Fauxy wrote:I agree, Johnson has shown us he can justify his price and Aquilani may have been injury prone at Roma but he may not be here.
Its the ale mate, the ale.
EMILIANO INSUA - Official Thread
by JC_81 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:06 pm
Just thought I'd try and gauge opinions on how Insua is developing this season.
Is he good enough to be first choice left back in a top four team? Or as is the case at the moment, is he good enough to be having an extended run in the team like Liverpool?
I think the lad is playing alright, he's certainly holding his own at this level and I'm relieved that someone has actually progressed from our reserves to the first team after buying 500 young players with potential from overseas. But I do have doubts about how good he can become.
To me he looks like he is going to be very limited in an attacking sense. The reason? Simply he doesn't have the power or pace to be getting up and down the line. He could do it in the reserves, but physically if he doesn't develop then I can't see him being good enough long term for this league. He doesn't look the quickest and he's also the shortest player in the league. He's weak aerially as you'd expect.
In terms of positives I think his positional play has improved, he's a good tackler and all round a tidy enough footballer. If our reserves produced a player like him every season or two it'd certainly be good for our squad, but does anyone else have their doubts about him as a future first choice left back?
Is he good enough to be first choice left back in a top four team? Or as is the case at the moment, is he good enough to be having an extended run in the team like Liverpool?
I think the lad is playing alright, he's certainly holding his own at this level and I'm relieved that someone has actually progressed from our reserves to the first team after buying 500 young players with potential from overseas. But I do have doubts about how good he can become.
To me he looks like he is going to be very limited in an attacking sense. The reason? Simply he doesn't have the power or pace to be getting up and down the line. He could do it in the reserves, but physically if he doesn't develop then I can't see him being good enough long term for this league. He doesn't look the quickest and he's also the shortest player in the league. He's weak aerially as you'd expect.
In terms of positives I think his positional play has improved, he's a good tackler and all round a tidy enough footballer. If our reserves produced a player like him every season or two it'd certainly be good for our squad, but does anyone else have their doubts about him as a future first choice left back?
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by Sabre » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:13 pm
I agree in your current diagnostic but I disagree in your future diagnostic.
He might not have the pace, but he's football skill is beyond words like tidy in my view. Added to that, I still see a bit of drought of good players in that position in my country or in europe in general.
I think we'll have to pay a price for his unexperience (mistakes), but I think he has got a lot of chances of being the LB of this top club IF injuries respect him.
He might not have the pace, but he's football skill is beyond words like tidy in my view. Added to that, I still see a bit of drought of good players in that position in my country or in europe in general.
I think we'll have to pay a price for his unexperience (mistakes), but I think he has got a lot of chances of being the LB of this top club IF injuries respect him.
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by LFC2007 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:50 pm
He's done alright, a decent, tidy player without having anything really special about him.
The LB slot is an area of the squad that should present any serious problems to our title aspirations - key assumptions are that Aurelio has to stay reasonably healthy and that Dossena's contribution remains limited. I think having Riera combining lessens the burden on the LB to make as much of a contrbution as other leading LBs do, or by comparison that of Johnson down the right. We're reasonably balanced down the wings with everyone fit and playing well.
In a defensive sense, Insua's rarely caught out badly, he usually does enough. Clearly, he's short, more of a vulnerability in the air compared to most, but if everything else is working well in the side, he'll more often than not slot in fine and won't be called upon much in either an attacking or defensive sense.
That fact he's Argenintian, and that fact that Argentina are desperate for good defenders bodes well for the future; for him, for us and for his price tag.
The LB slot is an area of the squad that should present any serious problems to our title aspirations - key assumptions are that Aurelio has to stay reasonably healthy and that Dossena's contribution remains limited. I think having Riera combining lessens the burden on the LB to make as much of a contrbution as other leading LBs do, or by comparison that of Johnson down the right. We're reasonably balanced down the wings with everyone fit and playing well.
In a defensive sense, Insua's rarely caught out badly, he usually does enough. Clearly, he's short, more of a vulnerability in the air compared to most, but if everything else is working well in the side, he'll more often than not slot in fine and won't be called upon much in either an attacking or defensive sense.
That fact he's Argenintian, and that fact that Argentina are desperate for good defenders bodes well for the future; for him, for us and for his price tag.
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by JoeTerp » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:49 pm
I would say that Insua was very unlucky not to have more of his crosses put away into the back of the net.
Based on his reseve form, I would say the only part of his game that he hasn't quite brought up to the higher level yet is his close quarters passing and movement at the edge of the box. He has only shown very small glimpses of this so far for the first team, but he did it all the time for the reserves. My guess is that he doesn't have the confidence yet and if afraid of getting caught out. He also seems more reliant on his left foot now that he did in the reserves.
Got to assume as a defender he will only improve with time, albeit slowly and gradually.
Based on his reseve form, I would say the only part of his game that he hasn't quite brought up to the higher level yet is his close quarters passing and movement at the edge of the box. He has only shown very small glimpses of this so far for the first team, but he did it all the time for the reserves. My guess is that he doesn't have the confidence yet and if afraid of getting caught out. He also seems more reliant on his left foot now that he did in the reserves.
Got to assume as a defender he will only improve with time, albeit slowly and gradually.
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by JC_81 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 pm
JoeTerp wrote:Since he will count as one of the unlimited U21s next season, and then a home grown player after that, I don't see him going anywhere for a while.
He turns 21 in January, so he won't be an 'unlimited U21 player next season'.
He joined us in January 2007 and would have been here for 3 years by January 2010, but whether he signed before or after his birthday in Jan '07 may determine whether he has trained with us for 3 years before the age of 21 and therefore be classed as 'homegrown' next season. My guess is he won't because he was initially on loan and his deal was only made permanent after 18 months - I don't think he will count as being 'trained by us' while he was a loan player, but it depends on the exact regulations when they come into play.
My guess however is that we will never be able to count Insua as 'homegrown'.
Last edited by JC_81 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by JoeTerp » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:02 am
I don't think you have read the details of the rules
Even IF the loan spell doesn't count, his three years are 07/08, 08/09, and 09/10
And you are not reading the details on U21 either. It has to do with being U21 at the start of the year in which the season starts.
Even IF the loan spell doesn't count, his three years are 07/08, 08/09, and 09/10
And you are not reading the details on U21 either. It has to do with being U21 at the start of the year in which the season starts.
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by stmichael » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:19 am
john craig wrote:JoeTerp wrote:Since he will count as one of the unlimited U21s next season, and then a home grown player after that, I don't see him going anywhere for a while.
He turns 21 in January, so he won't be an 'unlimited U21 player next season'.
He joined us in January 2007 and would have been here for 3 years by January 2010, but whether he signed before or after his birthday in Jan '07 may determine whether he has trained with us for 3 years before the age of 21 and therefore be classed as 'homegrown' next season. My guess is he won't because he was initially on loan and his deal was only made permanent after 18 months - I don't think he will count as being 'trained by us' while he was a loan player, but it depends on the exact regulations when they come into play.
My guess however is that we will never be able to count Insua as 'homegrown'.
Yep.
Insua sign a pro deal in Aug 2007 so would be elidgable by next August which is fine. Im not sure if loan deals count or not (they should), as if so Inusa would count from the start of Jan 2010. Plessis is similar to Insua in that he'd qualify next August.
NGog wouldnt qualify at all I dont think, as he will be (just) 22 by the time he has played 3 years for us (July 2011).
Ayala will qualify in September 2010.
The likes of Pacheco will also qualify by next summer. Plus we have a load of rezzies who are English as it is (Spearing, Darby, Kelly, Amoo, Eccleston, Irwin, etc.)
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by Nando26 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:28 am
Insuas only 20 name any 20 year old left backs setting the world alight
Rafas probally told him to curb his attacking instincts for awhile & concentrate on his defensive play as that was his major flaw last season & to be air to the lad hes taking the responsibility which bodes well for the future (take note Babel)
People questioning his ability to get past men & deliver a good cross is laughable maybe theyve been watching another insua im not aware of
Hopefully in the coming years hell cement his position in the team for a long time
Rafas probally told him to curb his attacking instincts for awhile & concentrate on his defensive play as that was his major flaw last season & to be air to the lad hes taking the responsibility which bodes well for the future (take note Babel)
People questioning his ability to get past men & deliver a good cross is laughable maybe theyve been watching another insua im not aware of
Hopefully in the coming years hell cement his position in the team for a long time
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by DrPepe » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:31 am
Nando26 wrote:Insuas only 20 name any 20 year old left backs setting the world alight
Rafas probally told him to curb his attacking instincts for awhile & concentrate on his defensive play as that was his major flaw last season & to be air to the lad hes taking the responsibility which bodes well for the future (take note Babel)
People questioning his ability to get past men & deliver a good cross is laughable maybe theyve been watching another insua im not aware of
Hopefully in the coming years hell cement his position in the team for a long time
yeah that ↑
that very fact that Zapata has come straight from the reserves and has managed to not look out of place in the PL suggest he's a bit special, not many do that
"If I put a player in another position, suddenly 20 experts are going on about it. Experts of what, though? I don't know." - Rafa
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by Nando26 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:33 am
JoeTerp wrote:I don't think you have read the details of the rules
Even IF the loan spell doesn't count, his three years are 07/08, 08/09, and 09/10
And you are not reading the details on U21 either. It has to do with being U21 at the start of the year in which the season starts.
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by JoeTerp » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:54 pm
stmichael wrote:john craig wrote:JoeTerp wrote:Since he will count as one of the unlimited U21s next season, and then a home grown player after that, I don't see him going anywhere for a while.
He turns 21 in January, so he won't be an 'unlimited U21 player next season'.
He joined us in January 2007 and would have been here for 3 years by January 2010, but whether he signed before or after his birthday in Jan '07 may determine whether he has trained with us for 3 years before the age of 21 and therefore be classed as 'homegrown' next season. My guess is he won't because he was initially on loan and his deal was only made permanent after 18 months - I don't think he will count as being 'trained by us' while he was a loan player, but it depends on the exact regulations when they come into play.
My guess however is that we will never be able to count Insua as 'homegrown'.
Yep.
Insua sign a pro deal in Aug 2007 so would be elidgable by next August which is fine. Im not sure if loan deals count or not (they should), as if so Inusa would count from the start of Jan 2010. Plessis is similar to Insua in that he'd qualify next August.
NGog wouldnt qualify at all I dont think, as he will be (just) 22 by the time he has played 3 years for us (July 2011).
Ayala will qualify in September 2010.
The likes of Pacheco will also qualify by next summer. Plus we have a load of rezzies who are English as it is (Spearing, Darby, Kelly, Amoo, Eccleston, Irwin, etc.)
Plessis and N'gog will both never be homegrown English players. However, N'gog can go on next years U21 list.
Every other youngster we have (with the possible exception of Nemeth because he is on loan to Greece, and I am not sure how those rules work) will count as homegrown when they turn 21.
BUT being U21 is BETTER than being homegrown
How long players will still count as U21s:
1989 10/11
Emiliano Insua
Krisztian Nemeth(?*)
David N'Gog*
1990 11/12:
Martin Kelly
Peter Gulacsi
Martin Hansen
Steve Irwin
Dani Ayala
Nathan Eccleston
Dean Bouzanis
Vincent Weijl
1991 12/13:
Dani Pacheco
Gerardo Bruna
Alexander Kacaniklic
David Amoo
Adam Pepper
Lauri Dalla Valle
Nikola Saric
Victor Palsson
Chris Mavinga
Chris Oldfield
1992 13/14:
Christopher Buchtmann
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