Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

To support him on the pitch and then ridicule him everywhere else would be nothing short of fickle hypocrasy which is what a lot of "supporters" are coming across as these days. Support the entire package, or don't support us. For me it's that simple. I suppose others are entitled to define "support" however they want to, but the word comes from the English dictionary and it's definition dosen't change when applied to football.

are you saying that no fan paying the ticket price should ever be allowed to criticise a player who is complete and utter *****, that is the most insane thing I've ever heard. Liverpool fans are passionate and loyal, but only to a point. Wwhen they see a player with zero quality sulking about and disrespecting the manager,who they of course idolise, then that is the last straw for them.

Fans have every right to be annoyed and to criticize. Comments such as "utter Sh*t" though are nothing more than your crudley worded opinion and isn't the the most articulate criticism i've ever heard. If yelling "You're utter Sh*t" from the stands, or posting it all over forums is what your money paid for, well, enjoy. 

You use Carroll's emotionally charged outburst against the "idolised" Kenny to back up your opinion, yet you choose to ignore the fact that Kenny picks Andy to play, and Kenny chose to overlook Carroll's four letter outburst. Well, which is it to be? Back Kenny's decisions or not? If Kenny dosen't mind his players swearing at him, why should it bother you? If you want to back Kenny and in turn back Liverpool FC, well you must also back Carroll since he is a chosen part of our team.

I have explained before why I think Carroll is utter Sh*t, but to reiterate,
1) He can't head
2) He can't shoot
3) He can't read the game
4) He falls over all the time
5) He sulks
6) He doesn't try to win the ball back
7) He jogs around the pitch putting in minimal effort
8) He's disrespectful to his manager.

In summary he is by far the worst striker I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt and I refuse to support him, if I had my way he would never play for us again, I'd much rather try some of the youngsters.

[tubby]

Do you remember Michael Ricketts? Scored 15 goals for Bolton by Feb, got capped by England, but quickly worked his way down the leagues after moving to Boro and failing.

I doubt many remember Marcus Stewart, but he scored 19 Premier League goals in one season for Reading, finishing 2nd top goal scorer. He followed up by scoring 6 goals the following season before signing for Sunderland and didn’t even manage a goal every 3 games for them.

Amr Zaki wrecked most Premiership defensive he came up against for 6 months, scoring 10 goals before Christmas, but failed to score for the rest of the season.

Benjani, Roque Santa Cruz, Juan Pablo Ángel, James Beattie, etc.

One season wonders are not uncommon but every so often a club gets duped and pays silly money for them and we have added our name to that in spectacular fashion with Carroll.

I think that will only be proven if he never improves from how he is now. If say he were to go on to another club and rediscover his form then the issue will be down to other factors, such as maybe lack of quality elsewhere in the squad to get the best out of him, or poos man managment, tactics used to employ him ect...

[heimdall]

Do you remember Michael Ricketts? Scored 15 goals for Bolton by Feb, got capped by England, but quickly worked his way down the leagues after moving to Boro and failing.

I doubt many remember Marcus Stewart, but he scored 19 Premier League goals in one season for Reading, finishing 2nd top goal scorer. He followed up by scoring 6 goals the following season before signing for Sunderland and didn’t even manage a goal every 3 games for them.

Amr Zaki wrecked most Premiership defensive he came up against for 6 months, scoring 10 goals before Christmas, but failed to score for the rest of the season.

Benjani, Roque Santa Cruz, Juan Pablo Ángel, James Beattie, etc.

One season wonders are not uncommon but every so often a club gets duped and pays silly money for them and we have added our name to that in spectacular fashion with Carroll.

I think that will only be proven if he never improves from how he is now. If say he were to go on to another club and rediscover his form then the issue will be down to other factors, such as maybe lack of quality elsewhere in the squad to get the best out of him, or poos man managment, tactics used to employ him ect...

So should a whole team have to adapt to a striker or should the striker adapt to the team?

[tubby]

Do you remember Michael Ricketts? Scored 15 goals for Bolton by Feb, got capped by England, but quickly worked his way down the leagues after moving to Boro and failing.

I doubt many remember Marcus Stewart, but he scored 19 Premier League goals in one season for Reading, finishing 2nd top goal scorer. He followed up by scoring 6 goals the following season before signing for Sunderland and didn’t even manage a goal every 3 games for them.

Amr Zaki wrecked most Premiership defensive he came up against for 6 months, scoring 10 goals before Christmas, but failed to score for the rest of the season.

Benjani, Roque Santa Cruz, Juan Pablo Ángel, James Beattie, etc.

One season wonders are not uncommon but every so often a club gets duped and pays silly money for them and we have added our name to that in spectacular fashion with Carroll.

I think that will only be proven if he never improves from how he is now. If say he were to go on to another club and rediscover his form then the issue will be down to other factors, such as maybe lack of quality elsewhere in the squad to get the best out of him, or poos man managment, tactics used to employ him ect...

So should a whole team have to adapt to a striker or should the striker adapt to the team?

Ideally the team should not be built around 1 player, but let's face facts our squad does not have the quality in depth so we have for many years built our teams around a handful of decent players where the rest are sub par. This isn't always a bad thing though if the player is of good quality eg Torres. Rafa built a team to get the best out of him and it worked a wonder, fast forward and Chelsea don't really have the team designed to get the best out of him and he is struggling. Sure there are other factors at work too here..

But I think putting Suarez and Carroll together like that and expecting them to work side by side was a bad move. Suarez probably would have paired up with Torres fine but for Carroll to play you need the team set up in a different way. Not to mention our wingers are shabite so we will never even see the best of Carroll.

[RedAnt]

Do you remember Michael Ricketts? Scored 15 goals for Bolton by Feb, got capped by England, but quickly worked his way down the leagues after moving to Boro and failing.

I doubt many remember Marcus Stewart, but he scored 19 Premier League goals in one season for Reading, finishing 2nd top goal scorer. He followed up by scoring 6 goals the following season before signing for Sunderland and didn’t even manage a goal every 3 games for them.

Amr Zaki wrecked most Premiership defensive he came up against for 6 months, scoring 10 goals before Christmas, but failed to score for the rest of the season.

Benjani, Roque Santa Cruz, Juan Pablo Ángel, James Beattie, etc.

One season wonders are not uncommon but every so often a club gets duped and pays silly money for them and we have added our name to that in spectacular fashion with Carroll.

Actually, all told, Carroll has had only one bad season and that's this season, so he's not a one season wonder. Maybe this poor season is a one off. I hope so. He's certainly not had much support either from our midfielders or our fans.

[RedAnt]

Sorry but this is groundless.

1) He can head.
2) He can shoot.
3) He will learn to read the game in time.
4) All the time? He does fall quite often, but not "all the time" (pedantic I know, but so is your criticism)
5) Everyone sulks. Carroll's sulks may be justified or maybe they're not.
6) He's lazy at times yeah. He can improve on that with the right coaching and encouragement and if not we'll get rid of him.
7) Can't agree. I think he's given a lot recently, more so than others.
8) He is. Kenny will have had words, don't doubt it. If his attitude dosen't improve, we'll will probably move him on.

But as I asked before, how can you claim he's disrespectful to the manager, yet you yourself cast aside Kenny's thoughts on the matter as irrelevant? It's Kenny he swore at, not you. If Kenny can let it go, can't you too?

[D___C]

Do you remember Michael Ricketts? Scored 15 goals for Bolton by Feb, got capped by England, but quickly worked his way down the leagues after moving to Boro and failing.

I doubt many remember Marcus Stewart, but he scored 19 Premier League goals in one season for Reading, finishing 2nd top goal scorer. He followed up by scoring 6 goals the following season before signing for Sunderland and didn’t even manage a goal every 3 games for them.

Amr Zaki wrecked most Premiership defensive he came up against for 6 months, scoring 10 goals before Christmas, but failed to score for the rest of the season.

Benjani, Roque Santa Cruz, Juan Pablo Ángel, James Beattie, etc.

One season wonders are not uncommon but every so often a club gets duped and pays silly money for them and we have added our name to that in spectacular fashion with Carroll.

its a good comparison

[mart]

Actually, all told, Carroll has had only one bad season and that's this season, so he's not a one season wonder. Maybe this poor season is a one off. I hope so. He's certainly not had much support either from our midfielders or our fans.

He is not a one season wonder as so far he has only had half a good season.

[RedAnt]

Actually, all told, Carroll has had only one bad season and that's this season, so he's not a one season wonder. Maybe this poor season is a one off. I hope so. He's certainly not had much support either from our midfielders or our fans.

He is not a one season wonder as so far he has only had half a good season.

His final two seasons with Newcastle before he joined us were both good seasons. He wasn't established in the team prior to those.

[mart]

Actually, all told, Carroll has had only one bad season and that's this season, so he's not a one season wonder. Maybe this poor season is a one off. I hope so. He's certainly not had much support either from our midfielders or our fans.

He is not a one season wonder as so far he has only had half a good season.

His final two seasons with Newcastle before he joined us were both good seasons. He wasn't established in the team prior to those.

Yes he was decent in the championship....

[RedAnt]

..and prem.

Championship 2009-10 Apps 39, goals 17
Premier League 2010-11 Apps 19 goals 11

Both for Newcastle, then he joined us and the rest is history..

[D___C]

he was available at 2million in August 2009. One year in the Dean Windass Championship... 17 goals is pretty sh't in that league btw. Then 11 goals getting on the end of stuff for long ball Newcastle... and then we go mental

Peter Crouch is a better player than Andy Carroll, and yet we got rid of him.

[mart]

..and prem.

For half a season.

[RedAnt]

..and prem.

For half a season.

But his erratic decline coincides with joining us, not the season calender.

[D___C]

Peter Crouch... is a better player than Andy Carroll.... and we got rid of him

(its a debate killer)