Liverpool FC Forum

by **A.B.** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:23 pm

Arsenal played a draw with Bolton, anyone see that game? Bolton did a good job of comming back into the game, Arsenal's defence was really sloppy and they didn't have a lot of chances of scoring like they usualy do.

by **zackboxer** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:48 pm

Didn't see it unfortunately but great result for Bolton, not an easy team to beat these days.

by **laza** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:25 pm

With exception of their result against us, im quite happy to see little teams like Bolton taking it up to the big boys. Besides a blow for the little guy its also shows that these uber teams are only human

by **shagasaurus80** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:38 pm

No longer perfect he says :laugh:

Where they ever? I bet your gonna say theyre on-a-downward-spiral :sleepy:

yawn yawn! Its just one game man. But still it emphasises wot ive been trying to get into your pea brain -they will drop points along the road.

And we will capitalize on that

by **the great one** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:46 pm

bolton scored for too set pieces so next time we play aresnal we now how to score past them.

by **kindaconfuzed** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:14 pm

Visiting teams to Bolton are at a disadvantage straight away due to the conditions at the ground. Its high up on the Penines and the wind wips through there. In fact I reckon they should pick the ground up and move it somewhere else, like Bury.

The girls aren't too hot either which is similar to the pies .....sorry we were talkin about Ar$e ....nal werent we, well this is the slippery sloap for them I'm afraid.

by **the great one** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:46 pm

Excellent article by Rob Smyth, it seems a bit unfair, but i would struggle to put it better myself.

There is one conoslation though, Arsenal's problem in Europe is one that can be easily overcome, and in Reyes, Fabregas and Van Persie there is enough bottle and nerve to crunch it in the big matches against the big names.

But, Rob is so right... finally someone sees it how i saw it, Arsene himself did screw up Arsenal's chance at a treble last year by panicky substitutions,

I WAS NOT IMPRESSED by the display on Tuesday, the Old Arsenal re-surfaced, the one i felt Wenger had transformed last season only to revert back to it when they played Chelsea in the champions league and Man Utd in the FA Cup and League... I would have thought Wenger would have finally learned what his mistake was.. When Arsenal go conservative and tight, very respectful of the opposition they lose the game half of th time , the other half scrape a draw, when they unleash, they ALWAYS win... well,here is the article
Don't believe the hype

And for those who can't go for it.

Quote:
Don't believe the hype

Arsenal must overcome their mental fragility before they can be considered Britain's greatest-ever side, argues Rob Smyth

Friday September 17, 2004

'Hey Bobby. What's the French for 'bottle'?'

Arsenal could hardly have delivered a more chilling statement of intent: not content with being champions and basking in the glow of a remarkable, unprecedented unbeaten run, their beginning to the season was a blur of delicious, devastating attacking football.
The new boy in midfield was a revelation, and Thierry Henry looked like he could make or score a goal wherever, whenever he wanted.

With Manchester United floundering, Arsenal's Premiership victory was a shoo-in; it was hard to see how they could not right the wrong of their Champions League underachievement, either.

So why was it that Arsenal ended the 2002/03 season with nothing more than the consolation prize of the FA Cup?

For the same reason they will not win the European Cup this season: because they are mentally weak. Arsenal are constantly deified by the media as the finest team in English football history, yet that sobriquet jars insultingly with their consistent failure in the Champions League, not to mention their inability to retain the domestic title. 'Great' is the most overused word in football - apart, maybe, from 'y'know' - and Arsenal have a series of boxes to tick before they can legitimately be afforded it.

Arsenal are transcendent at the moment, bewildering in their brilliance, but their football is barely more exceptional than it was this time two years ago. Ultimately, as they found out then, aesthetics are an irrelevance. Let's get some perspective: this is not a team that has won four titles on the spun, or reached back-to-back European Cup finals. They have won two Premierships and two FA Cups. Garlands must be handed out in May, not August: thus far, Arsenal have trounced some extremely modest teams, and as soon as they came up against a half-decent side in Europe, they laboured.

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After that match, as he is wont to do at every opportunity, Arsene Wenger hailed the mental strength of his team; he doth protest too much. There was nothing convincing about the game, and the last 20 minutes reminded us of the mental fragility that courses through this Arsenal side, from Henry - the Graeme Hick of football, a regular-as-clockwork flop in the games that really matter - to Wenger, who, no matter how hard he tries, cannot quite shake his Erikssonian conservatism. When the chips are down and the bums are squeaking, Wenger's defensive side will come to the fore. He did it again on Tuesday, replacing Jose Reyes with Edu as PSV's pressure mounted. The end justified the means in that instance, but there are many times when it has not.

The most fatal example came in March, when Arsenal were 1-0 up and cruising against a bedraggled, downtrodden Manchester United side. But the second goal did not come and so Wenger felt the devil on his shoulder, encouraging him to tighten up further. A series of absurd substitutions culminated in Pascal Cygan coming on to play left midfield. Given an initiative they had no chance of getting, United equalised, and throughout the six days between that match and the sides' FA Cup semi-final meeting, you knew there was only one winner. Wenger's substitution cost Arsenal the best chance of the treble they will ever have.

Yet it is not domestically that Arsenal's failings are best demonstrated: in terms of pure quality they have been the best team in England for three years. Abroad, however, their blundering has becoming increasingly desperate and, for a side as gifted as theirs, almost humiliating. A bit like the Manchester United side of 1993-95, this Arsenal team cannot fathom why they can be so majestic at home, and so limp in Europe. For United, the excuse was the foreigner rule; for Arsenal, it is merely the way the chips have fallen. With Wenger, there has to be an excuse for failure - the only alternative is the truth he dare not confront. Arsenal are bottlers, and deep down they know it.

When the sun is shining and all is well, Arsenal make for the most charming company imaginable, on and off the pitch. But when they do not get their way, the capacity for juvenile sulking is unparalleled. Look at the beyond-the-pale haranguing of Graham Poll by Henry when Arsenal lost to Newcastle in 2001, or the disgraceful persecution of the completely innocent Ole Solskjaer when Arsenal's title challenge went down the pan in 2003, or the sour grapes that followed United's triumph that season. Arsenal are seriously sore losers.

Not that they are sore very often these days. Their unbeaten run is an astounding feat, testament chiefly to the most underrated commodity in football - continuity - and the bewildering range of skills that Henry possesses. At their best they have an extraordinary, unprecedented fluidity, and in the remarkable Jose Reyes they have acquired a man with the ability to play each game in a bubble; regardless of their significance, he can take them to another level, because he appears unafflicted by the choking pressure that does for Henry.

In terms of ability, Henry has the lot - not least the stunning capacity to slow the game to a Matrix-style flo-mo while others charge around him, before fast-forwarding to devastating effect. But what is the point of having all the tools if you can't find them when it matters? They may be stylistic opposites, but Henry is a pea from the same pod as Eric Cantona - the scourge of blunderbuss Premiership defenders; plagued by the streetwise stoppers in Europe. Yes, he delivered with hat-tricks against Liverpool in April and Roma in 2002 - but neither of these were do-or-die games. Inter away last season was, but one swallow does not make summer. Besides, Arsenal had already been written off before that game; they were able to play with the freedom of the damned.

Henry has as much ability as any forward since Marco van Basten, but he is some way from being the best forward since van Basten. Similarly, there are hurdles for Arsenal to clear before greatness is theirs: they need to retain the title, and they need to go a lot further than the quarter-finals of the European Cup. Nor have they garnished their legacy with a signature, era-defining performance, like Liverpool's breathtaking 5-0 shredding of Nottingham Forest in 1988, or Manchester United's titanic European Cup semi-final comeback in Turin 11 years later.

It is in games like that - when luck, the crowd, the referee and just everything is against you - that mental strength really manifests itself. Like at Anfield on May 26, 1989, when Arsenal beat Liverpool so seismically. It was in those circumstances, in Turin, that Roy Keane produced as iron-willed and influential an individual performance as the modern game has seen. As yet, Arsenal have no equivalent. "I always ask questions of people in certain big games," Keane said last summer, "and I just look at when Arsenal played against Chelsea in the Champions League. In the second half of that match at Highbury a lot of their players weren't there to be seen."

Arsenal remain the most sumptuous exhibition around - catch them while you can - but until they learn to deliver through good times and bad, the exhibits of their European disappointments will crush their case time after time.

rob.smyth@guardian.co.uk

by **the great one** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:50 pm

what i say is pure fact - pathetic english defenses make arsenal look a lot better than they are. if you're a cultured european team as most teams in the CL are - you're smart enough to break things up, slow down the game and make the arsenal play the way they want to. it's a battle in europe - not a matter of having people run all over the place and score endless goals against happless defenses. :;):

by **A.B.** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:06 pm

shagasaurus80 wrote:No longer perfect he says Where they ever? I bet your gonna say theyre on-a-downward-spiral yawn yawn! Its just one game man. But still it emphasises wot ive been trying to get into your pea brain -they will drop points along the road.
And we will capitalize on that

Um yes their record shows that they are perfect, 47 games unbeaten. No longer 100%perfect so far into the season, perfect meaning winning every game they've played in the season so far. They are still unbeaten you brainless idiot.

Mancs can pick up points if they can past us,Boro,Newcastle,Bolton and Tottenham. You have quite a lot of rivals there. Please get your facts straight for once. This is a conversation for people with a brain.

by **Ciggy** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:39 pm

A.B can I give you a word of advice mate.
Just ignore this fool and it will crawl back into the gutter back from where it came from. Dont reply to the insults lad stand above scum thats all they are. Manure fans when things arnt going good at old twatford they spread like a disease everywere only trouble is there are no innoculations against them :;):

Only trophey they havent won yet is englands most hated club :glare:

by **the great one** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:58 pm

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:A.B can I give you a word of advice mate.
Just ignore this fool and it will crawl back into the gutter back from where it came from. Dont reply to the insults lad stand above scum thats all they are. Manure fans when things arnt going good at old twatford they spread like a disease everywere only trouble is there are no innoculations against them
Only trophey they havent won yet is englands most hated club

i throught they had i know it out of them and chelsea :;):

by **shagasaurus80** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:16 am

Ab-47 games unbeaten isnt perfect.If they were perfect they would be winning every game and dropping Nil points!
Do you understand wot perfection is now? Or would you like me to spell it out again .Perfection means Flawless!!
And hey wots that down the back of your trousers?Oh Look its Grannys_Gona_Get_yas tongue :laugh:

by **laza** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:09 am

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:A.B can I give you a word of advice mate.
Just ignore this fool and it will crawl back into the gutter back from where it came from. Dont reply to the insults lad stand above scum thats all they are. Manure fans when things arnt going good at old twatford they spread like a disease everywere only trouble is there are no innoculations against them
Only trophey they havent won yet is englands most hated club

wise words indeed

by **A.B.** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:27 am

shagasaurus80 wrote:Ab-47 games unbeaten isnt perfect.If they were perfect they would be winning every game and dropping Nil points!
Do you understand wot perfection is now? Or would you like me to spell it out again .Perfection means Flawless!!
And hey wots that down the back of your trousers?Oh Look its Grannys_Gona_Get_yas tongue

I don't understand children. Sorry this is a grown up discussion.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:54 am

shagasaurus80 wrote:Ab-47 games unbeaten isnt perfect.If they were perfect they would be winning every game and dropping Nil points!
Do you understand wot perfection is now? Or would you like me to spell it out again .Perfection means Flawless!!
And hey wots that down the back of your trousers?Oh Look its Grannys_Gona_Get_yas tongue

jealous

I think you fancy A.B. you look for his comments and post your pathetic replies to everything the kid says.
:laugh:

****** fancies A.B.

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