Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:24 pm

It's funny how if ever I disagree with Rafa I'm a dildo salesman trying to tell a man with coaching badges how to do his job, whereas other people can disagree with the manager willy nilly and they are never disloyal, they never hate Rafa with a passion, they never dream about his wedding tackle, they are always real fans, and they are never fickle

.

Rafa tried to sell Alonso last Summer and use the money to replace him with Barry. I think we can take it as a given then that at that point Rafa thought that Barry was the better player as far as Liverpool was concerned. I didn't/don't agree with him and said so at the time, but there were others who's disagreement was much more vociferous. Now there's talk of us signing Scott Parker, and once again people are quite happy to passionately disagree (as they absolutely should be) and there's talk that we may let Alonso go, and there's people writing off our title chances based on the sale of one player.

I've got absolutely no problem with any of that, I'm just curious why if you disagree with Rafa over Alonso/Barry you don't want "big Sam yeah :laugh:

" as manager? Why is it possible as a Joe punter to know more about Spanish International midfielders than our esteemed manager, but not to know more about Spanish International centre forwards? why is it disrespectful to him to say he's got it wrong on rotation/delayed gazelle/styling but OK to completely disagree with him visa vis new transfer possibilities? Very odd.

In Rafa I trust-as long as he does things which I agree with

And I'm fickle :laugh:

by **GYBS** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:30 pm

well thats confused me

by **aCe'** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:55 pm

Sabre wrote:
s@int wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Sabre wrote:
I'll start the ball rolling: we'll likely lose a lot of those lovely diagonal 'out' balls that Alonso specialized in. The kind that that would sail 40 yards and arrive calf height for a winger or fullback to bring down. If he goes, I'm going to miss those and I'm going to wonder how much he would have liked drilling those kind of balls out to Johnson on the right.

His Diagonal balls are great to see and easy to control, but what I'll miss most is his brain's speed, because it's rare, and because the diagonal balls have been often wasted in the boots of Kuyt, Babel, Riise or Pennant. He knows what to do with the ball he's going to receive and he chooses the right pass within the options at a lightning speed.

That speed of his football brain is what makes me smile when a poster I don't want to remember mentions Barry and he says that he's closer to the strikers.... and he's more mobile... and he scores more goals.... and a lot of suspension points like that that still make him a player worth of 10M less because he hasn't that speed nor right criteria to select the first passes (even if he is more than a good player). A crucial moment in football that, and it's the kind of ability that you see and you think ah!, so easy, so logical, that's what you should expect anyway, but you get it rarely.

I don't think we'll mis his range shots much, despite he has the technical ability for it, and the oppositions are aware of it, he hasn't given us much in that front in his hell in Liverpool.

I'd better leave this post now, because the more I write the more livid I am to see him playing in white. I still think that Liverpool and Rafa should be very firm about this and if we don't get enough money, we should make Alonso stay. Nobody put a gun on Alonso's head when he signed his 5 year contract, and we have to defend our interests like Ferguson did, like O'Neil did, like Valencia has with Villa, and like everybody does.

Ill leave the Alonso W*nk part for someone else to comment on but the one thing i didnt get was the Barry part...
Im admittedly one of the many posters around here who seems to think that Barry would offer more mobility than Alonso ever did, would offer more of a dirct attacking threat, would get on the baller higher up the pitch (closer to the strikers as you put it)...etc etc
Does that make Barry the better player ? no it doesnt .. again, just means they have different styles of playing the role...
Personally, i dont think theres as big a gap in quality between the 2 players as you seem to suggest... Barry is far from a sluggish slow player who takes forever to pick a pass and lacks in creativity..etc etc.. Barry probably has more goals and assists to his name in the last couple of seasons than Alonso does in his entire career.. so theres a point to be made about directly comparing their contributions to the side in such specific terms...
Whats a first pass anyways ? a pass when under pressure ? or just a normal pass ? theres no doubt Alonso has the better passing range of the two players... probably better at deciding about the best pass available too but then again.. do that make him a better player than any other midfielder who's inferior to him in that department? i dont think so...

Bottom line is... Barry offers thing that Alonso never will... 16 goals and 17 assists in the last couple of seasons to be specific.. Alonso on the other hand has attributes to his game that no many other players possess... personally i'd take Alonso ahead of Barry every day of the week but i wouldnt over exaggerate the difference in quality between the two...
about the 10mill thing... well Benitez didnt see things that way last season now did he ?! Try to offload Alonso to add a few mill to that to finance Barry or did we all just forget that ?!

Good post Ace.

It always amazes me when someone is so bigheaded as to try to rate a player they have hardly seen, especially after they made such a disasterous appraisal of Torres.

What amazes me is that someone says good post to a poster that considers "W*nk" good words about a Liverpool player compared to a rival player while he insults the poster who defends the Liverpool player, and the next day he pontificates about the right to write opinions without being insulted even if those opinions defend Manchester United players.

A true paradox in a Liverpool forum with always the same posters in the same roles

I don't know the other millions of bigheaded football fans who rate Alonso over Barry clearly (I'm not counting the millions of continentals who say Barry who?, just the millions that know both players), but I'll keep considering Alonso a far better player, and besides that I'll keep having that bonus of bias towards all Liverpool players when compared them to other rival players.

Of course it's nice there are other posters who don't, who never got anything wrong and never wrote in newkit something that eventually proved to be utter bóllocks. Yeh, we have a few infalible posters here, they're always right, no matter if we challenge, we don't, we sell Alonso, or we don't.

Anyway, I hope the league starts soon

On the topic of valuation I agree Bob and GYBS, no xlub let their players cheaply and we shouldn't neither. Not that the valuation Ace' does is nuts, it's that nobody in football act against their interests, and it's in our best interest to try and rip off rival clubs who are attacking our structure.

What amazes me is that someone says good post to a poster that considers "W*nk" good words about a Liverpool player compared to a rival player while he insults the poster who defends the Liverpool player, and the next day he pontificates about the right to write opinions without being insulted even if those opinions defend Manchester United players.

First off, i apologized because i knew you'd take what i said literally... what i meant by Alonso W*nk was 'excessive appraisal' to put it in terms you can probably look up on a merriem-webster.. There was no defending a Liverpool player and no slagging him off either... all in your head fella... You most certainly have a right to express your opinion and i didnt intend to insult you or deride your opinion... was simply arguing against the point you made because i simply didnt agree with it..

Anyways, i wont comment on all the other nonsense in your post because i think that theres no need for this to drag on so lets not keep bringing it up...

by **mjlfc09** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:12 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....568.ece
From The Times
July 22, 2009
Xabi Alonso closes in on Real Madrid move
James Ducker, Oliver Kay

Xabi Alonso will take a step closer to joining Real Madrid today by missing Liverpool's latest pre-season match with what has been described as a “minor injury”.

The Spain midfield player is determined to join Real, who had a £24 million bid rejected last week, and has ruled himself out of Liverpool's match against a Thailand XI in Bangkok later today while the stalemate over the prospective move continues. Liverpool want about £32million for him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is true then Alonso is a real dick head and can :censored:

off to Real Madrid now for all I care. :angry:

by **Greavesie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:28 pm

mjlfc09 wrote:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....568.ece
From The Times
July 22, 2009
Xabi Alonso closes in on Real Madrid move
James Ducker, Oliver Kay

Xabi Alonso will take a step closer to joining Real Madrid today by missing Liverpool's latest pre-season match with what has been described as a “minor injury”.

The Spain midfield player is determined to join Real, who had a £24 million bid rejected last week, and has ruled himself out of Liverpool's match against a Thailand XI in Bangkok later today while the stalemate over the prospective move continues. Liverpool want about £32million for him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is true then Alonso is a real dick head and can off to Real Madrid now for all I care.

i'm getting very bored of this Alonso stuff now. If he's gonna go say so, if not say, simple...right?

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:31 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Bammo wrote:Most Kuyt related comments occur in the match day threads...usually why isn't he subbed yet? followed by silence when he scores the last minute winner

has Alonso been put into a press conference in asia yet?

No...Rafa's keeping him bound and gagged in his hotel room closet.

No hes not Bob hes been putting on a private show for me. :laugh:

If only there was a Father Christmas :laugh:

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/ERV537m9nN1WUNn7

by **Greavesie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:36 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Bammo wrote:Most Kuyt related comments occur in the match day threads...usually why isn't he subbed yet? followed by silence when he scores the last minute winner

has Alonso been put into a press conference in asia yet?

No...Rafa's keeping him bound and gagged in his hotel room closet.

No hes not Bob hes been putting on a private show for me. If only there was a Father Christmas

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/ERV537m9nN1WUNn7

by **LFC2007** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:04 am

bigmick wrote:It's funny how if ever I disagree with Rafa I'm a dildo salesman trying to tell a man with coaching badges how to do his job, whereas other people can disagree with the manager willy nilly and they are never disloyal, they never hate Rafa with a passion, they never dream about his wedding tackle, they are always real fans, and they are never fickle .

Rafa tried to sell Alonso last Summer and use the money to replace him with Barry. I think we can take it as a given then that at that point Rafa thought that Barry was the better player as far as Liverpool was concerned. I didn't/don't agree with him and said so at the time, but there were others who's disagreement was much more vociferous. Now there's talk of us signing Scott Parker, and once again people are quite happy to passionately disagree (as they absolutely should be) and there's talk that we may let Alonso go, and there's people writing off our title chances based on the sale of one player.

I've got absolutely no problem with any of that, I'm just curious why if you disagree with Rafa over Alonso/Barry you don't want "big Sam yeah " as manager? Why is it possible as a Joe punter to know more about Spanish International midfielders than our esteemed manager, but not to know more about Spanish International centre forwards? why is it disrespectful to him to say he's got it wrong on rotation/delayed gazelle/styling but OK to completely disagree with him visa vis new transfer possibilities? Very odd.

In Rafa I trust-as long as he does things which I agree with

And I'm fickle

This is not an admissible post.

:wwww

by **metalhead** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:05 am

bigmick wrote:It's funny how if ever I disagree with Rafa I'm a dildo salesman trying to tell a man with coaching badges how to do his job, whereas other people can disagree with the manager willy nilly and they are never disloyal, they never hate Rafa with a passion, they never dream about his wedding tackle, they are always real fans, and they are never fickle .

Rafa tried to sell Alonso last Summer and use the money to replace him with Barry. I think we can take it as a given then that at that point Rafa thought that Barry was the better player as far as Liverpool was concerned. I didn't/don't agree with him and said so at the time, but there were others who's disagreement was much more vociferous. Now there's talk of us signing Scott Parker, and once again people are quite happy to passionately disagree (as they absolutely should be) and there's talk that we may let Alonso go, and there's people writing off our title chances based on the sale of one player.

I've got absolutely no problem with any of that, I'm just curious why if you disagree with Rafa over Alonso/Barry you don't want "big Sam yeah " as manager? Why is it possible as a Joe punter to know more about Spanish International midfielders than our esteemed manager, but not to know more about Spanish International centre forwards? why is it disrespectful to him to say he's got it wrong on rotation/delayed gazelle/styling but OK to completely disagree with him visa vis new transfer possibilities? Very odd.

In Rafa I trust-as long as he does things which I agree with

And I'm fickle

humorous post mate

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:06 am

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's funny how if ever I disagree with Rafa I'm a dildo salesman trying to tell a man with coaching badges how to do his job, whereas other people can disagree with the manager willy nilly and they are never disloyal, they never hate Rafa with a passion, they never dream about his wedding tackle, they are always real fans, and they are never fickle .

Rafa tried to sell Alonso last Summer and use the money to replace him with Barry. I think we can take it as a given then that at that point Rafa thought that Barry was the better player as far as Liverpool was concerned. I didn't/don't agree with him and said so at the time, but there were others who's disagreement was much more vociferous. Now there's talk of us signing Scott Parker, and once again people are quite happy to passionately disagree (as they absolutely should be) and there's talk that we may let Alonso go, and there's people writing off our title chances based on the sale of one player.

I've got absolutely no problem with any of that, I'm just curious why if you disagree with Rafa over Alonso/Barry you don't want "big Sam yeah " as manager? Why is it possible as a Joe punter to know more about Spanish International midfielders than our esteemed manager, but not to know more about Spanish International centre forwards? why is it disrespectful to him to say he's got it wrong on rotation/delayed gazelle/styling but OK to completely disagree with him visa vis new transfer possibilities? Very odd.

In Rafa I trust-as long as he does things which I agree with

And I'm fickle

This is not an admissible post.

Aw feck off. What did you come back for anyway

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:08 am

mjlfc09 wrote:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol....568.ece
From The Times
July 22, 2009
Xabi Alonso closes in on Real Madrid move
James Ducker, Oliver Kay

Xabi Alonso will take a step closer to joining Real Madrid today by missing Liverpool's latest pre-season match with what has been described as a “minor injury”.

The Spain midfield player is determined to join Real, who had a £24 million bid rejected last week, and has ruled himself out of Liverpool's match against a Thailand XI in Bangkok later today while the stalemate over the prospective move continues. Liverpool want about £32million for him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is true then Alonso is a real dick head and can off to Real Madrid now for all I care.

Ill tell you what if that is true ill be really dissapointed in Xabi doing that, if thats the case why did he travel in the first place, An yet it should be the doc ruling him out not himself thats why im in two minds about the story tbh,

Put it this way if Xabi is not on the bench in a kit tomorrow id deffo think thats it, Because when Rafa got asked the other night about the squad he said the Spanish lads might play some minutes

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:10 am

In fairness to Alonso there is always the possibility he is actually properly injured.

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:19 am

bigmick wrote:In fairness to Alonso there is always the possibility he is actually properly injured.

I hope that is the case Mick, i mean hes been doing a lot of push ups lately might have pulled something :laugh:

No serious though surley if he has got a slight injury it would be the doc ruling him out an not himself, An so far nothing has come out from Rafa saying hes unable to take part,

As i said though if he is pulling as fast one ill be very dissapointed, in his attitude,
Remember a certain Owen left out of a European cup game , next thing he was in Spain

by **J*o*n*D*o*e** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:42 am

hold out Rafa la and take that whore of a club for every penny you can get, the tw@ts spend cash like its going out of fashion then all of sudden think they can go the other way and start fooking stealing players for buttons

just like Aston Villa did to us last summer, name the price and stick to it even it Alonso spits his dummy out, put him in the reserves and see how long it is before he comes around.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:23 am

NANNY RED wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Bammo wrote:Most Kuyt related comments occur in the match day threads...usually why isn't he subbed yet? followed by silence when he scores the last minute winner

has Alonso been put into a press conference in asia yet?

No...Rafa's keeping him bound and gagged in his hotel room closet.

No hes not Bob hes been putting on a private show for me. If only there was a Father Christmas

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/ERV537m9nN1WUNn7

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