Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dundalk** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:42 pm

Whats going on this season with our away form?

It was tempting to put our flatness tonight down to fatigue, but it was a very familiar performance from this season.

All in all we have played 26 games away from home, we have won seven, drawn seven and lost THIRTEEN. The wins we did get were against Leeds, Unirea, Debrecen, Bolton, West Ham, Everton, Villa. Hardly a load of world beaters.

So why is this? We were alright on the road last year. It cant be all Alonso - can it?

by **Fauxy** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:48 pm

Its about confidence i reckons... from the very first game we have just looked short of confidence. Even in pre-season

by **tubby** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:00 pm

Bit late to be bringing this up isn't it?

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:04 pm

The problem we are having away from home is we are not challenging or winning the second ball. From the very start of the season we have been sitting a little too deep so that when we play the ball forward (hoof)our runners just can't make up the ground quickly enough. The forward does his job challenging for the ball, the ball breaks free ........ none of our players close enough to take advantage.

by **Kerry07** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:01 am

Dundalk wrote:Whats going on this season with our away form?

It was tempting to put our flatness tonight down to fatigue, but it was a very familiar performance from this season.

All in all we have played 26 games away from home, we have won seven, drawn seven and lost TWELVE. The wins we did get were against Leeds, Unirea, Debrecen, Bolton, West Ham, Everton, Villa. Hardly a load of world beaters.

So why is this? We were alright on the road last year. It cant be all Alonso - can it?

Simple answer... lack of talent.

Home advantage is just that.. an advantage, almost a goal head start and nowhere moreso than at Anfield. Our crowd support, cheering every attack, with our name (and pressure of fans) we get the home decisions from the refs, plus away teams are more conservative as they are coming to "This is Anfield"... so it all stacks in our favour.

Away from home we get none of that... so then talent has to carry us to a result.. which we have very little of. Of our 4 away wins in the league all season... we robbed a win at Villa with the last kick of the game and the first chance we luckily created (deflection) for Torres (Pepe made two outstanding saves and Carew glanced header past the post in the 87th minute), we were losing 2-1 with 25 minutes to go at Bolton before they had Davis sent off, we literally stole a win at Woodison with 2 breakaway goals (the 1st a massive deflection with the first time we stepped inside the bitters half) and then Pepe performed heroics to keep us in it with the Afro missing from 4 yards. We have been incredibily fortunate to sneak 3 of our 4 away wins... the other was at West Ham where Torres scored with 15 mins to go (tho i think we deserved that one.. if memory serves)

Tonights 1-0 loss at Atletico was an outstanding result when you compare the talent of the two XI... going like for like...they had Forlan, we had Ngog, they had Simao, we had Lucas, they had Reyes. we had Benayoun, they had Jurado, we had Kuyt... the gulf in talent of each of those 4 positions is vast. Cancelling it out they missed Aguero while we did Torres. We are a 7th or 8th team (where we will certainly finish) in this years Premiership with Gerrard and Torres.. without them we'd finish around the 10th/11th mark (our home advantage would see us accumulate enough to finish there)

This is the least talented XI since Souness was in charge.. when we managed 3 away wins all season (i recall us stealing 3 points at QPR with a late Rosenthal goal)

Our central midfield with lucas at the heart of it is pants..., its non productive, it doesnt control games, its loose, hence opposing teams are dictating.. and now its 18 defeats this season. Teams that come and have a real go at Anfield do very well as Reading discovered. Alonso was a devastating loss as everyone knows.. as he gave us that crucial degree of control in central midfield, with that gone we are then rudderless, loose is the word that best sums us up. Theres no method to our play. Half decent opposition exploit this.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:20 am

I said in the match thread our away form has been truly dire this season. From memory alone I can recall that in our EL games, we've lost in the first leg and had to win in the second to progress. Last season it was our home form that cost us the league and now this

I really dont know why but when we're away I have little confidence of us picking up a result. I'd rather we came out and went for teams

I dont think we have a lack of talent in the squad for a minute. We have got enough to beat most teams man for man, its the way we set up. To NOT LOSE rather than to WIN. It p!sses me off :angry:

by **Kerry07** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:55 am

You have the blinkers on.. and are over-rating our players.

Take off the rose tinted specs.. and look at the players. Imagine you were facing a team next week that contained the ilk of Lucas, Kuyt, Ngog... you'd be rubbing your hands with "these are sh'ite", and fully expect to get a result, as 18 teams have done this season.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:35 am

Bizarre. Our home form is going on for better than last season but our away form is thus far on a par with Birmingham, Wolves and Stoke. When the chips were down we often pulled out results at Anfield in spite of how bad the team was playing (Man U, Spurs, Everton). Away from home with that psychological edge removed, our weaknesses became more exposed and we've found it difficult to cope. Can't really say much more than that. Sh!te teams usually struggle away from home.

by **Penguins** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:13 am

Kerry07 wrote:
Dundalk wrote:Whats going on this season with our away form?

It was tempting to put our flatness tonight down to fatigue, but it was a very familiar performance from this season.

All in all we have played 26 games away from home, we have won seven, drawn seven and lost TWELVE. The wins we did get were against Leeds, Unirea, Debrecen, Bolton, West Ham, Everton, Villa. Hardly a load of world beaters.

So why is this? We were alright on the road last year. It cant be all Alonso - can it?

Simple answer... lack of talent.

Home advantage is just that.. an advantage, almost a goal head start and nowhere moreso than at Anfield. Our crowd support, cheering every attack, with our name (and pressure of fans) we get the home decisions from the refs, plus away teams are more conservative as they are coming to "This is Anfield"... so it all stacks in our favour.

Away from home we get none of that... so then talent has to carry us to a result.. which we have very little of. Of our 4 away wins in the league all season... we robbed a win at Villa with the last kick of the game and the first chance we luckily created (deflection) for Torres (Pepe made two outstanding saves and Carew glanced header past the post in the 87th minute), we were losing 2-1 with 25 minutes to go at Bolton before they had Davis sent off, we literally stole a win at Woodison with 2 breakaway goals (the 1st a massive deflection with the first time we stepped inside the bitters half) and then Pepe performed heroics to keep us in it with the Afro missing from 4 yards. We have been incredibily fortunate to sneak 3 of our 4 away wins... the other was at West Ham where Torres scored with 15 mins to go (tho i think we deserved that one.. if memory serves)

Tonights 1-0 loss at Atletico was an outstanding result when you compare the talent of the two XI... going like for like...they had Forlan, we had Ngog, they had Simao, we had Lucas, they had Reyes. we had Benayoun, they had Jurado, we had Kuyt... the gulf in talent of each of those 4 positions is vast. Cancelling it out they missed Aguero while we did Torres. We are a 7th or 8th team (where we will certainly finish) in this years Premiership with Gerrard and Torres.. without them we'd finish around the 10th/11th mark (our home advantage would see us accumulate enough to finish there)

This is the least talented XI since Souness was in charge.. when we managed 3 away wins all season (i recall us stealing 3 points at QPR with a late Rosenthal goal)

Our central midfield with lucas at the heart of it is pants..., its non productive, it doesnt control games, its loose, hence opposing teams are dictating.. and now its 18 defeats this season. Teams that come and have a real go at Anfield do very well as Reading discovered. Alonso was a devastating loss as everyone knows.. as he gave us that crucial degree of control in central midfield, with that gone we are then rudderless, loose is the word that best sums us up. Theres no method to our play. Half decent opposition exploit this.

Well, have to agree with this, even if your dislike for Rafa is a bit too much.

Just a bit though

by **Owzat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:27 am

Kerry07 wrote:This is the least talented XI since Souness was in charge.. when we managed 3 away wins all season (i recall us stealing 3 points at QPR with a late Rosenthal goal)

We are currently on the second least away wins in the Premiership, but do have Burnley and Hull to come which could be wins if Rafa doesn't write off the league and rest players for the return leg of the EDL.

Fewest Premiership Away Goals

09/10 : 14 in 17 games (0.824 gpg)
06/07 : 18 in 19 games (0.947 gpg)
92/93 : 21 in 21 games (1.000 gpg)
04/05 : 21 in 19 games (1.105 gpg)

Ironically most away goals in a Premiership season came last season (36) Second most was when Houllier came second in 01/02 (34)

As for generally, well we won 13 away games last season but how many of those were convincing?

1-0 vs Sunderland - 83rd minute Torres winner
3-2 vs Man City - thanks to a red card and coming from behind in the last 20 mins (two goals after the red card)
1-0 vs Chelsea - deflected Alonso goal wasn't it?
1-0 vs Fulham - very late winner
3-2 vs Portsmouth - scored twice in the last five minutes as Rafa brought on the scorers Kuyt and Torres

And most of the rest were bog standard wins against ordinary opposition like West Ham, WBA, bitters, Bolton, Hull and Blackburn who we should be looking to beat on the roads.

Maybe the key difference has been luck, instead of red cards for fouls on Alonso we're seeing some bad luck go against us ie beachballs scoring. But for comparison here's the games we won last season and the same result this :

Man City (a) W-D
Everton (a) W-W
Bolton (a) W-W
West Ham (a) W-W
Portsmouth (a) W-L
Fulham (a) W-L
Chelsea (a) W-L
Man Utd (a) W-L
Man City (a) W-D
Sunderland (a) W-L
Hull (a) W-?

08/09 : P11 W11 D0 L0
09/10 : P10 W3 D2 L5

Can anyone honestly say that those wins in 08/09 that were defeats in 09/10 were convincing and expected last season? Convincing in the manc game, but not expected. Not expected against Chelsea either so I reckon we exceeded expectations last season with a bit of luck thrown in, this season we've not had nearly as much assistance from luck and not deserved much in some games eg Wolves, pompey, Sunderland (not scoring in 85 mins AFTER the goal that shouldn't have counted)

Two of last seasons away wins got relegated, we could only draw at newly promoted sides brum and Wolves while we haven't played Burnley away. We can come unstuck at sides that have been promoted and/or who get relegated (Palace, Boro, Reading, Pompey to name four off the top of my head)

Our away form is crucial to mounting any title challenge, we need to win 27 games or more overall and if Rafa sets his stall out to try and nick three points rather than set his sights on them from the off, then I doubt we'll ever win it under him - unless he has enough money that the side is so good it would struggle not to win most games. The mancs may not always deserve their wins, away or otherwise, but they don't set out to draw as they know that counts for little when the points are added up.

by **sixbuster** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:46 am

Kerry07 wrote:
Dundalk wrote:Whats going on this season with our away form?

It was tempting to put our flatness tonight down to fatigue, but it was a very familiar performance from this season.

All in all we have played 26 games away from home, we have won seven, drawn seven and lost TWELVE. The wins we did get were against Leeds, Unirea, Debrecen, Bolton, West Ham, Everton, Villa. Hardly a load of world beaters.

So why is this? We were alright on the road last year. It cant be all Alonso - can it?

Simple answer... lack of talent.

Home advantage is just that.. an advantage, almost a goal head start and nowhere moreso than at Anfield. Our crowd support, cheering every attack, with our name (and pressure of fans) we get the home decisions from the refs, plus away teams are more conservative as they are coming to "This is Anfield"... so it all stacks in our favour.

Away from home we get none of that... so then talent has to carry us to a result.. which we have very little of. Of our 4 away wins in the league all season... we robbed a win at Villa with the last kick of the game and the first chance we luckily created (deflection) for Torres (Pepe made two outstanding saves and Carew glanced header past the post in the 87th minute), we were losing 2-1 with 25 minutes to go at Bolton before they had Davis sent off, we literally stole a win at Woodison with 2 breakaway goals (the 1st a massive deflection with the first time we stepped inside the bitters half) and then Pepe performed heroics to keep us in it with the Afro missing from 4 yards. We have been incredibily fortunate to sneak 3 of our 4 away wins... the other was at West Ham where Torres scored with 15 mins to go (tho i think we deserved that one.. if memory serves)

Tonights 1-0 loss at Atletico was an outstanding result when you compare the talent of the two XI... going like for like...they had Forlan, we had Ngog, they had Simao, we had Lucas, they had Reyes. we had Benayoun, they had Jurado, we had Kuyt... the gulf in talent of each of those 4 positions is vast. Cancelling it out they missed Aguero while we did Torres. We are a 7th or 8th team (where we will certainly finish) in this years Premiership with Gerrard and Torres.. without them we'd finish around the 10th/11th mark (our home advantage would see us accumulate enough to finish there)

This is the least talented XI since Souness was in charge.. when we managed 3 away wins all season (i recall us stealing 3 points at QPR with a late Rosenthal goal)

Our central midfield with lucas at the heart of it is pants..., its non productive, it doesnt control games, its loose, hence opposing teams are dictating.. and now its 18 defeats this season. Teams that come and have a real go at Anfield do very well as Reading discovered. Alonso was a devastating loss as everyone knows.. as he gave us that crucial degree of control in central midfield, with that gone we are then rudderless, loose is the word that best sums us up. Theres no method to our play. Half decent opposition exploit this.

Good post, agree entirely

by **lakes10** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:54 am

all i know i think we have had somthing like 52 games so far and lost 18 of them.......

saying that Fulham have had 62 games and have lost 19 games.

I wonder how we will do next year when we have to play the extra 10 games in the EL.?

by **Judge** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:56 am

Fauxy wrote:Its about confidence i reckons... from the very first game we have just looked short of confidence. Even in pre-season

no it isnt, we sold quality and brought in shi'te and sick notes (that doesnt include torres), i mean lucas et al

by **jacdaniel** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:32 am

i think we play far too negative away from home. its crazy cos we're a totally different team at Anfield. This season has proved that you wont win matches if you play 2 DMs (lucas and Masch) a young striker (ngog) and a defensive forward on the right wing (kuyt).

Gerrard can still pick out beautiful passes and make runs forward. but whats the point when there is no movement?

I think we have a half decent spine to our team. Reina is one of the worlds finest in goal. Carra is still a great defender for another season for two. Agger, Skrtel and the Greek provide enough cover at centre back. Aqua man deserves another season as he looks good when he is fit and actually plays. Mascherano is obviously a great DM. Gerrard and Torres. (need i say more?)

And Yossi, Kuyt, Maxi are good squad players. So for me, the big problem areas are left back, right back, up front and yet again, wingers.

So i agree with Rafa, Gerrard and Torres that we need about 4 quality players. And if possible, another CM would help too. johnson for right wing would be a great idea and would save money for the other areas. maybe kelly for right back and carra can provide cover.

Back on topic, we're not winning away from home cos we don't really have the right players on the field. Ngog will never strike fear into a team on his own up front. or kuyt

by **Owzat** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:43 pm

Judge wrote:
Fauxy wrote:Its about confidence i reckons... from the very first game we have just looked short of confidence. Even in pre-season

no it isnt, we sold quality and brought in shi'te and sick notes (that doesnt include torres), i mean lucas et al

Confidence is such a lame excuse, didn't it do the rounds re Crouch, Keane and anyone else for poor performances...................

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