Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:38 pm

The guy had a heart attack ffs, he ran out of steam. He did the job to the best of his ability, the fans respected him but he simply had to go. He should realise that better than anyone. He played a big role in bump starting us back onto the highroad I'll give him that, but he simply wasnt able to do the job physically. He was toitally worn out.

by **7_Kewell** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:11 am

it's probably worth noting that Houllier and Rafa had a bit of a falling out and i think this is the route to these comments.

When Rafa took over Gerrard kept dropping in at Melwood on a regular basis to chat to players and staff. I think Rafa got a bit sick of it after a while and asked him to stop making so many visits.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:43 am

Scottbot wrote:Shame to hear Ged come out and say these things. He would be better off just staying quiet.

And for me thats the whole point of this thread Scott , im really dissapointed in Ged that he has actualy come out and direpected two people who were associated with our history. its not about who was the better manager as a few have said , for me its about a former manager questioning the integrity of a man who worked along side him and a man who took over from him, Why wait 5 years to say it ,any repect i did have has flew out the window now, Just another bandwagon jumper who trying to get his oar in , in my eyes, sad really

by **Scottbot** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:50 am

NANNY RED wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Shame to hear Ged come out and say these things. He would be better off just staying quiet.

And for me thats the whole point of this thread Scott , im really dissapointed in Ged that he has actualy come out and direpected two people who were associated with our history. its not about who was the better manager as a few have said , for me its about a former manager questioning the integrity of a man who worked along side him and a man who took over from him, Why wait 5 years to say it ,any repect i did have has flew out the window now, Just another bandwagon jumper who trying to get his oar in , in my eyes, sad really

Yeah I see where you're coming from. I know there was no love lost between Houllier and Rafa plus it didn't work out too well with Evans either. I've still got a lot of respect for what Houllier did for the club, the affection he clearly showed (and still shows albeit in the wrong way this time) for the club, and his affinity with the fans and the city. I watched my treble DVD when I got in drunk a few months back. It was a helluva season.

by **dundreamin** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:22 am

He stills visits Liverpool quite regularly he meets the surgeon who saved his life. Spoke tn him several times comes over as a really arrogant get. Typical Frenchman

by **Raoul** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:32 am

Yeah, its a shame he didn't keep his mouth shut. Ours is one of the biggest managerial jobs in world football, and its hardly a cake walk. He should know that himself...

No doubt Rafa had a bad season last year. No doubt he has his weaknesses. But last year will be forgotten. Trying to silently dance around our apartment ridiculously early in the morning with my toddler watching me and laughing at his idiotic dad after Istanbul will not be.

And that is only one of many highlights I'll be choosing to remember of Rafa's reign. @ dundreamin, you are right. It is Roy's time now.

by **Owzat** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:43 am

Honestly I think their records are so close it's churlish to suggest one was better than the other. Put to one side any points comparisons, it is how you fare against the teams you face. I read suggestion that Houllier didn't have to face Citeh, no he had to face Newcastle and Leeds (not at the same time)

So how do they compare?

- Houllier finished 2nd with 80+ points, Rafa finished 2nd with 80+ points
- Both predominantly finished between 2nd and 5th in the league, averaging around 4th
- Both landed a European trophy, the European Super Cup and an FA Cup
- Neither won the league
- Both made good and bad signings

Houllier keeps banging on about how his team won the Champions League, he obviously feels bitter that he was dispensed with. What he should really point out is that he couldn't get the best out of his players, someone else got more out of his players! A lot weren't good enough anyway, Baros, Traore, Dudek, Smicer, Biscan, Kewell and Riise were never top drawer (well Kewell wasn't in a Liverpool shirt) And it was the likes of Gerrard, Alonso and Luis Garcia that got us to the final and to penalties.

What that article does confirm is Houllier likes to take a lot of credit, but does like to dodge blame. He says he was on the panel that kept Domenech on, but is quick to add that he wasn't the only one so deflecting blame. And I find it quite funny he claims credit for the Champions League victory as the players were mostly his signings, but doesn't take any blame for the league finish as the players were mostly his signings..........................................

Nowhere near Anfield please, not in an official working capacity. He's bound to want to input and we don't want to see any more next Zidanes, next Henrys, next Vieiras etc :no

by **tubby** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:17 am

Houllier Vs Benítez: Who “Won”? http://bit.ly/cHEtEO | Free read on the Tomkins Time

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:34 am

I don't need to read Tompkins to know he'll say that the previous manager to this one was a far better manager than Houllier. Funnily enough I agree with him. However on the section he's no doubt included where he talks about the fact that "we would have won the league under Rafa if we didn't have to play Away matches in London and got a 1 goal start against Man Utd and Chelsea", I think he is talking b0ll0cks. Not that is IS b0ll0cks per se, (as we probably would have won the league under those circumstances), but it's just irrelevent. Much like the time he produced a league table where Away goals counted double and you didn't include goals scored against us by blokes with a vowel in their name or whatever the feck it was. We won the league under that system as well as I recall, it was just at the plain old three points for a win that we struggled a bit.

Tompkins talks even more b0ll0cks than me which is saying something, and he gets paid for it too which says something more (about me). The previous manager was a much better manager than Houllier though, of that I'm certain.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:40 am

Owzat wrote:Honestly I think their records are so close it's churlish to suggest one was better than the other. Put to one side any points comparisons, it is how you fare against the teams you face. I read suggestion that Houllier didn't have to face Citeh, no he had to face Newcastle and Leeds (not at the same time)

So how do they compare?

- Houllier finished 2nd with 80+ points, Rafa finished 2nd with 80+ points
- Both predominantly finished between 2nd and 5th in the league, averaging around 4th
- Both landed a European trophy, the European Super Cup and an FA Cup
- Neither won the league
- Both made good and bad signings

Houllier keeps banging on about how his team won the Champions League, he obviously feels bitter that he was dispensed with. What he should really point out is that he couldn't get the best out of his players, someone else got more out of his players! A lot weren't good enough anyway, Baros, Traore, Dudek, Smicer, Biscan, Kewell and Riise were never top drawer (well Kewell wasn't in a Liverpool shirt) And it was the likes of Gerrard, Alonso and Luis Garcia that got us to the final and to penalties.

What that article does confirm is Houllier likes to take a lot of credit, but does like to dodge blame. He says he was on the panel that kept Domenech on, but is quick to add that he wasn't the only one so deflecting blame. And I find it quite funny he claims credit for the Champions League victory as the players were mostly his signings, but doesn't take any blame for the league finish as the players were mostly his signings..........................................

Nowhere near Anfield please, not in an official working capacity. He's bound to want to input and we don't want to see any more next Zidanes, next Henrys, next Vieiras etc

Comparing Rafa's European trophy win to Houlliers is like comparing Kylie to Vanessa Feltz

by **Big Niall** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:12 am

How come nobody else has pointed out that evans team was better in the league (never outside top 4) and played much better football to watch.

The others were cup managers, but football is about leagues.

Also Evans is the only one that didnt' criticise the former manager (and plenty he could say about the mess Souness left). Evans has more class than the other two.

by **Liverpool442** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:17 am

I am obviously deeply in the minority here because I actually think Houllier was as good a manager, the record are quite similar and I think people do not give Houllier enough credit for for the initial squad he built, Hyppia, Henchoz, Babel ect. He was clearly effected by his heart attack but prior to that I think was he person who dragged us back into the modern day footballing world well prior to Rafa. For me they both took us so far and both had failings which stopped them keeping up with the really top teams of their times, Houllier is entitled to his opinion although I don't think he should have said it maybe he is just fed up of people talking about Rafa like he was god whilst not remembering his record so well, when to be honest their is little between them.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:53 am

Dion Fanning on Twitter

Winning the European Cup with Djimi Traore was Benitez's achievement. Signing him was Houllier's..

by **stmichael** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:03 am

Big Niall wrote:How come nobody else has pointed out that evans team was better in the league (never outside top 4) and played much better football to watch.

the league was nowhere near as competitive back then. there were one, maybe two consistently decent sides. united and were miles ahead of everybody else. arsenal occasionally challenged them. blackburn had one decent season but then fell away again. newcastle the same. it was far easier to get in the top 4 then than it is now.

yes evans side was great to watch going forward but the defence and keeper were pi$$ poor which is why we never won anything, carling cup in 1995 aside. ideally i want to see entertaining football but not at the expense of winning things.

by **Owzat** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:21 pm

Don't forget his FA Cup final, albeit losing. I think you're playing down what Roy did for us too much, and while there is a big gap now with more points for top sides, the bottom sides put up more fight. He was the epitomy of consistency, 2x 3rd and 2x 4th with one of those 4th places level on points with 2nd. It may be harder to get into the top four in terms of points, but the relative expenditure increased with the points demand.

And that keeper, was it a certain David James who some would say wasn't exactly pi$$ poor

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