Liverpool FC Forum

[Big Niall]

I agree with the help yourself stategy but being born white with a stable family from a middle class backround (me)makes it easier to succeed than a black baby from a one parent poor family. The white baby with the good backround does not have to be very good to do okay, being average is enough but the other one has to be very good to succeed and not everyone has the ability to be very good and top of the class etc.

If these countries spent less on weapons and space and more on building up there bad areas it would be better in the long run.

[puroresu]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

[puroresu]

Well the fact that the British left Africa and then let uneducated military dictators take charge has something to do with the mess Africa is in right now.  The people never chose these leaders, they never drew this fake borders and the colonists knew exactly what they were doing when they left Africa.  Isnt it funny that the colonists still loved to do business with these so called despots and made sure they kept control of the resources.

For f'ucks sake get your  head out of your a'rse , Have you ever been to Africa ?

Seems to me that whatever the "white colonialists" did you'll always find some reason to bleat .

In response to just some of the shi'te your spouting ,

"Well the fact that the British left Africa and then let uneducated military dictators take charge has something to do with the mess Africa is in right now."

Make up you mind ! On the one hand You blame the colonialists for being there AND on the other you blame them for then giving countries their independence and letting the African people choose their own governernments.

Britain generally held elections and the country was then turned over to the party that won those elections .

example

The Party led by Jomo Kenyatta , Kenya's equivalent of Nelson Mandela and leader of the Mau Mau who fought the british for independence won the Kenyan elections . Are you suggesting the British should have told the Kenyan people " we don't like the people you voted for so we're not giving you independence ?"


More sh'ite follows

Isnt it funny that the colonists still loved to do business with these so called despots and made sure they kept control of the resources.

  Your grasp of African economics is staggeringly purile.
What do you think would have happend to the newly independent countries of Africa if the former colonial powers had ceased all trade with them ?

I'm not saying that deals made were not favourable to the European powers, but surely thats what everyone seeks in a business transaction .If however the Europeans had ceased all business/trade with the newly independent countries the effect would have been catastrophic.

Until Africa begins to generate some genuine leaders instead of despots it will continue to dig itself deeper into the mire .But what the f'uck , like the President for Life Robert Mugabe you can continue to blame the europeans for all of Africa's problems.


(just turn a blind eye to stuff the african gov'ts are responsible for,like this)

"The systematic invasion of thousands of farms and businesses, wholesale arson, looting and murders have destroyed the economy of this once thriving country. Inflation throughout 2001 averaged 112 percent. Unemployment is officially over 60%. Tourism has evaporated. Literally 3 million Zimbabweans have fled the country, including some of the most skilled nurses, doctors, teachers, accountants and engineers. Before independence the Rhodesian dollar was much stronger than the US dollar. Today two Zimbabwe dollars are barely worth a half an American cent! "




"Make up you mind ! On the one hand You blame the colonialists for being there AND on the other you blame them for then giving countries their independence and letting the African people choose their own governernments."

First of all.  What independence?  Secondly, the fake borders the colonists drew caused huge problems as tribal lines were crossed. 

"The Party led by Jomo Kenyatta , Kenya's equivalent of Nelson Mandela and leader of the Mau Mau who fought the british for independence won the Kenyan elections . Are you suggesting the British should have told the Kenyan people " we don't like the people you voted for so we're not giving you independence ?"

No I'm not suggesting that but lets get real. The West has had no problem in forcing elected governments out of office.  i.e Algeria in 1991 where the Islamists won the election the French made sure they never got into office.  Iran before the Shah has an elected government which the British and US forced out to get the dictator Shah in Power.

"I'm not saying that deals made were not favourable to the European powers, but surely thats what everyone seeks in a business transaction .If however the Europeans had ceased all business/trade with the newly independent countries the effect would have been catastrophic".

What Im saying is you cant on the one had talk about tyranny and how bad it is then on the other hand trade with these tryants giving legitmatcy to the governments.  But hey the West doesnt mind despots as long as the despots on their side. 

As for Trade in Africa. Compound Interest will always leave the states crippled.  They have to pay back this crazy loan payments multi times over which they already paid back a long time ago. The system isnt fair and lets not forget the dumping of cheap products on the continent meaning the local traders struggle to trade.

(just turn a blind eye to stuff the african gov'ts are responsible for,like this)

"The systematic invasion of thousands of farms and businesses, wholesale arson, looting and murders have destroyed the economy of this once thriving country. Inflation throughout 2001 averaged 112 percent. Unemployment is officially over 60%. Tourism has evaporated. Literally 3 million Zimbabweans have fled the country, including some of the most skilled nurses, doctors, teachers, accountants and engineers. Before independence the Rhodesian dollar was much stronger than the US dollar. Today two Zimbabwe dollars are barely worth a half an American cent! "

Im not sticking up for Mugabe or any tyrant.  However at the same time dont care what the West says about it as like I said before a despot could be most brutal person their is but if he helps the western nations they dont give a damn about what he does to his citizens.  i.e. suddenly Gaddafi of Libya is back onside.

"Make up you mind ! On the one hand You blame the colonialists for being there AND on the other you blame them for then giving countries their independence and letting the African people choose their own governernments."

First of all.  What independence?  Secondly, the fake borders and the nations they created caused huge problems as tribal lines were crossed leading to war.

"The Party led by Jomo Kenyatta , Kenya's equivalent of Nelson Mandela and leader of the Mau Mau who fought the british for independence won the Kenyan elections . Are you suggesting the British should have told the Kenyan people " we don't like the people you voted for so we're not giving you independence ?"

No I'm not suggesting that but lets get real. The West has had no problem in forcing elected governments out of office.  i.e Algeria in 1991 where the Islamists won the election the French made sure they never got into office.  Iran before the Shah has an elected government which the British and US forced out to get the dictator Shah in Power.

"I'm not saying that deals made were not favourable to the European powers, but surely thats what everyone seeks in a business transaction .If however the Europeans had ceased all business/trade with the newly independent countries the effect would have been catastrophic".

What Im saying is you cant on the one had talk about tyranny and how bad it is then on the other hand trade with these tryants giving legitmatcy to the governments.  But hey the West doesnt mind despots as long as the despots on their side. 

As for Trade in Africa. Compound Interest will always leave the states crippled.  They have to pay back this crazy loan payments multi times over which they already paid back a long time ago. The system isnt fair and lets not forget the dumping of cheap products on the continent meaning the local traders struggle to trade.

(just turn a blind eye to stuff the african gov'ts are responsible for,like this)

"The systematic invasion of thousands of farms and businesses, wholesale arson, looting and murders have destroyed the economy of this once thriving country. Inflation throughout 2001 averaged 112 percent. Unemployment is officially over 60%. Tourism has evaporated. Literally 3 million Zimbabweans have fled the country, including some of the most skilled nurses, doctors, teachers, accountants and engineers. Before independence the Rhodesian dollar was much stronger than the US dollar. Today two Zimbabwe dollars are barely worth a half an American cent! "

Im not sticking up for Mugabe or any tyrant.  However at the same time dont care what the West says about it as like I said before a despot could be most brutal person their is but if he helps the western nations they dont give a damn about what he does to his citizens.  i.e. suddenly Gaddafi of Libya is back onside.

[66-1112520797]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

[Woollyback]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

yes, and it is also true that a few days ago in iran a guy was jailed for 2 years for having furry dice in his car. they were described as "gambling devices" and under sharia law must be punished. gimme capitalism over that sh*te any day of the week, and give me a society where women aren't treated as sub-human. give me a society with no honour killings, give me a society where raping your wife is illegal, give me a society where i can have my own beliefs without fear of punishment and prosecution for them 

give me the west over puroresu and his utopian bullsh1t

and give me bacon

[woof woof !]

First of all.  What independence?  Secondly, the fake borders the colonists drew caused huge problems as tribal lines were crossed. 

The West has had no problem in forcing elected governments out of office.  i.e Algeria in 1991 where the Islamists won the election the French made sure they never got into office.  Iran before the Shah has an elected government which the British and US forced out to get the dictator Shah in Power.



What Im saying is you cant on the one had talk about tyranny and how bad it is then on the other hand trade with these tryants giving legitmatcy to the governments.  But hey the West doesnt mind despots as long as the despots on their side. 

As for Trade in Africa. Compound Interest will always leave the states crippled.  They have to pay back this crazy loan payments multi times over which they already paid back a long time ago. The system isnt fair and lets not forget the dumping of cheap products on the continent meaning the local traders struggle to trade.

1.  Independence and Fake borders .

The colonial powers handed the government of the country back to the indigenous population , I think you'll find that's accepted as the general conditions for a country gaining it's political independence .

In sub saharan africa bfore the arrival of the western powers there were in fact no defined borders . Vast areas of the continent fell under the sway of different tribes . The size of these areas grew and diminshed depending on the military success of any given tribe.
The Europeans did indeed draw borders that encompassed an area of land occupied by more than one tribe . I don't however see one example of an African nation, having gained independence , scrapping the fake borders drawn by the europeans and dividing up the land into a number of mini states to accomodate each tribe .


2. Algeria and Iran .

I know very little of the history of Algeria and so unlike you I prefer not to comment on something I know f'uck all about.

As for the Shah and Iran . I thought the discussion was about colonial powers and their legacy ? Iran has never been colonised by a western power .
If you want to expand the discussion into one of "Political machinations used by various powers blah blah blah " I suggest you start a new thread as it could go on forever and I'd rather not participate as it's bound to consist of 90% half baked ill informed axe to grind ramblings of the barely educated.

Despots .
Refusal to trade with a country ruled by a despot/tyrant removes any influence you might have of curbing that individuals excessess .
It's ironic that the only country in africa that Britain has refused 100
% to trade with was the then WHITE governed Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) . When Britain decided to hold elections prior to handing over independence the white government declared unilateral independence , ie they broke away from the British commonwealth but held no elections , the whites continued in power for 14 more years whilst the country was engulfed in a guerilla war with African nationalists (one of who's leaders Mugabe, went on to become self proclaimed President for Life of the now stricken country)

Loans

If you can't make the payments don't borrow the money ! would be an easy answer   

However on this issue I do tend to agree with you . Much more could be done to assist the struggling african nations but maybe some african nations should consider spending less on arms and millionaire lifestyles for the governmental elite and really turn their attention to the welfare of the countries they represent.

Here endeth the history lesson .

Try living in Africa and actually understanding the ethos of the majority of the african people before you spout more tired banalities .

[48-1119859832]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

If that's the case then how comes there's so many muslims living in the western world?

[puroresu]

First of all.  What independence?  Secondly, the fake borders the colonists drew caused huge problems as tribal lines were crossed. 

The West has had no problem in forcing elected governments out of office.  i.e Algeria in 1991 where the Islamists won the election the French made sure they never got into office.  Iran before the Shah has an elected government which the British and US forced out to get the dictator Shah in Power.



What Im saying is you cant on the one had talk about tyranny and how bad it is then on the other hand trade with these tryants giving legitmatcy to the governments.  But hey the West doesnt mind despots as long as the despots on their side. 

As for Trade in Africa. Compound Interest will always leave the states crippled.  They have to pay back this crazy loan payments multi times over which they already paid back a long time ago. The system isnt fair and lets not forget the dumping of cheap products on the continent meaning the local traders struggle to trade.

1.  Independence and Fake borders .

The colonial powers handed the government of the country back to the indigenous population , I think you'll find that's accepted as the general conditions for a country gaining it's political independence .

In sub saharan africa bfore the arrival of the western powers there were in fact no defined borders . Vast areas of the continent fell under the sway of different tribes . The size of these areas grew and diminshed depending on the military success of any given tribe.
The Europeans did indeed draw borders that encompassed an area of land occupied by more than one tribe . I don't however see one example of an African nation, having gained independence , scrapping the fake borders drawn by the europeans and dividing up the land into a number of mini states to accomodate each tribe .


2. Algeria and Iran .

I know very little of the history of Algeria and so unlike you I prefer not to comment on something I know f'uck all about.

As for the Shah and Iran . I thought the discussion was about colonial powers and their legacy ? Iran has never been colonised by a western power .
If you want to expand the discussion into one of "Political machinations used by various powers blah blah blah " I suggest you start a new thread as it could go on forever and I'd rather not participate as it's bound to consist of 90% half baked ill informed axe to grind ramblings of the barely educated.

Despots .
Refusal to trade with a country ruled by a despot/tyrant removes any influence you might have of curbing that individuals excessess .
It's ironic that the only country in africa that Britain has refused 100
% to trade with was the then WHITE governed Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) . When Britain decided to hold elections prior to handing over independence the white government declared unilateral independence , ie they broke away from the British commonwealth but held no elections , the whites continued in power for 14 more years whilst the country was engulfed in a guerilla war with African nationalists (one of who's leaders Mugabe, went on to become self proclaimed President for Life of the now stricken country)

Loans

If you can't make the payments don't borrow the money ! would be an easy answer   

However on this issue I do tend to agree with you . Much more could be done to assist the struggling african nations but maybe some african nations should consider spending less on arms and millionaire lifestyles for the governmental elite and really turn their attention to the welfare of the countries they represent.

Here endeth the history lesson .

Try living in Africa and actually understanding the ethos of the majority of the african people before you spout more tired banalities .

After the collapse of the Ottoman Caliphate there were no borders in the Middle East either and the Europeans drew them as well.  Its called divide and conquer!!!  That is the greatest problem in the Muslim world but the West knew that to be the case and thats why they split they carved the Muslim world into nation states.  Like Africa none of these states of scrapped these fake borders but why would they when if it wasnt for these bogus borders these despots would have no rule (which the British and French gave them).

[puroresu]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

If that's the case then how comes there's so many muslims living in the western world?

well the muslim world is ruled by despots and tyrants.  Why would anyone given a choice choose to live under tyranny.  Did the Muslims choose these despots? Not at all!!!

[48-1119859832]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

If that's the case then how comes there's so many muslims living in the western world?

well the muslim world is ruled by despots and tyrants.  Why would anyone given a choice choose to live under tyranny.  Did the Muslims choose these despots? Not at all!!!

That's fair enough, I just asked seeing as you and you're generalising opinion for all muslims seem to condemn the western world, that's all.

[puroresu]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

yes, and it is also true that a few days ago in iran a guy was jailed for 2 years for having furry dice in his car. they were described as "gambling devices" and under sharia law must be punished. gimme capitalism over that sh*te any day of the week, and give me a society where women aren't treated as sub-human. give me a society with no honour killings, give me a society where raping your wife is illegal, give me a society where i can have my own beliefs without fear of punishment and prosecution for them 

give me the west over puroresu and his utopian bullsh1t

and give me bacon

1. Iran is not an Islamic State.  Their is no Islamic State in the world today. People may say Saudi Arabia or Iran are Islamic States but neither fit the criteria to be called an Islamic State.

2.  The Quran tells us we should not be oppressed by anyone and should spread Islam everywhere we go.  However that does not mean to seek war with everyone else or force anybody to accept Islam

3. Capitalism is a failed ideology.  The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  The majority of wealth stays with the minority of people and the so called trickle down economics has failed.  But if the West want capitalism and secularism thats fine.  Just dont force it on the rest of the world.

4. Women are treated as queens in islam.  Dont look at certain events and think they come from Islam.  1400 years ago Islam gave women the right to vote, work, divorce, inherit, education, own one's property.  That was way before the West gave women this rights. Just becasuse Islam doesnt see pornagraphy, women being able to pose naked and dress with as little clothed as possible as progress.  It does not mean the women are treated as sub-human.  The fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion the world and in the US for instance 6 out of 10 new reverts to Islam are women should tell you that Islam does not treat women as sub-human.

5.  Rape is forbidden in Islam.  Rape is and domestic abuse is rife in the West and although illegal the % of times an accused is found guilty in the west is far too low.

6.  Honour Killings have nothing to do with Islam and are infact cultural practices which happened before Islam was revealed.  In Arabia they used to bury there new born daughters until Islam was revealed to the masses.  However unfortuantly some of these cultural & tribal practices still happen today.

7. Islam could of wiped out the Jews and Christians quite easily however this communities lived in the Islamic State under the Khilafah are still in the Islamic World today.  The non-muslims are free to practice their religion.

[puroresu]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

If that's the case then how comes there's so many muslims living in the western world?

well the muslim world is ruled by despots and tyrants.  Why would anyone given a choice choose to live under tyranny.  Did the Muslims choose these despots? Not at all!!!

That's fair enough, I just asked seeing as you and you're generalising opinion for all muslims seem to condemn the western world, that's all.

Ok Ill try and clear this up.  By no means am I saying I hate the western world or western people. I am not saying that all.  I am glad this country for instance provides healthcare, education and gives people more or less the freedom to practice their faith.  Its unfortunate the country has pushed through some draconian laws which allow people to be held in jail for instance with no charge etc but overall things are not that bad.  Now my only beef with the West in not with the people but with the governments.  The continued propping up of bogus regimes, unnecessary wars, unfair institutions such as the UN, IMF and World Bank.

[kobashi]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

yes, and it is also true that a few days ago in iran a guy was jailed for 2 years for having furry dice in his car. they were described as "gambling devices" and under sharia law must be punished. gimme capitalism over that sh*te any day of the week, and give me a society where women aren't treated as sub-human. give me a society with no honour killings, give me a society where raping your wife is illegal, give me a society where i can have my own beliefs without fear of punishment and prosecution for them 

give me the west over puroresu and his utopian bullsh1t

and give me bacon

1. Iran is not an Islamic State.

2. Women are treated very well and are not treated as sub-human in the Islamic state.  Women don't have to show off there bodies to get somewhere.

3. Honour killings are not allowed in the Islamic State.  people are punished for this.

4. Raping of wives is forbidden in the Islamic State and again people will be punished for this.

5. Non Muslims are free to practise there beliefs in the Islamic state and are given the same rights as Muslims.

[Woollyback]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

yes, and it is also true that a few days ago in iran a guy was jailed for 2 years for having furry dice in his car. they were described as "gambling devices" and under sharia law must be punished. gimme capitalism over that sh*te any day of the week, and give me a society where women aren't treated as sub-human. give me a society with no honour killings, give me a society where raping your wife is illegal, give me a society where i can have my own beliefs without fear of punishment and prosecution for them 

give me the west over puroresu and his utopian bullsh1t

and give me bacon

1. Iran is not an Islamic State.

2. Women are treated very well and are not treated as sub-human in the Islamic state.  Women don't have to show off there bodies to get somewhere.

3. Honour killings are not allowed in the Islamic State.  people are punished for this.

4. Raping of wives is forbidden in the Islamic State and again people will be punished for this.

5. Non Muslims are free to practise there beliefs in the Islamic state and are given the same rights as Muslims.

and if you think that's how it all works in reality in islamic countries then i think you're being a little naiive

btw are there any purely islamic states in the world? i was under the impression that iran has moved much more down the islamic state path than it was say 20 years ago when tehran in particular was becoming almost "westernised"?

[puroresu]

Colonisation was terrible but values back then were different, any country with the resources was at it and Britain was the number one power at the time. Slavery is as old as mankind. Ireland's patron saint is St Patrick and he was taken to Ireland as a slave about 1700 years ago.

Some horrible things happened but we should try to put them right. Aborigines should have equal prosperity, opportunity, rights as whites and so should native americans and African americans.

A male black baby in USA is more likely to go to jail than college. During slavery the strong males were encouraged NOT to raise their children and today many black men in america still leave their children, add this to poverty, discrimination and low expectation and the end result is obvious.problems today do have roots in things that happened a long time ago.

Colonisation might not be the problem but how the Europeans left without a proper democratic structure behind is.

The New Orleans disaster shows you that the Black male in the US is treated as 2nd class.  It was disgusting how the wealthiest nation on the planet just let their own citizens suffer like that.

You are right that before it was communism and now its Islam.  Islam is seen as a threat as it goes against the values of the west. i.e Captialism.  Islam challenger capitalism and has its own economic, social and political system.  Its more than just a religion, its an ideology.  There is nothing wrong with this and we the Muslims should be able to live by Islamic values in the Muslim lands. Muslims dont want a state which is run by bandits. We want a state in the Muslim world where the government is accountable, the wealth and resources are distributed fairly, education and healtcare is free for all, the state's army is strong and can resist invasion and a state which will be prosperous for all.  Most people all over the world want this, however the difference is the Muslims dont see Capitalism as the answer.  We see Islam as the solution and thats something the powers that be in the West cannot accept. An Islamic Caliphate would mean the West loses its control of the resources in the Muslim world (oil) and thats something they cant let happen.

Is it true though that in the Khran its tells Muslims or Islam to take over the world ?

yes, and it is also true that a few days ago in iran a guy was jailed for 2 years for having furry dice in his car. they were described as "gambling devices" and under sharia law must be punished. gimme capitalism over that sh*te any day of the week, and give me a society where women aren't treated as sub-human. give me a society with no honour killings, give me a society where raping your wife is illegal, give me a society where i can have my own beliefs without fear of punishment and prosecution for them 

give me the west over puroresu and his utopian bullsh1t

and give me bacon

1. Iran is not an Islamic State.

2. Women are treated very well and are not treated as sub-human in the Islamic state.  Women don't have to show off there bodies to get somewhere.

3. Honour killings are not allowed in the Islamic State.  people are punished for this.

4. Raping of wives is forbidden in the Islamic State and again people will be punished for this.

5. Non Muslims are free to practise there beliefs in the Islamic state and are given the same rights as Muslims.

and if you think that's how it all works in reality in islamic countries then i think you're being a little naiive

btw are there any purely islamic states in the world? i was under the impression that iran has moved much more down the islamic state path than it was say 20 years ago when tehran in particular was becoming almost "westernised"?

There are no Islamic States in the world today.  Some may calim to be but none are.  Any state where the leader is not held accountable for one is not an Islamic State.  Any state which does not use Sharia is not an Islamic state.  You see things such as adulturers being sentanced to death or alchol drinkers  being punished, women being banned from driving (saudia arabia), theives getting hands chopped off in places such as Iran or Saudi Arabia but at the same time their judicary are not independent of government, they use interest based banking systems and basically choose to use Sharia when they want and leave it out when they want.  This isnt allowed in a true Islamic State. 

We know that the in the Islamic World in many cases women are treated badly, courts are Biased to men, and so on.  However what do u expect from tyrannical rule

There are no Islamic States in the world today.  Some may calim to be but none are.  Any state where the leader is not held accountable for one is not an Islamic State.  Any state which does use Sharia is not an Islamic state.  You see things such as adulturers being sentanced to death or alchol drinkers  being punished, women being banned from driving (saudia arabia), theives getting hands chopped off in places such as Iran or Saudi Arabia but at the same time their judicary are not independent of government, they use interest based banking systems and basically choose to use Sharia when they want and leave it out when they want.  This isnt allowed in a true Islamic State. 

We know that the in the Islamic World in many cases women are treated badly, courts are Biased to men, and so on.  However what do u expect from tyrannical rule