked to play RW he will do so however that just means fans dont actually see the reason why he was signed which was goals.

[el_stinger]

I think also that Rafa played to the fans by keeping Cissy.

[Dannyboy]

Fair point. it would be interesting to see if Cisse goes to the World Cup and has a stormer. would it just boost up his price or would Rafa keep him and give him another go? i think he would do a good job if rafa was to show him the loyalty he gives to Nando. but then if the clause on his contract is true then it explains a few things.

[puroresu]

I think also that Rafa played to the fans by keeping Cissy.

Same could be said in his reason behind signing Fowler.

[Redman in wales]

i think the clause is the only viable explanation... if he started as many games as moro upfront then he would have scored 4 times as many as moro.

People slate him when he hasnt been given a chance. before he broke his leg he was just starting to show what he was doing in france. Then afterwards, its been stop start.

Crouch and 14 starts in a row to get one goal, Moro has had 16 starts in 18 games - & still not scored! - while cisse has played just once upfront since 2005. He hasnt had the row of games strikers need to gain confidence.

-He was also our top scorer till not so long ago, dispite the amount of starts he has-

He did have the skill, you dont score international goals and be the highest scoring player in france 2 years running if you dont know where the goal is!!

- so imo this contract clause is the only thing keeping him out the team... it has to be

[puroresu]

Thats the thing.  If Crouch and Morientes were scoring goals I and other Cisse fans wouldnt have an argument.  However that isnt the case and they just are not scoring goals at all yet Rafa persists with them and you wonder why?

[el_stinger]

I think also that Rafa played to the fans by keeping Cissy.

Same could be said in his reason behind signing Fowler.

Dont think you can put the two together. Cisse was given another chance in the faith of the fans, where Rafa had little doubt that he could use him in the squad.

The Fowler PR exercise wasn't played out in the media. You didnt know Fowler was even being contemplated until he signed. He was brought in to bring in some passion and pride to a somewhat self-destructing and lacklustre striker combination.

[Dannyboy]

I agree with your point stinger and would also add that the fowler purchase was so that the 4 strikers Rafa had all offered something diffrent. robbie is a class act and has loads of experiance in the EPL as well as a proven striker, he is a good finisher and a good option to have. Why not try Cisse and Fowler in a few games that we have left? it cant be any worse than who is playing the now.

[EddieC]

"then Rafa has every right not to play him"

so Rafa should have let him go during the last transfer window. And i disagree that he had the chance to prove himself in the first place. He didn t play that much up front.
Trying to compare with the french league is irrelevant and even wrong : except chelsea, arsenal, manu and liverpool, the level is the same (exception with Lyon). It is a problem of adaptation : remember the mutu, veron, morientes etc etc.

Anyway, with the way rafa make his players play, even Shevshenko would be short of goals.
All i say is : what a big waste of money, talent and team spirit.
I don t get the point of the money anyway : it s about punishing him for not suiting rafa plans or not being good enough ? if he s that bad let him go or let him play. having him on the bench will just depreciate his value.
there is no rational position here (finance or sport)

Great points.  I remember seeing Cisse at Axuerre and I was real pleased that we manged to sign him.  I saw someone with pace, power and the ability to score all kinds of goals. Now I dont think people should look at the time before he broke his leg as a becnhmark.  Its not often players from Europe come in and hit it off straight away. You have to give them some time. Anyway the leg brake really come at the wrong time as to me it looked like Cisse was getting to the pace of the English Game.  This season was like Cisse starting again and in pre-season and in the CL qualifiers he looked real sharp and things were looking good.  Then came all the Owen speculation and Cisse seeing the club were trying to ship him out behind his back.  He then comes on as sub in a dreadful performance in the Super Cup and wins us the game.  Rafa is asked after the game about Cisse and the manager says "Maybe we will get more offers now".  What this would of done to Cisse's confidence who knows? Not being backed by the Manager cannot be good for any players confidence.

During the season Cisse has then played some games as a striker, more as a winger and not started many games.  Trying to find any form or consistency has virtually been impossible and he probably now miss out on a World Cup Place.

Why Rafa didnt tell him in Jan the situation and allow him to go on loan is bemusing.  I really dont see why Rafa kept a Player he has no intention to use as a striker unless injuries or suspensions make him.  For Cisse's career he will need to move in the Summer however for his sake I wouldnt let Liverpool dictate the move. Cisse should only go to a club he wants to play for and not the 1st club LFC accept a bid from.

I agree that Rafa treated him badly at the start of the season, but it was down to Cisse to prove him wrong, and he certainly hasn't done anything to convince me.

Cisse has shown that on his day he can be a top player, maybe even as good as Henry. But half the time he doesn't seem to bother. There's 2 ways you can take criticism, you can go out there and prove everyone wrong, or you can let it get to you and let it effect your game. Too many times this season he's gone for the second option. He's had plenty of time to prove himself, and if there is an appearance clause then Rafa's right not to play him as we don't want to waste any more money on someone who's surely got to go in the summer. Tottenham were interested last year, Cisse + 5mill for Defoe perhaps?

[redmikey]

I THINK SOME PEOPLE ON HERE ARE PLAYING TO THE CROWD WHEN IT COMES TO CISSIE!

he is a pile of sh'ite, fast but shi'te, i would have ping pong any time because he actually looks like a footballer, i had never seen cissie play before he signed for us and reading on here  i thought we had signed the next henry,

sell him to everton, reading,or fulham for 10 mill or swap him with owen