Liverpool FC Forum

[woof woof !]

For Christs' sake, one admittedly superb strike and we're in the "I told you so" and "I eat humble pie" world.

The lad's got talent but for me the jury's still out, need to see him producing more of the same on a regular basis. Good news is that he's still young and can only get better (?).

[Fowler_E7]

For Christs' sake, one admittedly superb strike and we're in the "I told you so" and "I eat humble pie" world.

The lad's got talent but for me the jury's still out, need to see him producing more of the same on a regular basis. Good news is that he's still young and can only get better (?).

100% agree with this, Henderson had 3 decent games and now we all have to say sorry and recognise his world class talents  when he performs to a high level regularly and scores goals and assists on a consistent basis then ill consider him a good player, which im pretty sure will never happen. This guy wouldnt play for Man Utd, City, Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal in a million years.

[SouthCoastShankly]

For Christs' sake, one admittedly superb strike and we're in the "I told you so" and "I eat humble pie" world.

The lad's got talent but for me the jury's still out, need to see him producing more of the same on a regular basis. Good news is that he's still young and can only get better (?).

100% agree with this, Henderson had 3 decent games and now we all have to say sorry and recognise his world class talents  when he performs to a high level regularly and scores goals and assists on a consistent basis then ill consider him a good player, which im pretty sure will never happen. This guy wouldnt play for Man Utd, City, Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal in a million years.

Sorry but who on here is claiming that Henderson is world class?

What I take issue with is this habit of Liverpool supporters of late to question every signing in intricate detail because they aren't "world class" talent. Whatever happened to the Liverpool way of time and patience with a player.

Back in the day we embraced signings like Danny Murphy, Gary McAllister, Dirk Kuyt, etc - none of those players were considered world class yet they fit into the managers plans and we backed them - and they succeeded. FFS we even backed and supported Emile Heskey, he wouldn't last a week in todays plastic fan base.

[Reg]

Condsidering he's been with us for over 12 months he's been AWFUL. Mentally weak, physically limited and without any match changing ability. If he has the ability to change into Superman he should be in Hollywood not Liverpool.

Of course, buy a couple of real game changers like Sturridge and hopefully Moutinho and even the tea lady becomes inspired, however in Henderson's case it could be just covering up the cracks.

To be polite the jury's still out. In reality I'd prefer him to be in the back of the police van with Downing heading back down the M6 into oblivion.

[Dalglish]

Condsidering he's been with us for over 12 months he's been AWFUL. Mentally weak, physically limited and without any match changing ability. If he has the ability to change into Superman he should be in Hollywood not Liverpool.

Of course, buy a couple of real game changers like Sturridge and hopefully Moutinho and even the tea lady becomes inspired, however in Henderson's case it could be just covering up the cracks.

To be polite the jury's still out. In reality I'd prefer him to be in the back of the police van with Downing heading back down the M6 into oblivion.

THIS ! 

Henderson scores a "worldie" (well a goal then) and we hope all our fears about his limitations prove unfounded ! You can't knock Fan's optimism, we are some of the most gullible people in town but methinks we are stretching it a bit too far to believe he will be one who takes us to the promised land.

I was there on Saturday and apart from the goal can't recall anything else he did  ? Says it all really I suppose. I know certain players do the hard unnoticed graft but on Saturday that was Lucas whilst Gerrard orchestrated the attack and SAS did the rest.

Downing managed to wake up from his previous weeks slumber at Man U and had a few moments but it was the likes of Johnson (superb) and Wisdom who gave us the width and impetus to threaten at will.

Henderson is probably not as bad as his critics would have us believe but unfortunately he ain't as good as we hoped he would be either.

Walk on ...............

[laza]

Well it was pretty nice pass he gave to Downing who crossed for Sturridge's goal Ian

In fact it must have been world class as he was mistaken for Gerrard initally by TV pundit 

I must prefer both him and Downing become Lucas rather then Adams or Carrolls, I really dont think the club can afford to ship them out and hope next one in the door is going a new Alonso or Masch

[Reg]

Thats a big wish list mate.

[maguskwt]

I think our link to Philippe Coutinho shows that BR is actively looking to improve the AM department. It seems that Lucas and Gerrard will be occupying the more withdrawn CM/DM slots in BR's system. This doesn't bode well for Henderson and Shelvey. I had high hopes for Shelvey, he seems to be more dynamic than Henderson. But both of them do not seem to be making their cases when given the opportunity. Henderson's form is better than Shelvey's now. But how long will this last? Both of them have been blowing hot and cold in the past and like Reg puts it they seem to belong to the "nearly man" category together with Downing.

[Kenny Kan]

Henderson is a great example of what time and patience can produce. He is clearly a confidence player and with this renewed confidence he is shining. Henderson's performances of later have been a two fingered salute at all those doubters who gave him abuse.

Thank god we have a sane manager who isn't as knee-jerk as some of the posters on here.

I'd highly call 18 months of underachievement....... knee-jerk.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Henderson is a great example of what time and patience can produce. He is clearly a confidence player and with this renewed confidence he is shining. Henderson's performances of later have been a two fingered salute at all those doubters who gave him abuse.

Thank god we have a sane manager who isn't as knee-jerk as some of the posters on here.

I'd highly call 18 months of underachievement....... knee-jerk.

In the context of Rodgers it isn't 18 months though is it numbnuts.

Rodgers openly said when he came in that everyone would get a clean slate. Rodgers has judged Henderson on this season, and this season he has warranted starts and has not been put up for sale. No guarantees he won't be sold (everyone has a price) but Rodgers has persisted with him and the performances and confidence are now starting to show.

I'm not a massive Henderson fan but I do appreciate giving players time to perform under a new manager, playing in a new system.

[Kenny Kan]

In the context of Rodgers it isn't 18 months though is it numbnuts. 

Putting the usual personal attacks to one side for a minute. The context of Rodger? interesting argument. So, theoretically going by this illogical excuse, we should have kept J.Cole and given him time and patience under Rodgers, at least to overcome his injuries and play more regularly to see what he could do. Or is it, that suddenly 12 months of prior footballing performances mean nothing and a player can only be judged under one manager. Feck, Kenny should have kept Poulsen for longer then.

FWIW, I agree with the general consensus that there is a decent footballer in there somewhere and that his self-confidence needs to be managed to get the best of him. I think he has done quite well recently and I actually prefer him to your pin-up Shelvey. But he has hardly given anyone this "two fingered salute" just yet and as Woof said it's a bit premature for the 'I told you so's' (you in this case - you do seem to have a case of foot 'n' mouth disease) to come out and play lord protector. The criticisms of him have been just and fair up until now, however if he can manage to put in an exceptional level more regularly those critsims will turn in to praise, naturally.

[SouthCoastShankly]

In the context of Rodgers it isn't 18 months though is it numbnuts. 

Putting the usual personal attacks to one side for a minute. The context of Rodger? interesting argument. So, theoretically going by this illogical excuse, we should have kept J.Cole and given him time and patience under Rodgers, at least to overcome his injuries and play more regularly to see what he could do. Or is it, that suddenly 12 months of prior footballing performances mean nothing and a player can only be judged under one manager. Feck, Kenny should have kept Poulsen for longer then.

FWIW, I agree with the general consensus that there is a decent footballer in there somewhere and that his self-confidence needs to be managed to get the best of him. I think he has done quite well recently and I actually prefer him to your pin-up Shelvey. But he has hardly given anyone this "two fingered salute" just yet and as Woof said it's a bit premature for the 'I told you so's' (you in this case - you do seem to have a case of foot 'n' mouth disease) to come out and play lord protector. The criticisms of him have been just and fair up until now, however if he can manage to put in an exceptional level more regularly those critsims will turn in to praise, naturally.

It's not an illogical excuse, it's 100% valid. Hence why Rodgers gave everyone a clean slate.

If a new philosophy and system is being introduced, the importance of a players previous performances under a different system/philosophy is minimal. What is important is what core skills they have and whether the manager sees a future for that player in his system. Rodgers clearly saw something in Henderson that he could work with, and as such he gave him a chance and didn't ship out in a knee-jerk fashion. His own statement at the beginning of the season -

Brendan Rodgers is confident of getting the best out of Jordan Henderson after hailing the young midfielder's attitude.
Henderson played 48 times for Liverpool last season but struggled to win over supporters following his £16million move from Sunderland.

'I look at the young kid Jordan Henderson who got a wee bit of stick last year but do you know what, this is a boy who was 21 years of age,' Rodgers told the Liverpool Echo.
'I thought when I first saw him at Sunderland that this kid is going to be a really good player. He's coming to a massive club and massive expectation.
'He moves away from home, he is on his own and he has to be a world beater straight away. It was never going to happen.'

Even Joe Cole got a chance under Rodgers and in my opinion if he hadn't of been on such high wages he would have stayed. Joe Cole became unattractive to Rodgers because his salary did not represent the value of what he offered. Rodgers saw the ability to free up money that could be spent on players who provided different (needed) options than Cole could not bring by himself.

Rodgers is implementing a system that does allow a player to prove himself (assuming some talent/ability has already been identified), and I applaud him for that.

[Kenny Kan]

It's not an illogical excuse, it's 100% valid. Hence why Rodgers gave everyone a clean slate.

If a new philosophy and system is being introduced, the importance of a players previous performances under a different system/philosophy is minimal. What is important is what core skills they have and whether the manager sees a future for that player in his system. Rodgers clearly saw something in Henderson that he could work with, and as such he gave him a chance and didn't ship out in a knee-jerk fashion. His own statement at the beginning of the season - 

That's fair enough - to an extent. But supporters are here long before and will be here long after Rodgers or any other manager takes the reigns. So, they will naturally have opinions/dispositions on a player at their club before a new manager walks in and says 'right, clean slate'. Henderson has formed opinions before Rodgers came along, and FWIW I don't believe he's going to turn from average Joe under Kenny to Pele under Rodgers over night, that doesn't mean Rodgers' philosophy won't get more out of him - I think it will - in time. But as of yet Henderson needs to keep doing what he's recently been doing, and some more before we can talk about two fingered salutes. I reiterate, I think the critisim of Henderson has been fair during his time here as a Liverpool player no matter who the manager, and conclude this not to be knee-jerk.... numb-nuts.

[SouthCoastShankly]

It's not an illogical excuse, it's 100% valid. Hence why Rodgers gave everyone a clean slate.

If a new philosophy and system is being introduced, the importance of a players previous performances under a different system/philosophy is minimal. What is important is what core skills they have and whether the manager sees a future for that player in his system. Rodgers clearly saw something in Henderson that he could work with, and as such he gave him a chance and didn't ship out in a knee-jerk fashion. His own statement at the beginning of the season - 

That's fair enough - to an extent. But supporters are here long before and will be here long after Rodgers or any other manager takes the reigns. So, they will naturally have opinions/dispositions on a player at their club before a new manager walks in and says 'right, clean slate'. Henderson has formed opinions before Rodgers came along, and FWIW I don't believe he's going to turn from average Joe under Kenny to Pele under Rodgers over night, that doesn't mean Rodgers' philosophy won't get more out of him - I think it will - in time. But as of yet Henderson needs to keep doing what he's recently been doing, and some more. I reiterate, I think the critisim of Henderson has been fair during his time here as a Liverpool player no matter who the manager, and conclude this not to be knee-jerk.... numb-nuts.

I also think criticism has been fair, what some on here (not you) fail to do is credit where credit is due.

FWIW I prefer "numbnuts" without the hyphen. 

[Kenny Kan]

It's not an illogical excuse, it's 100% valid. Hence why Rodgers gave everyone a clean slate.

If a new philosophy and system is being introduced, the importance of a players previous performances under a different system/philosophy is minimal. What is important is what core skills they have and whether the manager sees a future for that player in his system. Rodgers clearly saw something in Henderson that he could work with, and as such he gave him a chance and didn't ship out in a knee-jerk fashion. His own statement at the beginning of the season - 

That's fair enough - to an extent. But supporters are here long before and will be here long after Rodgers or any other manager takes the reigns. So, they will naturally have opinions/dispositions on a player at their club before a new manager walks in and says 'right, clean slate'. Henderson has formed opinions before Rodgers came along, and FWIW I don't believe he's going to turn from average Joe under Kenny to Pele under Rodgers over night, that doesn't mean Rodgers' philosophy won't get more out of him - I think it will - in time. But as of yet Henderson needs to keep doing what he's recently been doing, and some more. I reiterate, I think the critisim of Henderson has been fair during his time here as a Liverpool player no matter who the manager, and conclude this not to be knee-jerk.... numb-nuts.

I also think criticism has been fair, what some on here (not you) fail to do is credit where credit is due.

FWIW I prefer "numbnuts" without the hyphen. 

Now that's resolved, why hasn't Shelvey had a run out of late.