Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

in 2003 I had no kids and wasn't too worried about myself 'YOLO', but now.... I wanna kill someone

Benny's available all this week.   :eyebrow

[babu]

Today is much better.

KK you are seeing haze, but as at 7 am in KLIA the API was around 100. Yesterday it was hovering around 300 to 400.

Its getting better, but they predict this to gone on for several months

[woof woof !]

Today is much better.

KK you are seeing haze, but as at 7 am in KLIA the API was around 100. Yesterday it was hovering around 300 to 400.

Its getting better, but they predict this to gone on for several months

Several Months ! Jeezuz ! I imagine that's a major health hazard for the old and the very young.

What's the position of the various governments involved ?. Any of them threatening the other yet ?

[babu]

Today is much better.

KK you are seeing haze, but as at 7 am in KLIA the API was around 100. Yesterday it was hovering around 300 to 400.

Its getting better, but they predict this to gone on for several months

Several Months ! Jeezuz ! I imagine that's a major health hazard for the old and the very young.

What's the position of the various governments involved ?. Any of them threatening the other yet ?

Not much Singapore can do. Indonesia supplies them electricity, water and LNG Gas.

Malaysia also have to thread carefully, we have substantial investments over there, especially in the plantation sector. If fact Indonesia are blaming these hotspots on foreign owned plantations. However, all these foreign owned plantations are members and certified by RSPO, they cannot do slash & burn otherwise they will lose their RSPO certification and therefore not be able to export to Europe.

The most likely cause is the local small holders. Each foreign owned plantation needs to allocate roughly 20 percent of the area to small holders and are required to by their oil palm bunches, they however have no control on how the small holders grow and re-plant their oil palm. And since small holders lack capital, the quickest way to clear matured palm trees is to slash and burn. Normally the effect of this is small, but in the dry season, the fires rage out of control and into the surrounding areas, ie the plantation itself.

Hence Indonesia blaming Malaysia and Singapore owners for this. But regardless who is the cause, those found guilty must be punished, doesn't matter where they are from. In this area Indonesia is failing badly, hence the deflection tactics. Their enforcement and controls suck.

I mean the Indonesia minister said something along these lines lately, "I cannot see why Malaysia and Singapore are blaming us, when it is their own companies causing the haze, they would be better off trying to help the situation than rather complaining about Indonesia to the world", 2 minutes later he said this when Malaysia offered to send over helicopter & plane water bombers as well as cloud seeding planes, he said, "we don't need any help to contain this situation"

I mean the worst thing is this happens every year, not this bad for sure, but we get it every year, and suddenly everyone's surprised. It pisses me off.

I reckon one year, the haze will be so thick and concentrated on a small area that an entire town will be wiped out.

[babu]

The above table is the Air Polution Index, below is an excerpt from Wikipedia. See the part in BOLD

From Wiki:

The Air Pollution Index (API) is used by the government to describe the air quality in Malaysia. The API value is calculated based on average concentrations of air pollutants, namely sulphur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide, ozone and fine dust (PM10). The air pollutant with the highest concentration is the pollutant that will determine the value of the API. Fine dust is typically the dominant pollutant.[12]

The API is reported on a scale starting from 0. A score of 0 to 50 is considered good, 51 to 100 is moderate, 101 to 200 is unhealthy, 201 to 300 is very unhealthy and anything higher than 300 is hazardous. A state of emergency is declared in the reporting area if the API exceeds 500, which occurred in Port Klang in 2005. Non-essential government services are suspended, and all ports and schools in the affected area are closed. Private sector commercial and industrial activities in the reporting area might be prohibited.

On June 23, 2013, the air pollutant index (API) in Muar, Johor has spiked to 746 as of 7.00am, which is more than twice the standard hazardous levels according to the Department of Environment website on Sunday. Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak has agreed to declare emergency status in Muar and Ledang with immediate effect after the API readings reached more than 750. He stated that the haze is due to the open-burning in Indonesia and he offered cloud seeding for them. However the Indonesian Environment Minister Balthasar Kambuaya has identified eight companies with Malaysian links that are being investigated for burning in Riau and Jambi, that has led to the haze that is choking neighbouring countries Malaysia and Singapore. All schools in Selangor and Kuala Lumpur are also called to close for a day due to the haze situation worsening as of 5pm. The highest API ever recorded in Malaysia was in Sarawak in 1997 with a reading of 860. The Minister of Natural Resources and Environment Minister Datuk Seri G. Palanivel was flayed by Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng for prioritising the pandas more than Malaysians, a RM25 million exhibition centre will be completed by November and two pandas will be transported from China. The minister also announced that he would be meeting his Indonesian counterpart this Wednesday to discuss about solutions to overcome the haze problem.[13][14]

[babu]

State of emergency called if API exceeds 500, but a couple of days ago it exceeded 740 !!!

It will kill an entire town one day, like a rolling fog of death, killing everything in its path.

[Benny The Noon]

Don't China ( in their cities ) have a permanent high API value ? Can hardly ever see the sun or blue sky through the smog

[babu]

Don't China ( in their cities ) have a permanent high API value ? Can hardly ever see the sun or blue sky through the smog

China is not very transparent and have recently change their index to some called the air quality index. So it's hard to compare.

But lets say Hong Kong, over the last 10 years the levels have exceeded 200, a couple of times. Nothing compared to the sh.it we are facing here. And besides its a different type of pollution, theirs is mainly industrial pollution, this is actually choking fire smog pollution. The smell itself is acrid.

[woof woof !]

Smog in Singapore

[Benny The Noon]

Blimey that looks awful

[laza]

And all for Palm oil plantations

Why won't anyone think of the orang un tans

[babu]

And all for Palm oil plantations

Why won't anyone think of the orang un tans

Laza, I understand and appreciate the sentiment. But this issue is not caused by primary forest deforestation. The fires are started to clear mature low yield palm.

If the plantation or plot is properly managed, there is no reason for this to happen. In fact there is a good market for the pulp of low yielding trees to be used in biofuel.

unfortunately, small holders don't have the upfront capital, training, or incentive to go down this route.

[bunglemark2]

I've a bunch of guys working for me in SGP at the moment. They're telling me it's pretty grim alright. Some with young kids too.... Not nice.

[babu]

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/indonesia-is-not-afraid-of-malaysia-or-singapore-says-its-president

Indonesia is not afraid of Malaysia or Singapore, says its president


June 27, 2013

There is a new haze being generated by Indonesia – on whether it’s sorry.

First Indonesian ministers talked tough to Malaysia and Singapore, the two countries most hurt by the haze, with the harshest words aimed at their smallest neighbour.

One minister said there would be no apology to then hard-hit Singapore and another even called Singapore “childish”.

Then in a surprise turn of events, the President of Indonesia Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono apologised to Malaysia and Singapore, which went down well with his neighbours, but in his own country, not so much.

The latest, tough words again. This time from the President himself, quoted in the Jakarta Post headline yesterday, “Indonesia is not afraid of Malaysia or Singapore.”

All in the space of seven days.

Yudhoyono told the media in a press conference yesterday that he monitored social media after he apologised to the Malaysian and Singaporean governments and noticed that people thought Indonesia was afraid of its neighbours.

The influential national daily quoted his response to this: “There is no any sovereign state that should be afraid of other countries.”

It was quite a different tone when Yudhoyono apologised to the neighbours on Monday evening, when he said: “For what has happened, as President, I say sorry and seek the understanding of our relatives in Singapore and Malaysia.

“Indonesia had no intention to cause this. And we will continue to bear responsibility to overcome what has happened.”

That sparked an uproar in the media with Republika daily saying he had "hurt the people", and another, Media Indonesia, saying he had "dragged down national pride".

Politicians and the public decried the Indonesian head’s apology as submissive.

The president’s Monday apology followed strong words from his Foreign Affairs Minister Marty Natalegawa on Friday, who insisted Indonesia will not apologise to Singapore. The minister was quoted on Friday by kompass.com, “The Singaporean government must be aware that we have done all we can to tackle this haze problem. Indonesia has been dealing with this for years and improvements have been made.”

The Coordinating Minister for People's Welfare Agung Lakson even called Singapore childish for its anxiety over the haze.

“Singapore shouldn't be like children, in such a tizzy,” he told a press conference last Thursday.

Yesterday the President also warned off his own countrymen to keep the haze issue separate from other homeland territorial issues.

Noting that some tried to connect the problem of haze to an issue over Ambalat territory, he said the government would keep struggling to defend the territory.

“I am telling you firmly that in terms of state sovereignty, territorial integrity, and other national interests, there has never been a compromise,” said Yudhoyono.

He was speaking at a press conference at Halim Perdanakusuma airport in East Jakarta. Yudhoyono also said that his government would defend the rights of migrant Indonesian workers in Malaysia through diplomatic channels. – June 27, 2013.

[babu]

This statement:

“Singapore shouldn't be like children, in such a tizzy,” he told a press conference last Thursday.


I'm just like, WOW.

We have 6 confirmed deaths now in Malaysia directly attributable to the haze. Who knows how many more?

How many deaths before we are justifiably allowed to be in a tizzy?