Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

If you want to get rid of anyone then look no further than Henderson

In Henderson's defence he's been played on the right wing all season.

and why is that, genuinely anybody who still thinks kenny is a great manager can they please try to explain his thinking on this one. Henderson is a central midfielder so why play the likes of Adam and spearing in midfield rather than him? I could understand it if Henderson was versatile enough to play as a winger but he clearly isn't, in my opinion it is bad management.

I'll 'try' and reason why I think Henderson has featured more on the right than central. This maybe wrong but this is my theory...

I believe Kenny bought Henderson in as a long-term replacement for Gerrard, even though he'll probably never emulate Gerrard's success here is beside the point - no midfielder would.  Let's not forget Gerrard's injury was pretty serious (which may have resulted us buying an extra midifelder, Adam/Henderson), if I remember rightly he didn't start the season, then got an ankle infection on top of an injury and was out for a long period of time, I remember SS coming on here stating LFC feared the worse that Gerrard may never play again. So, bearing all this in mind along with the 'long term thinking of Henderson's position at the club,' Henderson, out of Spearing, Adam, Gerrard? and Lucas(inj) is probably the only player who's game is adaptable enough to warrant playing him in a different position from CM. With Kuyt seemingly out of favour with Kenny which I personally reckon that, Kenny doesn't appreciate the 'workhorse' as much as the 'footballer' like Rafa did, then his only right footed option out wide was Henderson. It clearly hasn't worked though - I'll give you that, but after watching how low on confidence Henderson is, ever since he joined, I'd be even MORE reluctant to throw him in the engine room, I think this kid needs time, genuinely, and he may well come good once Gerrard hangs his boots up.

Note* I remember reading in Kenny's latest LFC biography when he first started playing for Celtic, his manager played him as a RB or CB (one of the two), for a couple of games. Giving him experience in a different position as a youngster AND because he needed to view how defenders would play against him one day. With all this in mind perhaps this is why Kenny has tried Henderson out wide so frequently?

[heimdall]

In Henderson's defence he's been played on the right wing all season.[/quote]

and why is that, genuinely anybody who still thinks kenny is a great manager can they please try to explain his thinking on this one. Henderson is a central midfielder so why play the likes of Adam and spearing in midfield rather than him? I could understand it if Henderson was versatile enough to play as a winger but he clearly isn't, in my opinion it is bad management.[/quote]

I'll 'try' and reason why I think Henderson has featured more on the right than central. This maybe wrong but this is my theory...

I believe Kenny bought Henderson in as a long-term replacement for Gerrard, even though he'll probably never emulate Gerrard's success here is beside the point - no midfielder would.  Let's not forget Gerrard's injury was pretty serious (which may have resulted us buying an extra midifelder, Adam/Henderson), if I remember rightly he didn't start the season, then got an ankle infection on top of an injury and was out for a long period of time, I remember SS coming on here stating LFC feared the worse that Gerrard may never play again. So, bearing all this in mind along with the 'long term thinking of Henderson's position at the club,' Henderson, out of Spearing, Adam, Gerrard? and Lucas(inj) is probably the only player who's game is adaptable enough to warrant playing him in a different position from CM. With Kuyt seemingly out of favour with Kenny which I personally reckon that, Kenny doesn't appreciate the 'workhorse' as much as the 'footballer' like Rafa did, then his only right footed option out wide was Henderson. It clearly hasn't worked though - I'll give you that, but after watching how low on confidence Henderson is, ever since he joined, I'd be even MORE reluctant to throw him in the engine room, I think this kid needs time, genuinely, and he may well come good once Gerrard hangs his boots up.

Note* I remember reading in Kenny's latest LFC biography when he first started playing for Celtic, his manager played him as a RB or CB (one of the two), for a couple of games. Giving him experience in a different position as a youngster AND because he needed to view how defenders would play against him one day. With all this in mind perhaps this is why Kenny has tried Henderson out wide so frequently?[/quote]

An interesting theory and thanks for replying without calling me an idiot like most posters do, much appreciated.
I can see where you are coming from but when something works you don't just carry on with it, it would have made far more sense playing Kuyt out wide where he has on occasion been fairly effective. Henderson's confidence is now blown and I doubt he'll ever get it back with us, that in my opinion is very poor management/coaching and who knows if Adam or Spearing cold have been better right wing when it was never attempted, although Adam being effective anywhere is very doubtful.

[Thommo's perm]

heimdall:
"An interesting theory and thanks for replying without calling me an idiot like most posters do, much appreciated."

Who does?

[Simari]

Kenny Kan, that is An interesting concept that has provoked a few questions (mixed in with personal opinion):

If the idea is to play Henderson in central midfield, then he's likely to come up against central midfielders. defensive midfielders in the long run - not so much wingers or wide midfielders. In Kenny's role when he played, it does make sense that he probably understood movement along the defensive lines, hence rb and cb(this one is hard to believe, but I'll go with it!) perhaps made sense.

Unfortunately, while Gerrard excelled out on the right during Rafa's reign, it is obvious that Henderson isn't versatile enough to be used there for the benefit of the team. This is turn, leaves us with a fairly one dimensional player, very much like what Aaron Ramsey is turning into at arsenal. For the record, i don't see Arsene holding onto him beyond a couple years. Both are athletic and have energy to burn, but have limited end-product and can produce it from a limited section on the field.

Apologise to any one offended, as this is the Andy Carroll thread    Wouldn't mind carrying this conversation over into Henderson's thread.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

at the start of his career dalglish played centre half in an old firm reserve match directly against alex ferguson who was up front for rangers, he was nearing the end of his career.

[Kenny Kan]

If the idea is to play Henderson in central midfield, then he's likely to come up against central midfielders. defensive midfielders in the long run - not so much wingers or wide midfielders. In Kenny's role when he played, it does make sense that he probably understood movement along the defensive lines, hence rb and cb(this one is hard to believe, but I'll go with it!) perhaps made sense.

Yes Simari, you're right about playing players in a position that sees them pits their wits against their prospective position. Of course, playing Henderson wide right won't do all that for his perspective on CM - you're right! My bad (I was drunk when I posted that), what I mean is, some players are good enough to play in a couple of positions. The best example of this would be Gerrard, he could probably play anywhere on the field in any position and be better than, if not as good as regular starters in that position. Remember, Gerrard's first appearance for the 1st team was at RB, he's since played various positions and does all of them well. If you are versatile enough, then good enough to adapt to a new position - a manager can try and play you elsewhere if he thinks it's best for the team.

Now, out of Adam, Lucas, Spearing, Gerrard and Henderson, we only have one true (as of yet) commanding CM (world class CM - even though he can play elsewhere), player - Gerrard. He was, like I said injured for a very long period of time, so Kenny only had Adam, Lucas (before he got injured), Spearing and Henderson as options for the middle of the park. The first name on his team sheet was Lucas then he usually opted for Adam, perhaps because of the range of passing and the fact he could supposedly make telling passes in the final third to help unlock defenses. Basically, Kenny opted for Adam over Henderson in CM more often than not but out of all those CM's could you see Spearing, Lucas or Adam playing on the right (if Kuyt wasn't Kenny's first choice there) side of midfield to accommodate Henderson. All three players there are accustomed to the CM role for individual reasons, where as Henderson out of the four looked to me to be versatile enough to be played wide right. He posses energy and athleticism, has IMO, game intelligence (more so than Adam), a decent first touch and eye for a pass, plus he can cross a ball. His tackling to be frank is pussy-esq, another reason perhaps why CM at this stage when considering other options there is not AS viable, even though Adam is a dreadful tackler at the best of times he doesn't shirk his responsibility - even though this is a liability and detriment to the team. But Adam has other abilities that make him more accustomed to the central role, more so than the wide areas.

Henderson's abilities (most already mentioned) probably are equally suited to the right, or at least given a try and I think that is what Kenny has done. Henderson will still get first team experience but in another position and obviously Kenny thought Henderson had the ability to perform there. It hasn't paid off though, that's the risk you take as manager though, especially if you believe the player has the ability to play wherever you put him. Personally, I think Henderson has got the characteristics to make a 'decent' RM but for the future he does look one who could be placed in the engine room more, if he wasn't scared to tackle that is  . But the young lad looks very low on confidence and perhaps because he's being asked to play somewhere else doesn't have the self-belief like his manager has in him to play that role and thus his confidence is shot.

I agree though, Dalglish shouldn't have persisted for so long with him there and really Kuyt should have played there much more than he has, while easing Henderson in, in hindsight this looks a better bet. You know what you'll get from Kuyt there and IMO I was devastated when he didn't start the Carling cup final ahead of Henderson because I didn't think Henderson's form warranted it.

Also, if Kenny had persevered with Carroll up top alongside (especially more recently) Suarez like he persevered with Henderson  wide right then that also may have been much more beneficial to Carroll and the team. Kenny has made some mistakes, I make no bones about that but if he can rectify them 'time permitting' then I'd be happy to see how it goes next season, and so.

[D___C]

Carroll maybe hopeless as a forward... but should we give him a go as a central defender?

There isnt the necessity to be good on the floor, or be particularly mobile, which are his two main weaknesses. I would like to see him given a go in the closing league games.. we have nothing to play for so its the ideal time to experiment and see if hes not a write off just yet. Theres no point selling him for a massive loss without exhausting all the possible atlernatives. In 1992/93 Paul Warhurst had the complete opposite happen to him with Sheffield Wednesday... played central defence.. then was shifted upfront and was a revelation alongside David Hurst.

I'm not advocating this by any means, merely a suggestion before we wave off our expensive mistake.

[andy_g]

Carroll maybe hopeless as a forward... but should we give him a go as a central defender?

There isnt the necessity to be good on the floor, or be particularly mobile, which are his two main weaknesses. I would like to see him given a go in the closing league games.. we have nothing to play for so its the ideal time to experiment and see if hes not a write off just yet. Theres no point selling him for a massive loss without exhausting all the possible atlernatives. In 1992/93 Paul Warhurst had the complete opposite happen to him with Sheffield Wednesday... played central defence.. then was shifted upfront and was a revelation alongside David Hurst.

I'm not advocating this by any means, merely a suggestion before we wave off our expensive mistake.

yawn

[Thommo's perm]

Carroll maybe hopeless as a forward... but should we give him a go as a central defender?

There isnt the necessity to be good on the floor, or be particularly mobile, which are his two main weaknesses. I would like to see him given a go in the closing league games.. we have nothing to play for so its the ideal time to experiment and see if hes not a write off just yet. Theres no point selling him for a massive loss without exhausting all the possible atlernatives. In 1992/93 Paul Warhurst had the complete opposite happen to him with Sheffield Wednesday... played central defence.. then was shifted upfront and was a revelation alongside David Hurst.

I'm not advocating this by any means, merely a suggestion before we wave off our expensive mistake.

What makes you say he isnt good on the floor?

[Boxscarf]

What makes you say he isnt good on the floor?

On the contrary Andy is very good on the deck, it's his positioning and forward runs which at times leave a lot to desired.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Carroll maybe hopeless as a forward... but should we give him a go as a central defender?

There isnt the necessity to be good on the floor, or be particularly mobile, which are his two main weaknesses. I would like to see him given a go in the closing league games.. we have nothing to play for so its the ideal time to experiment and see if hes not a write off just yet. Theres no point selling him for a massive loss without exhausting all the possible atlernatives. In 1992/93 Paul Warhurst had the complete opposite happen to him with Sheffield Wednesday... played central defence.. then was shifted upfront and was a revelation alongside David Hurst.

I'm not advocating this by any means, merely a suggestion before we wave off our expensive mistake.

Seriously????  words escape me!

[Thommo's perm]

What makes you say he isnt good on the floor?

On the contrary Andy is very good on the deck, it's his positioning and forward runs which at times leave a lot to desired.

Thats what I thought. In fact I think only one of his goals was from a header and his link play is really good.
Kerrys of the belief that if you say something often enough then it becomes the truth

[Kenny Kan]

Just to lighten the mood    I found Andy Carroll really getting back into the stride of things as of late. 

[D___C]

[maguskwt]

Andy Carroll good on the floor?

Please if Andy Carroll is good on the floor, Dirk Kuyt is feckin Messi!