Liverpool FC Forum

by **Judge** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:38 pm

LFC #1 wrote:
Judge wrote:i think the top three worst offenders for fan violence are:

1 Holland
2 Turkey
3 Belgium/Germany (tied)

Add Argentina to that list as well. Around 140 people have been killed at football matches in Argentina over the last 70 or so years I believe.

Football violence just isn't on. Passion and a certain level of hatred is ok, but to go that step further and injure/kill opposition fans is just not on, no matter what team you support.

tell that to millwall and cardiff supporters :laugh:

by **LFC #1** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:45 pm

those fellas are more interested in causing havoc than supporting their club. FFS some of them just go for a fight and don't even go to the game, supporters my arse, brainless :censored:

more like.

by **A.B.** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:46 pm

Turks are not at fault, the Swiss fecker who kicked the Turkish assistant coach is the one who should get his ar$e kicked.

by **Mikz** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:02 am

I agree with Lfc1-a certain level of hatred is ok. I have to admit,in many days of my youth I did enjoy a bit of unfriendly banter during the irish league games -especially when the football you wer watching was so :censored:

bad.

I remember at an irish cup final, the game was over and 7 or 8 skinheads climbed onto the pitch from the glentoran end and motioned to the Linfield fans to come and join them :laugh:

it was a comedy-oh theres another one down-then the keystone cops joined the fray.Another time, at the Oval,standing waiting on the kick-off and someone shouted LOOK OUT!! and bang down came the rafters from above,that 2 fans and kindly unbolted - The game went over -everyone went home laughing and all was forgotten . Now I know someone couldve got seriously hurt there but it isnt the same as setting out to kill someone. Its a highly organised thing now makes ya wonder why tho? Surely the thrill of seeing such good football and star players should be enough,especially if it happens inside the stadium and panics so many people. :no

They all must be off their heads,just the thought of being caught by them foreign police should be enough to put anyone off.

by **greenred** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:51 am

Big Niall wrote:I hadn't heard this but was going to start a new thread saying well done to the swiss for ensuring we don't have those fukking turks at the world cup.

When Ireland were in a play off with them a few years back the second leg was in Turkey. Their FA refused to sell the tv rights so we could watch the game in Ireland (they charged about 5 times the normal).

then they started a fight, including their fans and security against the Irish players when the final whistle went - and Turkey had won the game and qualified!

A nation of scumbags (obviously not every turk), delighted they're not going.

How come FIFA call it passion of fanatical support when they do it but English are hooligans when they do it. Don't allow those pr1cks into the EU.

My only experience of Turkish football was at an Ireland match as well.We played them in 1991 in Istanbul.We won,3-1,but the scumbags in the stands above us werent happy at all.They spent the entire match pis.sing down on us,flinging bottles,and worst of all(im not making this up) flinging paper bags filled with sh.it.There`s something in their culture that takes a defeat on home soil as a terrible insult.They just dont get the idea of International sport at all.Ban them,they`ve had enough chances.

by **66-1120597113** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:04 am

Mikz wrote:I agree with Lfc1-a certain level of hatred is ok. I have to admit,in many days of my youth I did enjoy a bit of unfriendly banter during the irish league games -especially when the football you wer watching was so bad.
I remember at an irish cup final, the game was over and 7 or 8 skinheads climbed onto the pitch from the glentoran end and motioned to the Linfield fans to come and join them it was a comedy-oh theres another one down-then the keystone cops joined the fray.Another time, at the Oval,standing waiting on the kick-off and someone shouted LOOK OUT!! and bang down came the rafters from above,that 2 fans and kindly unbolted - The game went over -everyone went home laughing and all was forgotten . Now I know someone couldve got seriously hurt there but it isnt the same as setting out to kill someone. Its a highly organised thing now makes ya wonder why tho? Surely the thrill of seeing such good football and star players should be enough,especially if it happens inside the stadium and panics so many people. They all must be off their heads,just the thought of being caught by them foreign police should be enough to put anyone off.

Aye Mikz!! There was some great banter in the Irish league then!
Windsor Park was great crack when Cliftonville and the Glens came!
We used to go every week when we was about 12.It was all just slagging and songs though!
The fans never really could get at eachother as they walk the away fans down a wire cage onto the Boucher Road and onto their buses!
The only trouble or violence i seen was the RUC getting it!
Poor peelars eh?? They got it bad from both sides! :laugh:

by **Judge** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:16 am

A.B. wrote:Turks are not at fault, the Swiss fecker who kicked the Turkish assistant coach is the one who should get his ar$e kicked.

its strange then, that fifa may be banning turkey

by **Big Niall** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:24 am

People of the EU should not allow that Fukking country in, they have nothing in common with us, why not allow Iran in?

I wish they were banned from international football at club and international level. Hate them. :angry:

by **Mikz** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:01 pm

cant stand them either. My mates just back from holidays there and hes had wild trouble with them trying to marry his 12 yr old daughter :laugh:

Thats fcuking not on like, imagine if some guy over in this country did that -hed be locked up.

by **Judge** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:16 pm

Mikz wrote: cant stand them either. My mates just back from holidays there and hes had wild trouble with them trying to marry his 12 yr old daughter Thats fcuking not on like, imagine if some guy over in this country did that -hed be locked up.

we got an offer for our 13yr old 3year back in an arab country.

i was hopping mad :veryangry

, but they thought it was normal. They are pervs, as far as my culture tells me

keep Turkey out

by **Benny** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:28 pm

some of you simply have no idea what really happened. The turk TV and unfortunately CNN and most of your TV Channels are ONLY showing the kick from Huggel.When you look at the whole video you can see that the "innocent" turkish official kicks a swiss player first, without any reason.

download here (klick on "free" then wait 15 seconds and click download "macsonrasi.wmv")

I thought Huggel kept it quite civil, most of us would have landed a right hook on the w.anker's face.

the rest in short form : -Swiss arrive at Istanbul Airport. 2 and a half hours in the custom office -without getting their luggage they left the airport accompanied by hundreds of insulting fanatic turks -Swiss bus attacked from the airport to the hotel several times with stones and eggs -Swiss training session cancelled. All the stuff for training still at airport - then the match, thousands booo the swiss national hymn, no one could hear it (but ok, that was the revenge for the whistles in Bern) -a lot of fouls and provocations from the turks, referee consistently abused - sticks, coins and lighters raining the whole match -after the game the turkish players, coaches, SECURITY GUARDS AND POLICEMEN pursue the Swiss who wanted to flee in their cabin as fast as they can (exactly the same happened two years ago in a play-off match against the german U21, 5 germans injured) -foreign media who wanted to film the battle were beaten and hassled by turkish security, in one case live to see in a german newschannel -Fights, most notably Grichting who pis.sed blood (hospital), nearly every Swiss was hit -they had to lock the cabin door for more than 2 hours because they couldn`t trust the security any more -from the stadium to the hotel and the to the airport the bus is attacked again

enough said.

This had nothing to do with football, it was war. Respect to the young swiss team going throuh all this.

And shame to the turkish officials and turkish media for blaming ONLY the swiss for all that incidences. Where the Turks are concerned it's everybody elses fault as they're always victims. They seem incapable of accepting responsibility for anything.

that`s it, sorry for my english, schooltime`s long ago

cu in Germany soon

by **LFC #1** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:09 pm

terrible that, Fifa really need to look at Turkey, as well as several other nations with this despicable behaviour and implement harsh penalties. The double standards are terrible, if it had been England they probably would've banned them from playing in the WC or something, whereas nothing will happen at all with the Turkey situation no doubt.

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:46 pm

Hi all again, after a long break!..

There are lots of things to talk about, but first Big Niall and Mikz; stop to treat like freak racists!!!

Yea,we made some mistakes that night, i dont ignore them...Turkey must be fined/penaltied by UEFA or FIFA.We deserved it.

But, the word 'violence' ?.. There wasnt any violence or smthng!!!..Thats important!

Everyone talk about the 2nd game-played in Istanbul. But here is the question:
What happened before/during/in the end of the first game-played in Bern?! Why were our supporters(i was there too) so 'reactive' to the Swiss players/directors?..

The swiss side treated more and more worse in Bern, what we did in Istanbul was like a dwarf just beside a giant..Nobody talks about it-including international press, why?..

The answer is simple; we played vs. the centre of the world football..They made everything to digest us in Bern: In airport, during training, before game, during game and at the end of the game...And the neutral referees,who are appointed for international games by FIFA-based in Switzerland, made everything easier for Swiss team at the both legs of the round...

Anyway..we deserved some punishments, thats the normal thing..But Switzerland must be fined too, for the both games..

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:53 pm

And my Swiis mate; be grateful to your luck, our stupid defence, 'your' referees and finally 'Blatter the Swiss' !.. :Oo:

Good luck in Germany..

:sleepy:

by **Benny** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:54 pm

The swiss side treated more and more worse in Bern, what we did in Istanbul was like a dwarf just beside a giant..Nobody talks about it-including international press, why?..

I`m getting sick of this bulls.hit..

sth. interesting to read for you...written by an accepted TURKISH JOURNALIST :

Instead of beating the Swiss, we wound up beating ourselves..

by Mehmet Ali Birand

The Swiss were more serious and more focused. They didn't procrastinate over the work that needed to be done. We, on the other hand, were reckless and wasteful. We created problems for ourselves. We didn't try to find solutions until the last moment. And we were unable to do it in the end. We can't be angry at anyone. Those who trip themselves up should not cry.

Instead of beating the Swiss, we wound up beating ourselves...

Those who trip themselves up shouldn't cry.

Turkey, who could have beaten the Swiss team with great ease, instead sent the Swiss on their way to the World Cup. In the end, these are two very different countries with societies that reflect the principles which guide their daily lives and their perspectives on the world. The Swiss were seriously prepared for the match. Their performance in the Bern match in particular showed how closely they had examined our team and how carefully they had prepared. They played systematically and with precision. By winning 2-0 in Bern, they grabbed a huge advantage. They had no bigger football stars than we did, though. They were not a sparkling team. They were only average, but because they planned their game so well, they won. And that's what is important, isn't it?

We, on the other hand, acted in accordance with our society.

We created a giant problem for ourselves by losing the match in Bern 2-0. We left what we should have taken care of that day, leaving the real work for Istanbul. We wasted our opportunity there. We made our work harder.

We did exactly what we shouldn't have done.

Despite everything, we came to a point where we were only one step from victory. One single goal would have changed everything. And we were punished for not doing in Bern what we should have done, for leaving the real work to Istanbul. And now, the Swiss have achieved their goal and can continue their march to the World Cup.

And as for us, we can blame the referee or curse our misfortune. We will look in other places for people to blame. We will say we lost but "maintained our honor." Actually, this match was an interesting model in that it showed the difference between two societies in terms of their structures, their mentalities and their seriousness in approaching the job at hand.

We lost, the Swiss won. Instead of beating the Swiss, we should beat our knees.

We were rude to the Swiss:

Well, the match is over and now we can speak openly. We can finally argue the truth without digressing into lies.

Starting with the National Teams' leaders and including the media and fans, we made many mistakes in the last couple of matches with Switzerland. We exaggerated many things. For example, the Turkish National Team was not treated badly in Bern nor were they here. The terrible treatment that was reported never occurred.

I spoke to journalists who traveled with the team to Switzerland and back. Here is what Cengiz Semercioglu wrote for the Hurriyet: “If I hadn't seen the match in Switzerland myself, I might have believed the reports. Not even the slightest fight occurred. Fatih Terim says that "they whistled during our national anthem." Well, the same thing happens in Turkey during every match, and even during European Cup matches. While we made the Swiss football team wait 90 minutes to get through passport control, the Turkish team, and even the Turkish fans, passed through immigration in Switzerland in five minutes. I'm not joking. I have been to tens of countries, and the fastest immigration I've ever passed through was at the Swiss airport. On top of that, statements by Terim and Davut Disli only aggravated the fans' behavior. At the airport in Turkey, people were holding posters with swear words directed at Swiss player Frei. I can only imagine what would appear in the newspapers here if the same were done to us. But the same newspapers, which protested the slightest provocation from the Swiss, have published headlines like "Pisvicre," (Dirty Switzerland). As someone who went to Switzerland and watched the match there, I can comfortably say that they did not deserve this treatment from us."

Cengiz is one of the few Turkish journalists who can write the truth without being afraid. We were so tense, as a society, before this match that it could have ended catastrophically. We forgot, somehow, that in the end, it was only a match. We turned it into a life-or-death situation.

And we really exaggerated the situation with the whistling during our national anthem. We do much worse things here in Turkey. Sometimes we rain down the worst of swear words on other teams' players while their national anthems play.

From the moment they set foot in Istanbul, with the cheers and the pre-match shows, just about the only thing we didn't do to the Swiss team was to beat them up. We brought the situation to the point of physical aggression, though. We created an atmosphere of "good, if we scare them, we'll beat them." We seemed to believe that the louder we shouted from the stands, the more goals we would score.

During the match itself, the stadium's loudspeakers began to blast out directives: "OK, whistle, OK now, stand up!" It was as though we wanted to whip the fans into a frenzy and then interject with pleas like "Don't even think of throwing anything onto the pitch!"

Well, we not only lost a place in the World Cup, we also failed the test at hand. Thank God there were no accidents.

We should not have tried to hide our lack of success, our shortcomings, in this manner.

Swearing, throwing eggs, kicks and punches... The arrogance of some of the Swiss team prior to and after the matches didn't necessitate any of these things.

And so, we didn't carry it off this time. It's only another four years until the next World Cup.

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