Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:44 pm

But if a person holds the countries passport and hasn't represented any other country why shouldn't they be allowed to play for that country ?

If you are going to not allow the "5 year nationalisation" people then it should be a blanket ban and only players born in that country can play for them.

Why should people be treated differently because of the age they moved and the reasons ?

by **damjan193** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:00 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:44 pm wrote:But if a person holds the countries passport and hasn't represented any other country why shouldn't they be allowed to play for that country ?

If you are going to not allow the "5 year nationalisation" people then it should be a blanket ban and only players born in that country can play for them.

Why should people be treated differently because of the age they moved and the reasons ?

Obviously you don't understand the point of representing a country (which has maybe been lost, as you said).

When a country sends someone to represent them, they send something of their own, something that, in a way, the country has produced. Sending some foreigner who has lived there for 5 years, or even worse, who has been brought to that country for the sole reason of representing them makes no sense to me. When English fans see Gerrard score a screamer it makes them feel proud of being English and happy that England has such a player. The whole thing will lose its effect IMO, if for example Januzaj does that for England in the near future.

by **Benny The Noon** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:10 pm

So how come people still feel pride when Kevin Peteirson smashes a ton to beat the Aussies.

I don't think any player has been "brought" to the country for the " sole" reason to represent them and I don't think anyone ever will be. They arrive to represent a club within a country and in that period they could develop national pride with England - and if that player scored the winner for England then people would give two shits IMO mate.

I represent my country with my job and I represented my countries military in sports events so I know exactly what it means to represent my country.

Look it at the other way - what did you think if Hargreaves playing for England ? What if Holtby wanted to play for England ?

If a player has a British passport they are no longer "some foreigner" - they are a British National.

by **damjan193** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:24 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:10 pm wrote:So how come people still feel pride when Kevin Peteirson smashes a ton to beat the Aussies.

I don't think any player has been "brought" to the country for the " sole" reason to represent them and I don't think anyone ever will be. They arrive to represent a club within a country and in that period they could develop national pride with England - and if that player scored the winner for England then people would give two shits IMO mate.

I represent my country with my job and I represented my countries military in sports events so I know exactly what it means to represent my country.

Look it at the other way - what did you think if Hargreaves playing for England ? What if Holtby wanted to play for England ?

If a player has a British passport they are no longer "some foreigner" - they are a British National.

Mate, Pietersen and Hargreaves are both British (or at least part British). The likes of Januzaj, Arteta, Costa had NOTHING to do with the countries they might have/will represent until they arrived at the country only for football reasons. That's the sort of people that I wouldn't allow to represent a country, not people like Farah, Hargreaves, Pieterson, Ozil etc.

by **Benny The Noon** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Hargreaves never once played or lived in the uk before he was picked for England - they had to get him a passport so he could play - he was no more English than someone living in this country for 5 years.

Kevin Pieterson was South African until he couldn't get into their academy system and changed allegiances and had to go through a 4 year qualifying period to represent England. He only arrived in the country for Sport Reasons

Costa is different because he has already represented Brazil and shouldn't be allowed to represent Spain

But IMO anyone who is a British National with a British Passport can play for England.

by **damjan193** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:48 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm wrote:Hargreaves never once played or lived in the uk before he was picked for England - they had to get him a passport so he could play - he was no more English than someone living in this country for 5 years.

Kevin Pieterson was South African until he couldn't get into their academy system and changed allegiances and had to go through a 4 year qualifying period to represent England. He only arrived in the country for Sport Reasons

Costa is different because he has already represented Brazil and shouldn't be allowed to represent Spain

But IMO anyone who is a British National with a British Passport can play for England.

Hargreaves' parents are British and Pieterson's mother is British, that's why they were eligible for England. I have no problem with that, (though I'd rather have a non-British who has been raised in Britain rather than a British that has never lived in Britain. Same for every country). I told what kind of people I mind representing a country and why I mind so I'm not going to explain to you again. I guess we just have a different opinion on the matter.

by **Benny The Noon** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:05 pm

The problem is there isn't just them though - other people like Trott and Froome - moved as young adults.

It's hard to determine boundaries and to pick who should and shouldn't play for the country and think the current rules seem fine as I can't remember there being many complaints about who represents the country in any sport as long as they represent the country with honour and pride and distinction.

You can find very patriotic people in this country who have only lived here for 3 years.

It's not just in sport. The ghurkas are a prime example of patriotism to GB despite not being British

If a person has a British Passport then they should and are allowed to represent the country they class as their "home" .

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:41 pm

Not sure about Trott or Froome but stand by what I said. If any sports person comes to the country to work then for me they will never be British.

by **laza** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:24 am

damjan193 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:00 am wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:44 pm wrote:?

Obviously you don't understand the point of representing a country (which has maybe been lost, as you said).

When a country sends someone to represent them, they send something of their own, something that, in a way, the country has produced. Sending some foreigner who has lived there for 5 years, or even worse, who has been brought to that country for the sole reason of representing them makes no sense to me. When English fans see Gerrard score a screamer it makes them feel proud of being English and happy that England has such a player. The whole thing will lose its effect IMO, if for example Januzaj does that for England in the near future.

Spot on

by **Benny The Noon** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:41 am

Ben Patrick » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:Not sure about Trott or Froome but stand by what I said. If any sports person comes to the country to work then for me they will never be British.

Do you believe that anyone who holds a British Passport is British ( by law they are )

by **Kenny Kan** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:49 am

Ben Patrick » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:41 pm wrote:Not sure about Trott or Froome but stand by what I said. If any sports person comes to the country to work then for me they will never be British.

I understand your view Ben.

Here's a question though, what if an economic migrant (a Polish tradesman for e.g), had lived and worked in the country long enough to be eligible for citizenship, would you say he isn't British?

From a personal point of view, if an Australian told me I wasn't Australian even though I had citizenship, I'd entirely agree with him/her. I'm not Australian, I'm British. Giving me an Australian passport doesn't mean I'm of Australian nationality even though it means I'm legally a citizen who has the same rights as Australians.

I understand the view of both points, the problem is Ben if anyone is eligible to become a citizen after a given number of years, they're entitled the same rights as the hosts, which means they're entitled to represent that nation too.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:30 pm

I remember when the Americans got the world cup in return to setting up there own league. When it came to setting up the teams and who goes where depending on their nationality, this caused a few problems so they then started to find ways around making players American citizens. And the lengths they went to were, laughable?

It got to the point where if your parents are English, but your grandmother was German whose best friend was American then bang your American !

Nowadays the easiest way to go is citizenship.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:30 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:05 pm wrote:.
It's hard to determine boundaries and to pick who should and shouldn't play for the country and think the current rules seem fine as I can't remember there being many complaints about who represents the country in any sport as long as they represent the country with honour and pride and distinction.

Spot on for me. Wherever you draw the line you're always going to have exceptions...players who perhaps haven't lived here for very long but who are just as if not more passionate about playing for their country than others who have but only for a comparatively short time, or those who haven't and qualify purely on account of the birthplace of a relative. I think the basic requirement of citizenship is as far as the rules should go in determining eligibility. Beyond that, the best way of ensuring that players who pull on the shirt feel a pride and passion for their country is for everyone to expect that of them, from the supporters to the manager, to the national association. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

by **Ben Patrick** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:01 pm

Benny The Noon » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:41 am wrote:
Ben Patrick » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:Not sure about Trott or Froome but stand by what I said. If any sports person comes to the country to work then for me they will never be British.

Do you believe that anyone who holds a British Passport is British ( by law they are )

by **Benny The Noon** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:10 pm

Is that just in sport then ? Or are you talking about in all walks of life Ben

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