Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:13 am

bigmick wrote:From ascouting point of view I'd avoid it like the plague. You're in a no-win situation. If the player does well his price goes up and as everybody's had a good look at him theres competition to sign him. If he doesn't do well then do you want him anyway. African players, unless proven in a European league of some importance, are a massive gamble and I'd only take a chance on one who is cheap, young and hungry. For every one that comes off ten don't and the Senegal experience will live with the club for a long time. Avoid.

Racist

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:13 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:To be fair mick, most african players come cheap, young and hungry, and most ply their trade in Europe,look at arsenals squad for christs sake, they must have around 10 players of arican origin who are under 22.

Spot on E7 but in the main, Wenger has either picked them up for absolute buttons (Kolo Toure and the like) if they are still playing in the continent of Africa, or for relatively small fees (Oswusu-Abayi from Ajax I think) if they are plying their trade in Europe. My point about the African Nations Cup is that it seems to me that you can't really win there. You either want the unknowns who you can pick up for next to nothing, or the players who have already proved they can settle in Europe but at a decent price.
Now if the likes of Drogba play well there then so what? We can't afford him/don't want him anyhow. Similarly, if you were looking at a bloke like Lauren to use an Arsenal example, you'd be far better of buying him as Wenger did based on domestic form in Spain, than you would waiting for a couple of glowing performances in the African Nations Cup and paying twice the money.
Wenger himself has actually said that he doesn't even consider the World Cup a good hunting ground for new players and avoids it like the plague. When you look at the performances of people like Baros and Diouf for their countries, I tend to agree with him.

by **66-1137139704** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:05 pm

craig da Toxteth iron wrote:
B-Boy wrote:Rafa should send scouts to Egypt as there will be plenty of talent on display and who knows we might get a right winger with the skills of okocha and trickery diouf and the power of drogba all combined in one.

What do you think?

Who do you think will win the African cup of nations?
I reckon Egypt because they have got some quality players, and it's home soil.

I think Ghana can win the tournament.Their team is made up mainly of the kids who won the u17 world cup,same kids who later finished runners up to argentina in the u20 world cup.Sorry i cant remember the years but those kids included chel$ki's Essien,pingpong(panathanikos),john paintsil(on loan to haifa from arsenal),my favorite then...ibrahim(used to play for genoa;dont know what happened to him) and Appiah.

But i hope the best team wins,that is the team that plays the most entertaining football :;):

by **66-1137139704** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:22 pm

drummerphil wrote:oooooooo why not we might uncover the new Diouf and Diao

Diao was never a star in the senegal team
The mid field powerhouse for senegal was and still is papa diop.I know you've seen him play in the premier ...
The other central mid fielder for senegal was Aliou cisse(used to play for man city...currently i dont know).Am sure you've all heard of him and he was a far better player than diao who used to come off the bench...as a utility player.

Diao was signed by GH to baby sit Diouf but it didnt work out.
But diouf is still a class player,just as carra

I can point out that we could get the new Okocha or the new Etoo

by **66-1137139704** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:25 pm

bigmick wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:To be fair mick, most african players come cheap, young and hungry, and most ply their trade in Europe,look at arsenals squad for christs sake, they must have around 10 players of arican origin who are under 22.

Spot on E7 but in the main, Wenger has either picked them up for absolute buttons (Kolo Toure and the like) if they are still playing in the continent of Africa, or for relatively small fees (Oswusu-Abayi from Ajax I think) if they are plying their trade in Europe. My point about the African Nations Cup is that it seems to me that you can't really win there. You either want the unknowns who you can pick up for next to nothing, or the players who have already proved they can settle in Europe but at a decent price.
Now if the likes of Drogba play well there then so what? We can't afford him/don't want him anyhow. Similarly, if you were looking at a bloke like Lauren to use an Arsenal example, you'd be far better of buying him as Wenger did based on domestic form in Spain, than you would waiting for a couple of glowing performances in the African Nations Cup and paying twice the money.
Wenger himself has actually said that he doesn't even consider the World Cup a good hunting ground for new players and avoids it like the plague. When you look at the performances of people like Baros and Diouf for their countries, I tend to agree with him.

The beauty of this competition is that its not the established stars who normally shine,its the unknowns...like the senegal team of two years ago.

If it wasnt for the Africa cup of Nations wenger would never have know of Lauren and he'd probably still be playing for a small club in spain.
And wigan would probably be without camara and that could mean fighting relagation?As it were they are currently doing well with camara scoring hattricks now and then.And hes a winger,a right winger!

In bolton,big sam is using african players to vie for europe;the same bolton that got promoted just the other day.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:38 pm

B-Boy wrote:If it wasnt for the Africa cup of Nations wenger would never have know of Lauren and he'd probably still be playing for a small club in spain.
And wigan would probably be without camara and that could mean fighting relagation?As it were they are currently doing well with camara scoring hattricks now and then.And hes a winger,a right winger!

In bolton,big sam is using african players to vie for europe;the same bolton that got promoted just the other day.

With the greatest respect I disagree with just about every word of that. Lauren played for Real Mallorca (I think) before he went to Arsenal and I can absolutely assure you that Wenger does not spend 5 million on a player without scouting him extensively over a long period of time. Rafa's record is promising but as a talent spotter and recruiter, the Arsenal man is still just ahead of him and way ahead of Bells breath and Mourhinho IMHO. However Lauren played in the African nations will not have affected Wenger one iota.
Camera had already had spells at Wolves and Southampton and had proved himself usefully pacy, if a little eratic. He was sensibly bought as a replacement for Nathan Ellington by Jewell.
Allardyce has bought african players very cleverly, most notably the excellent Jaiidi and Okocha. Once again however, they weren't bought on the strength of a performance in a major international tournament.
There are no short cuts in scouting players. Only fools buy on the strength of an International tournament.

by **66-1137139704** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:12 pm

bigmick wrote:
B-Boy wrote:If it wasnt for the Africa cup of Nations wenger would never have know of Lauren and he'd probably still be playing for a small club in spain.
And wigan would probably be without camara and that could mean fighting relagation?As it were they are currently doing well with camara scoring hattricks now and then.And hes a winger,a right winger!

In bolton,big sam is using african players to vie for europe;the same bolton that got promoted just the other day.

With the greatest respect I disagree with just about every word of that. Lauren played for Real Mallorca (I think) before he went to Arsenal and I can absolutely assure you that Wenger does not spend 5 million on a player without scouting him extensively over a long period of time. Rafa's record is promising but as a talent spotter and recruiter, the Arsenal man is still just ahead of him and way ahead of Bells breath and Mourhinho IMHO. However Lauren played in the African nations will not have affected Wenger one iota.
Camera had already had spells at Wolves and Southampton and had proved himself usefully pacy, if a little eratic. He was sensibly bought as a replacement for Nathan Ellington by Jewell.
Allardyce has bought african players very cleverly, most notably the excellent Jaiidi and Okocha. Once again however, they weren't bought on the strength of a performance in a major international tournament.
There are no short cuts in scouting players. Only fools buy on the strength of an International tournament.

All i was saying is that the players are known to the world after the tournament if they perform well.
Did you know that Okocha went to PSG directly as a result of this tournament.
And it was camara's performance for senegal that brought him to light and it the reason why wolves bought him.
Otherwise ask yourself why were there no senegal players in the Premiere league before the world cup and Nations cup of 2002?

And this season and next there definately will be more Ghanaian,togolese and even Angolan players playing in England,depending on the performance of there team in the tournament and the world cup.Watch this space

Now why should we be left out?

by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:55 pm

Interesting topic. To be honest, I don't find African players too problematic to adapt to any league. WHen I start to remember African players in Spain, starting from Kameni, the Keeper, following by Lauren, the ex Real Mallorca player (correct bigmick) and finishing by Etoo or the old N'Kono I can't say but they are good professionals. Of course there are cack african players, but I don't think to bet for the African players is a bigger gamble than to bet for instance for Brazilians. WHere as I remember cases of Japanese, Brazilians and Turkish that were homesick shortly after they arrived to Spain, I cannot think many cases of this in the Africans.

What it is true, is that African football at top level (WC) is unpredictable. Since I was a child, I was hearing that the African football was about to explode, and that we'd have an African champion soon enough.

Well that hasn't happened for some reason. And It hasn't happened even when some european powers are not as big as they used to be (Germany for instance).

by **66-1137139704** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:22 pm

Sabre,african football is actually exploding at this very moment.Open your eyes.
Olympic champions of two consequtive games(Nigeria then cameroon).
Quarter final place in the world cup for a debutant -senegal
Now every top club in the europe has african players
And an african was 3rd in the fifa world player of the year awards

What if against all odds Ghana won the world cup in Germany?
What would be the repercussions?Every player on that team would be a big star and they would have earned it.
Especially if they beat brazil in the final after knoking out england in the semis and argentina in the quarters.

Tell me who wouldnt want a piece of world champions?

by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:53 pm

Sabre,african football is actually exploding at this very moment.Open your eyes.
Olympic champions of two consequtive games(Nigeria then cameroon).
Quarter final place in the world cup for a debutant -senegal
Now every top club in the europe has african players
And an african was 3rd in the fifa world player of the year awards

With all due respect, I was told so 20 years ago. Honest! I'd like them to improve, as I like the overall level of world football to improve.

With all due respect, Olympic championship means nothing. Sub 20 Championships mean nothing. Why?? because Spain has been olympic champion, and Europe and World champions more than once. Raul and all those were world champions sub 20, and then what?

I'll admit their level when they win something relevant. Same applies for Spain.

by **stmichael** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:56 pm

expect harry redknapp and sam allardyce's scouts to be working overtime then

by **66-1137139704** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:06 pm

Sabre wrote:
Sabre,african football is actually exploding at this very moment.Open your eyes.
Olympic champions of two consequtive games(Nigeria then cameroon).
Quarter final place in the world cup for a debutant -senegal
Now every top club in the europe has african players
And an african was 3rd in the fifa world player of the year awards

With all due respect, I was told so 20 years ago. Honest! I'd like them to improve, as I like the overall level of world football to improve.

With all due respect, Olympic championship means nothing. Sub 20 Championships mean nothing. Why?? because Spain has been olympic champion, and Europe and World champions more than once. Raul and all those were world champions sub 20, and then what?

I'll admit their level when they win something relevant. Same applies for Spain.

Would you have compared africa to spain ten years ago?

African football is growing and like any healthy growth,it is a slow and natural progression.

Spain on the other hand has been stagnant over the years and i dont believe that football can just 'explode' anywhere in the world,Africa included,and kids start playing like maradona and zidane...its imposible.

by **66-1137139704** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:45 pm

tommycockles,you've been browsing this topic for half an hour now,is there something you want to comment on or you are still thinking deeply on what to say?

by **tommycockles** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:47 pm

MudFace wrote:tommycockles,you've been browsing this topic for half an hour now,is there something you want to comment on or you are still thinking deeply on what to say?

unlike some people i try and only post when i have something to say- i'm not really bothered about my post count, just reading about Liverpool!!

I read from work so often have the page open but am working in a different browser.

Anyway- you stick to arguing about how Cisse is the best thing since sliced bread and i'll keep 'thinking' about how full of :censored:

you are!!

by **redmikey** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:09 pm

But diouf is still a class player,just as carra

I never thought i would read that on here. he is not class in anyway. he should have gone to spainish of italian football wherer his diving , spitting , cheating way of playing the game could be tolerated.

GH didn't give him a chance up front used to be his defence . Nor does big moaning sam yet he gets a game because they have no one better. GH bought him coundn't control him or make him play for the team . He was a world cup flash in the pan who cost us about 8/9 million for no return i hate his whole attitude toward football. sorry rant over!!

Rafa will be watching some of the game because he is a football addict and there are some talented lads there but the pace is so slow and some of the opposition are so poor that it is hard to judge. Wenger takes chances on them buy have loads in his squad just tring to turn out one eto or viera .

But i dont think he will buy on the power of the TV like foolier did with diouf and diao . maybe player on trial at best. but overall i don't care where players come from as long as they understand what it means to play for liverpool . and they are good enough to improve our squad

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