Liverpool FC Forum

by **Waldo** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:35 am

The guy has only played 2 full games so you have to give him the benefit of the doubt but for me the game passed him by far too easily and, other than the 5-10 min cameo in the 2nd half when we had Villa pinned back and lots of room in MF, did he look like he wanted to dictate play, pick up the ball and make passes.

It's understandable that it will take time to settle into the team. Too many misplaced passes and flicks but he'll learn quickly I am sure.

by **bigmick** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:29 am

Sabre wrote:
akumaface wrote:
bigmick wrote:Not for me once again I'm afraid. To play the game as a floater which he appears to want to, you have to make telling contributions on the ball. If the team is to carry him (and he contributes nothing defensively whatsoever) then there must be a pay off. So far, not only isn't there any but aside from a pass to Benayoun in the previous game, there hasn't looked like being any. I appreciate people are saying "give him time and he'll settle/get fit" etc and he'll obviously improve I'm not doubting it, i'm just a little concerned that I can't see 20 million quids worth of footballer waiting to get out. So far he doesn't defend as well as Alonso, doesn't pass it as well as Alonso, and doesn't influence the game as much as Alonso.

It may be "too early", but is anyone absolutely confident he's going to turn out to be a good buy?

I totally agreed with your view. We had been watching football long enough to know if someone is special or not. Aqua is not one of them I'm afraid.

I disagree, I really like Aquilani, but I agree so far he hasn't provided enough football, let alone the injuries to say it was a well spent money.

But when I look at his football, at certain details, I trust his quality. He's real quality, not "good player" as in Robbie Keane, but real quality.

A different matter though is to answer bigmick's question about being "absolutely confident". You can't never be absolutely confident.

I don't know if the player will be happy here or he'll miss the fetuccini of the sua mamma, or I don't know if he'll too feel like Keane, who was the best player of his town and felt the right to be baffled and question the manager's methods. You never know on first glance whether the player will fight or not, or he'll be a loser like Keane.

But if you ask me about the football quality, I think he is especial yes. But it's nice to disagree.

P.S. I also disagree in the direct comparison with Alonso, totally different players. But Aquilani does more this that Alonso didn't and he was asked so desperately to do: moving through out the pitch and receive the ball in different positions, not being in the safety pocket. You asked for it, and you got it. And I think that with Mascherano, and without injuries, and with the right attitude (a lot of ifs I know), he'll be very good for Liverpool.

There is something there Sabes, I'm not about to dispute that Aquilani is a footballer. we're not talking Lucas here, he recieves and gives it not just to somplete a pass, he actually plays it to the side of the reciever, at an angle in relation to the defender and at a pace which gives the fella a chance.

A pass from a good player is a gift, like a waiter presenting a Michelin starred entre it arrives with a flourish, and the reciever is able to do with it what he wills. A pass from a Lucas (who once again i thought was bitterly disappointing against villa, I know I disagree with many) or a Kuyt is more akin to a Macdonalds happy meal which has been lobbed at you accross the road, with the drink still in the bag. It arrives at the wrong side, knocks you out of stride, causes you to check, to concentrate on the control too much as it arrives at the wrong speed.

No, Aquilani can play that much is obvious. Can he play in England though, can he fight for the right to embellish the game? Is he difficult enough to counter? I have grave doubts.

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:38 am

There is something there Sabes, I'm not about to dispute that Aquilani is a footballer. we're not talking Lucas here, he recieves and gives it not just to somplete a pass, he actually plays it to the side of the reciever, at an angle in relation to the defender and at a pace which gives the fella a chance.

A pass from a good player is a gift, like a waiter presenting a Michelin starred entre it arrives with a flourish, and the reciever is able to do with it what he wills. A pass from a Lucas (who once again i thought was bitterly disappointing against villa, I know I disagree with many) or a Kuyt is more akin to a Macdonalds happy meal which has been lobbed at you accross the road, with the drink still in the bag. It arrives at the wrong side, knocks you out of stride, causes you to check, to concentrate on the control too much as it arrives at the wrong speed.

Then we don't disagree much because I agree all this.

As for the prediction, I don't know, but you've seen more association football than me so I respect your doubts.

I have a blind faith in technical quality though, and that's why I'm "reasonably" confident. He ain't no Lucas, no.

by **only me** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:51 am

I also thought he had miserable game last night but with all fairness to the guy ,the pressure on him to deliver from day one plus entering a team which is in ill spirit and not performing can hurt almost any new player.

So still hope i say.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:17 pm

I need to see the Villa game again. I remember a fair few duff passes from him in the final third but the Torres goal seems to have eclipsed any sensible interpretation I could possibly make.

Against Wolves I thought he did OK. He made a couple of really good passes, the one to Benayoun inside the box, and the sort of reverse pass to Johnson (as an aside, there was that pass against Arsenal in case anyone forgets), while his movement is certainly more forward-thinking than Lucas and Masch. That's the kind of ability we're looking for, we just need to see more of it. Having said that, I don't remember a time when I really thought he should've made a more ambitious pass, or done something more creative (suggesting he wasn't 'obviously' lacking in that department - though it could just be my memory). The problem, for me - certainly in the first half (this is the Wolves game I'm on about) - was that our movement was too static. If you haven't got a reasonably accessible option open to you, it's generally not going to be worth the risk of conceding possession by playing an infinitely tricky ball-into-feet. You can only play as well as those around you permit you to, and he was hardly flooded with options that night (though I accept that within his own 'sphere' of influence, he could've managed a bit more, maybe a good shot on goal or something). It shouldn't be forgotton that Wolves were compact, well organised and defended well and that against such teams you can't just rely on quality 'appearing' somehow. No, together you have to work openings with clever movement and we were woefully lacking in that respect. Good movement can reduce the difficulty factor by a sizeable margin.

I definitely agree with those who've said he needs to get up to speed with the game here. He's getting pressed in a fraction of the time of a typical serie 'a' game. Those seconds or milliseconds can be the difference between taking an opponent out of the game - and an option opening up - and having to play a fairly routine or 'safe' ball out wide. There's both a physical and mental element to that, and both can be improved upon.

Just one more thing. He likes to be bold but I remember Mick made similar criticisms of Modric when he first arrived in England and he has since gone on to be one of Spurs' best players.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:40 pm

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:
akumaface wrote:
bigmick wrote:Not for me once again I'm afraid. To play the game as a floater which he appears to want to, you have to make telling contributions on the ball. If the team is to carry him (and he contributes nothing defensively whatsoever) then there must be a pay off. So far, not only isn't there any but aside from a pass to Benayoun in the previous game, there hasn't looked like being any. I appreciate people are saying "give him time and he'll settle/get fit" etc and he'll obviously improve I'm not doubting it, i'm just a little concerned that I can't see 20 million quids worth of footballer waiting to get out. So far he doesn't defend as well as Alonso, doesn't pass it as well as Alonso, and doesn't influence the game as much as Alonso.

It may be "too early", but is anyone absolutely confident he's going to turn out to be a good buy?

I totally agreed with your view. We had been watching football long enough to know if someone is special or not. Aqua is not one of them I'm afraid.

I disagree, I really like Aquilani, but I agree so far he hasn't provided enough football, let alone the injuries to say it was a well spent money.

But when I look at his football, at certain details, I trust his quality. He's real quality, not "good player" as in Robbie Keane, but real quality.

A different matter though is to answer bigmick's question about being "absolutely confident". You can't never be absolutely confident.

I don't know if the player will be happy here or he'll miss the fetuccini of the sua mamma, or I don't know if he'll too feel like Keane, who was the best player of his town and felt the right to be baffled and question the manager's methods. You never know on first glance whether the player will fight or not, or he'll be a loser like Keane.

But if you ask me about the football quality, I think he is especial yes. But it's nice to disagree.

P.S. I also disagree in the direct comparison with Alonso, totally different players. But Aquilani does more this that Alonso didn't and he was asked so desperately to do: moving through out the pitch and receive the ball in different positions, not being in the safety pocket. You asked for it, and you got it. And I think that with Mascherano, and without injuries, and with the right attitude (a lot of ifs I know), he'll be very good for Liverpool.

There is something there Sabes, I'm not about to dispute that Aquilani is a footballer. we're not talking Lucas here, he recieves and gives it not just to somplete a pass, he actually plays it to the side of the reciever, at an angle in relation to the defender and at a pace which gives the fella a chance.

A pass from a good player is a gift, like a waiter presenting a Michelin starred entre it arrives with a flourish, and the reciever is able to do with it what he wills. A pass from a Lucas (who once again i thought was bitterly disappointing against villa, I know I disagree with many) or a Kuyt is more akin to a Macdonalds happy meal which has been lobbed at you accross the road, with the drink still in the bag. It arrives at the wrong side, knocks you out of stride, causes you to check, to concentrate on the control too much as it arrives at the wrong speed.

No, Aquilani can play that much is obvious. Can he play in England though, can he fight for the right to embellish the game? Is he difficult enough to counter? I have grave doubts.

Remember what you were saying about Deco when he first came over, and then I believe you had a change of heart for a bit. (not sure if he is hurt now or what has been going on with him at Chelsea recently) But I think eventually the quality will shine through. It took Ronaldo a bit of getting used to before he was setting the league on fire. Not saying Aquilani could even do that, but there is a lot of room for him to look better, and he was freaking playing in snow against a both tough and good Villa side away, and he is freaking from Roma where they take winter breaks. I would be willing to guess that he played some cold ones in Torino or Milano before, but probably not a game at that sort of pace and that cold and snowy.

I am at least willing to wait until after his third league start to judge

by **Sabre** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:06 pm

I would be willing to guess that he played some cold ones in Torino or Milano before, but probably not a game at that sort of pace and that cold and snowy.

Spain. Football. Winter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD1c7kfRATM

We do know playing in mud, and after all the night snowing. The fact that you lot come to tan yourselves, doesn't mean there's no winter here!.

Aquilani has known that in Italy for sure, and he has probably played in Kiev and places like that!

But the important thing mate, is what you say about the quality. I agree that wholeheartedly.

by **OneHotRed** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:29 pm

As soon as he realises that he doesn have 20 seconds on the ball he will improve, he just needs to get up to speed, look how alonso was in his first few matches, harried and pressed and lost the ball a fair whack, as soon as he learned to do his little drag back he was loads better (and also got LOADS of opposition sent off for us

)

Im hoping Aqua is half the player Alonso was - because IMHO we should have never had to buy this waterboy.

by **roberto green** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:39 pm

I like the look of him to be honest, ok he is way off the pace at the mo but you can tell the lad has quality in abundance and I think if we give him 2-3 months he could well be a very good signing.

by **Avi Cohen** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:44 pm

Come on - he's only had two games after a lengthy lay off coupled with coming from, arguably, the slowest league in Europe to the quickest. It's going to take him a while to find his feet.

These days if new players don't score a 30 yard screamer with his first touch in his first game he's a failure.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:51 pm

bigmick wrote:
Sabre wrote:
akumaface wrote:
bigmick wrote:Not for me once again I'm afraid. To play the game as a floater which he appears to want to, you have to make telling contributions on the ball. If the team is to carry him (and he contributes nothing defensively whatsoever) then there must be a pay off. So far, not only isn't there any but aside from a pass to Benayoun in the previous game, there hasn't looked like being any. I appreciate people are saying "give him time and he'll settle/get fit" etc and he'll obviously improve I'm not doubting it, i'm just a little concerned that I can't see 20 million quids worth of footballer waiting to get out. So far he doesn't defend as well as Alonso, doesn't pass it as well as Alonso, and doesn't influence the game as much as Alonso.

It may be "too early", but is anyone absolutely confident he's going to turn out to be a good buy?

I totally agreed with your view. We had been watching football long enough to know if someone is special or not. Aqua is not one of them I'm afraid.

I disagree, I really like Aquilani, but I agree so far he hasn't provided enough football, let alone the injuries to say it was a well spent money.

But when I look at his football, at certain details, I trust his quality. He's real quality, not "good player" as in Robbie Keane, but real quality.

A different matter though is to answer bigmick's question about being "absolutely confident". You can't never be absolutely confident.

I don't know if the player will be happy here or he'll miss the fetuccini of the sua mamma, or I don't know if he'll too feel like Keane, who was the best player of his town and felt the right to be baffled and question the manager's methods. You never know on first glance whether the player will fight or not, or he'll be a loser like Keane.

But if you ask me about the football quality, I think he is especial yes. But it's nice to disagree.

P.S. I also disagree in the direct comparison with Alonso, totally different players. But Aquilani does more this that Alonso didn't and he was asked so desperately to do: moving through out the pitch and receive the ball in different positions, not being in the safety pocket. You asked for it, and you got it. And I think that with Mascherano, and without injuries, and with the right attitude (a lot of ifs I know), he'll be very good for Liverpool.

There is something there Sabes, I'm not about to dispute that Aquilani is a footballer. we're not talking Lucas here, he recieves and gives it not just to somplete a pass, he actually plays it to the side of the reciever, at an angle in relation to the defender and at a pace which gives the fella a chance.

A pass from a good player is a gift, like a waiter presenting a Michelin starred entre it arrives with a flourish, and the reciever is able to do with it what he wills. A pass from a Lucas (who once again i thought was bitterly disappointing against villa, I know I disagree with many) or a Kuyt is more akin to a Macdonalds happy meal which has been lobbed at you accross the road, with the drink still in the bag. It arrives at the wrong side, knocks you out of stride, causes you to check, to concentrate on the control too much as it arrives at the wrong speed.

No, Aquilani can play that much is obvious. Can he play in England though, can he fight for the right to embellish the game? Is he difficult enough to counter? I have grave doubts.

Lucas is not in the side to spray Hollywood passes all over the pitch. His job is to break down play and to supply the full-backs, which he does a fine job of.

Aquilani on the otherhand is a different breed to Lucas. Once he settles into the pattern of the team, he'll be a cracking player for us.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Avi Cohen wrote:Come on - he's only had two games after a lengthy lay off coupled with coming from, arguably, the slowest league in Europe to the quickest. It's going to take him a while to find his feet.

These days if new players don't score a 30 yard screamer with his first touch in his first game he's a failure.

Exactly. Lucas still gets sh*t off our support, but as I've said, unless he hits a screamer a'la Gerrard into the top corner, he'll never be accepted by some. Funny thing is, Lucas has arguably been one of our players of the season so far and I've no shame in saying it nor will I make any apology for it either.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:58 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I need to see the Villa game again. I remember a fair few duff passes from him in the final third but the Torres goal seems to have eclipsed any sensible interpretation I could possibly make.

Against Wolves I thought he did OK. He made a couple of really good passes, the one to Benayoun inside the box, and the sort of reverse pass to Johnson (as an aside, there was that pass against Arsenal in case anyone forgets), while his movement is certainly more forward-thinking than Lucas and Masch. That's the kind of ability we're looking for, we just need to see more of it. Having said that, I don't remember a time when I really thought he should've made a more ambitious pass, or done something more creative (suggesting he wasn't 'obviously' lacking in that department - though it could just be my memory). The problem, for me - certainly in the first half (this is the Wolves game I'm on about) - was that our movement was too static. If you haven't got a reasonably accessible option open to you, it's generally not going to be worth the risk of conceding possession by playing an infinitely tricky ball-into-feet. You can only play as well as those around you permit you to, and he was hardly flooded with options that night (though I accept that within his own 'sphere' of influence, he could've managed a bit more, maybe a good shot on goal or something). It shouldn't be forgotton that Wolves were compact, well organised and defended well and that against such teams you can't just rely on quality 'appearing' somehow. No, together you have to work openings with clever movement and we were woefully lacking in that respect. Good movement can reduce the difficulty factor by a sizeable margin.

I definitely agree with those who've said he needs to get up to speed with the game here. He's getting pressed in a fraction of the time of a typical serie 'a' game. Those seconds or milliseconds can be the difference between taking an opponent out of the game - and an option opening up - and having to play a fairly routine or 'safe' ball out wide. There's both a physical and mental element to that, and both can be improved upon.

Just one more thing. He likes to be bold but I remember Mick made similar criticisms of Modric when he first arrived in England and he has since gone on to be one of Spurs' best players.

Great post.
I am going to take the liberty of using just some of your post as it is confirms what I have been thinking:

"Against Wolves I thought he did OK. He made a couple of really good passes, the one to Benayoun inside the box, and the sort of reverse pass to Johnson, while his movement is certainly more forward-thinking than Lucas and Masch. That's the kind of ability we're looking for, we just need to see more of it."

FORWARD THINKING- Ok he is not up to speed. But who the hell thinks he should be after being injured for so long and then being thrown in at the deep end?? He looks forward and ties to put us on the offensive, which is a hell of a lot more than many in the team at the moment

"Having said that, I don't remember a time when I really thought he should've made a more ambitious pass, or done something more creative. The problem, for me - certainly in the first half (this is the Wolves game I'm on about) - was that our movement was too static. If you haven't got a reasonably accessible option open to you, it's generally not going to be worth the risk of conceding possession by playing an infinitely tricky ball-into-feet."

OUR MOVEMENT WAS TOO STATIC- Under our current system with our current players it is sometimes like watching people run through treacle. Sluggish, no fluidity, dragging and laboured. Especially if Johnson and Insua are not overlapping and Kuyt and Lucas are breaking down our attacking play. Aquilani can address this if the team adapts to his style rather than him (god forbid) adapting to theirs.

"You can only play as well as those around you permit you to, and he was hardly flooded with options that night...together you have to work openings with clever movement and we were woefully lacking in that respect. Good movement can reduce the difficulty factor by a sizeable margin. ."

YOU CAN ONLY PLAY AS WELL AS THOSE AROUND YOU PERMIT YOU TO- Is he worth £20 million? Who knows? He has been introduced at a time when we are struggling badly for form and has had to hit the ground sprinting, never mind running. Nobody has been outstanding and it comes to something when Lucas has been our most consistent player. He is not superman and will not change the fortunes of an ailing team overnight. I say give him a chance and encourage those around him to use his creativity to drag us up the table. He is finding his feet and the pressure is on him to be the saviour rather than a rookie who has time to make fu'ck ups like others have. I believe he is like a breath of fresh air and, if he is utilised properly could be the creative spark we have been missing all season.

by **woof woof !** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:02 pm

Mentioned this in the Lucas thread, I should've of course put it here.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

Not wanting to knock the fella, it is after all very early days, but if he's going to be our "new creative force"
he's gonna have to look further than playing every ball to his captain.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:15 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Mentioned this in the Lucas thread, I should've of course put it here.

Aqualani. Very early days BUT (:D ), someones gotta tell the fella that there are others in the team apart from Gerrard. Seemed to me (I might be wrong) that he constantly looked to feed Gerrard even when Stevie had 2-3 men on him, meanwhile there were others just begging for the easy ball.

Not wanting to knock the fella, it is after all very early days, but if he's going to be our "new creative force"
he's gonna have to look further than playing every ball to his captain.

I noticed that :;):

I agree. But how can you ignore the best midfielder in Europe when he demands the ball constantly.
Someone should teach Albert how to say " :censored:

off" in English.
I think its "Va fan culo" in Italian...

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