Liverpool FC Forum

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:28 pm

ok, so i lumped ona season match bet - us against the gooners at a decent price... now we have pi$$ed that away.

does anyone else care if we get 3rd or 4th?

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:42 pm

1-1 at mo between gooners and cheatski. if score stays same we are level on points with gooners but a 2 goal cushion?

so a win at charlton at home should be enough,... if it stays 1-1 that is

gooners away to pompey last game

by **fivecups** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:47 pm

I agree with Rafa resting most of the first choice players yesterday. Its never nice to see the 'Pool loose a match but I'll accept it if we win the Champions League.

I still think we'll get third place. The first team will play against Charlton - they will need the match practice for the 23rd. We'll get 3 points at Anfield even if Charlton are still fighting relegation. Our goal difference is slightly better than Arsenal's.

I wouldn't compromise our chance of number 6 for 3rd place and Im sure our freshness played a part in the victory against Chelsea last week.

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:55 pm

all over... 1-1

so, goes to the final game for 3rd place

by **fivecups** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:58 pm

It's a dark day......... the manc's have just won the league. Feck it someday soon we'll be there.

by **dawson99** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:00 pm

at least cheatski are upset. every cloud.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:17 pm

Look at it this way Dawson, if we get 3rd rather than 4th and finish a few points closer to the Mancs, will that really paper over the cracks of a disappointing league season? Sure, we want to finish as strongly as we can and it's always nice to finish ahead of Arsenal but, in the grand scheme of things, is there a significant difference between 3rd and 4th when measured against our aspirations at the start of the season? Not to me there's not.

As far as I'm concerned, all of our eggs have been in the Champions League basket for some time now and I'd be much more annoyed if we were fielding, and risking injury to, key players at Fratton Park and Craven Cottage in some misguided quest for third. Indeed, I'm glad we're getting to see how weak some of our squad players truly are so that Rafa and the new owners will be under no illusions about the need to splash the cash when the transfer window opens. Our Champions League form has the ability to hide a multitude of shortcomings in the squad and these are being showed up quite well in the league, at the moment.

The bottom line is that no one is going to look back in five years time and dwell on the fact that we p!ssed away a shot at (a distant) third and settled for a (slightly more distant) fourth--especially if we're when we're actually challenging for the title by then! Having said that, I hope you do get to collect on your bet, mate--Woolly's a thirsty boy and he's insisted you're buying him a drink or five when you meet up for the CL final in Liverpool!

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:04 am

well bob when we have to play two qualifiers for 4th instead of one for third (if we dont with the champions league this season) and then have to over rotate next season because of tiredness, the yes it does matter, it matters a great deal, and then next season we finish third and have people telling us 'well it better than last season'

to say it doesnt matter where we finish in the league is wrong, not just from a standards point of view but also financialy as there is more prize money for third place, ok only half a million quid but thats better than not having it.

i cant believe people are saying 4th is ok, i sometimes wonder the level of support some people actually have for liverpool when i see them saying things like this and then making excuses for the team when they fail to perform. no matter what happnes in athens this season has been dire

by **Bad Bob** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:08 am

peewee wrote:well bob when we have to play two qualifiers for 4th instead of one for third (if we dont with the champions league this season) and then have to over rotate next season because of tiredness, the yes it does matter, it matters a great deal, and then next season we finish third and have people telling us 'well it better than last season'

to say it doesnt matter where we finish in the league is wrong, not just from a standards point of view but also financialy as there is more prize money for third place, ok only half a million quid but thats better than not having it.

i cant believe people are saying 4th is ok, i sometimes wonder the level of support some people actually have for liverpool when i see them saying things like this and then making excuses for the team when they fail to perform. no matter what happnes in athens this season has been dire

I know you've asked me this in PM, Peewee, but I'll respond publicly:

1) show me where it says the fourth place team has to play two qualifiers and the third place team play one? As I recall, Arsenal had one set of qualifiers to play last season--Dynamo Zagreb--same as us. Unless the rule's changed, 3rd v. 4th makes no difference for CL qualifiers.

2) In terms of your scenario about what people will say next year, people could just as easily say the following if we finish 3rd: "finished third two years on the trot under Rafa--not bad at all." Since, as you say, our season's been dire...that attitude's just as bad as the one you're concerned with. As I've said in my post, no matter whether we finish 3rd or 4th we can't afford to paper over the cracks in the squad.

3) You're right, the money is different. No argument on that front.

4) If you read my post, you'll see that I'm not saying fourth is okay. Neither am I saying third is okay. Both are disappointing results for a team that had title aspirations back in August. Don't make this out to be a lack of passion, I'm just telling it like it is...like you pride yourself on doing. After all, you told us in Mick's thread that anything short of winning the league is a failure. So, why the concern for the slender discrepancies between 3rd and 4th all of a sudden?

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:16 am

i am a supporter bob, pure and simple, like i said mate its like a religion, and when you have stood on the old kop as many times as i have watching titles being won then you may understand the difference between 3rd and 4th and 1st, maybe you are right, neither is good enough, but we shouldnt even be debating 3rd and 4th, we should be debating will we have the title sewn up by april or will it go to the last game of the season. we were oout the title race last october and that simply isnt good enough

this 'ah its ok, we have excuses' mindset that some people adopt is wrong in my opinion.

i stick by what i said, anything less than the title is a failure, and to use your words nobody will look back in 5 years and dwell about who finished 3rd or 4th, thats my exact point bob, neither 3rd or 4th is good enough, its a failure, but i would rather finish 3rd even though its still a failure

by **Bad Bob** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:19 am

peewee wrote:i am a supporter bob, pure and simple, like i said mate its like a religion, and when you have stood on the old kop as many times as i have watching titles being won then you may understand the difference between 3rd and 4th and 1st, maybe you are right, neither is good enough, but we shouldnt even be debating 3rd and 4th, we should be debating will we have the title sewn up by april or will it go to the last game of the season. we were oout the title race last october and that simply isnt good enough

this 'ah its ok, we have excuses' mindset that some people adopt is wrong in my opinion.

i stick by what i said, anything less than the title is a failure, and to use your words nobody will look back in 5 years and dwell about who finished 3rd or 4th, thats my exact point bob, neither 3rd or 4th is good enough, its a failure

So we agree. :cool:

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:38 am

1 Man Utd 0
2 Chelsea 3
4 Arsenal 3
5 Everton 1
6 Bolton 3
7 Reading 6
8 Portsmouth 1
9 Tottenham 6
10 Blackburn 1
11 Aston Villa 4
12 Middlesbro' 4
13 Newcastle 3
14 Man City 4
15 Fulham 3
16 Sheff Utd 4
17 West Ham 6
18 Wigan 6
19 Charlton 3 still to play
20 Watford 6

thought i would just show how many points we have taken from each team this season, only 5 teams have we taken all 6 points from and 3 of them are in the bottom four showing that most teams took 6 points from them.

now anybody who is prepared to make excuses after such a dismal league system needs to take a look at themselves, this season has been a disgrace and no champions league win is going to change that fact.

people talking about 3rd or 4th, it doesnt really matter (yes i want to finish 3rd as the records will show we finished 3rd and for the extra income) but in the whole scale of things it doesnt matter, the season has been a fecking disgrace, no excuses about team selections, no excuses about resting players for athens.

we won the league in 1978 with 16 players, players who are nowhere near as fit as the guys today.

this league season, rafa got it wrong, and i am amazed when people come on here and put the champions league before the league, but like i say, a lot of you wont have had the thrill of winning the league, wont of have had the thrill of standing there knowing that your boys have done the job and done it well, rather than scrabbling for excuses

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:33 am

I dont think this season has been a disgrace, but it has been a painful step backwards. Rafa's first season was a disgrace (if you exclude all the very valid excuses and CL success)We finished below a mediocre Everton who's only strength was they were a hard working team, and out of the CL places. Finishing 3rd or 4th doesnt matter to me, winning the league is what matters. Our squad is stronger now than it has been for years, while our strongest 11 obviously hasn't improved as much, but hopefully we will see significant movement in this area in the summer.

Rafa said he wanted to build a squad that could compete in every competition, well unfortunately we arnt there yet! Priorities still have to be set. If we had been in Chelsea's position of a couple of weeks ago, I am pretty sure the League would have been our number one target. Fighting for 3rd, perhaps to the detriment of our ONLY chance of glory this season to me would be silly.

In ten years time will we look back in anguish because we lost to Fulham and failed to cement 3rd place, or look back in pride at our 6th CL success? First is first, second is nowhere, is perhaps an over simplification, but 3rd or 4th really doesn't matter (at least not to me)

For me the league title challenge must take priority next season, whether the players and Rafa see it quite as clearly I am not too sure. Is the glory of CL success more important to them, because thats how most foreign countries see it, CL first, League title second!

by **112-1077774096** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:03 am

i get that saint, but the fact that with one game left we are fighting for 3rd or 4th place while being so far behind 1st and 2nd place is a disgrace for our club.

just my opinion, i know we will all have different opinions on this, but for me winning the league did used to give me more satisfaction than the european cup, (obviously in those days you had to win the league to actually be in the european cup so it was a dual hing)

by **Mikz** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:18 am

Probably right there brother..but tell me what sounds better

Champions of England
Champions of EUROPE.

The way I look at it is thus..to compete for the league title nowadays one needs to be filthy rich to maintain the consistency.
We cant maintain that consistency.
But on the day...when it matters - WE WILL PREVAIL!! :buttrock

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