Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:28 pm

Can we win the league - Yes - still mathmatically possible

Will we win the league - there is always a chance if slim

Realistically - well chelsea loose a number of players during jan - mancs have some injury probs so i will still believe but it is mission very impossible

by **Waldo** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:24 pm

I am ever the optimist but also a realist. I think we have fooked it this season.

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:14 pm

Can we still win the league? Are we talking ever or this season?

If it's this season the answer is obviously no. Even getting into the top four from where we are and considering how we're playing will need a bit of a turnaround and will be a good effort.

As for "ever", I think currently we still can yes. Another couple of years of the type of mismanagement we are currently seeing though, both from the owners and from Rafa and the answer will be no I'm afraid unless we get an Abhamovic style takeover. I do think the situation is still rescuable, we still have probably three more seasons of Gerrard at somehwere near his peak and Torres isn't getting p!ssed off yet, but a year or two not making the top four and not winning trophies still could see us become a team who's absolute ambition each season is to get into the Champions League. We are IMHO on the cusp of a fall long term unless something is done fairly quickly. The "learn your history" "we back our manager through thick and thin" brigade tell others to be careful or they might get what they wish for, and the reality is unless someone sees sense before too much longer we'll all go down without a lifeboat.

Pretty negative stuff I know but I really do think we're in deep trouble, watching our matches and seeing the way the players are going about it right now doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever, we are in a dark place indeed.

by **Penguins** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 pm

Mostly agree with your post. I was thinking about coming up with an analogy but changed my mind

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 pm

Its quite sad isn't it, when I started looking at past tables I was hoping to prove even though we have started this season really badly, that there where enough available points till the end of the season to make it, with some change of mentality, that we could put a run together and do an "Istanbul" for the greatest recovery ever.

I think everyone agrees this is just not going to happen. What is worse is that it looks like quite a battle to even make 4th.

Whenyou look at the evidence, does this not say, even to the "pro rafas" that enough is enough. This must be the worse position we have been in before Xmas in quite a few years. Every fan has given in to any sort of succes this year. Our aim now is a good Fa cup run, a good Europa run (although some people don't want this) and reaching the dizzy heights of 4th place.

by **Penguins** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:39 pm

What everyone forget is where we were when Rafa came. CL qualification was a luxury at best and we were poor the few times we participated. Rafa once again made us a name in the world football and gained many new supporters around the world.

I would say the success we have had with Rafa has made us spoiled, demanding more and more. And besides the fact that Rafa was hired(which was a good thing imo) not many rights have been made organisationally within the club since he came(or the past 20 years for that matter).
Parry has always been his incompetent self. Moores was quite incompetent and have been replaced by 2 even more incompetent owners.

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Whenyou look at the evidence, does this not say, even to the "pro rafas" that enough is enough.

Unfortunately mate human nature dictates that people are loath to admit the game is up and the fact that they are wrong. This is particularly the case for the more vehement defenders of the faith, the ones who openly abused and poured scorn on detractors.

If you simply thought Rafa was eventually going to do the business, it's not so much of a leap of faith to say "You know what, I'm not sure he is anymore". On the other hand if you believed he was going to do the business and you called anyone who didn't agree either a c..., not a real fan, a w@nker etc etc etc etc etc etc etc it's not quite so easy to do the "you know what" conversion.

I simply cannot believe though that even the most ardent of pro's are not having the gravest of doubts right now. There are no credible excuses and we look a shell of a football team (cue the "but we are a shell of a team with the injuries"). Denying the obvious at this stage is akin to me saying Rafa was a sh!t manager after we'd just won the league by ten points. People will cling on though I've no doubt. Contrary to what they spout on here, it doesn't make them a better fan though, it just shows they are afraid of admitting they made a mistake. Shame really but there it is.

I've been told many times on here that it doesn't matter who is wrong or right it's just the team that counts, and that is absolutely on the money. I personally couldn't give a feck who is right or wrong, I just want to win some football matches and challenge for trophies. I couldn't even give a feck if we do it with Rafa as manager, I'd chomp on the old humble pie all day long and wouldn't give a feck. The simple and unfortunate fact of the matter is though that it becomes more distant a prospect with the passing of each day.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:54 pm

The premise of this thread wouldn't be at all out of place in a stand up act. Can we win the league? *laughter in the crowd*

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:55 pm

bigmick wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Whenyou look at the evidence, does this not say, even to the "pro rafas" that enough is enough.

Unfortunately mate human nature dictates that people are loath to admit the game is up and the fact that they are wrong. This is particularly the case for the more vehement defenders of the faith, the ones who openly abused and poured scorn on detractors.

If you simply thought Rafa was eventually going to do the business, it's not so much of a leap of faith to say "You know what, I'm not sure he is anymore". On the other hand if you believed he was going to do the business and you called anyone who didn't agree either a c..., not a real fan, a w@nker etc etc etc etc etc etc etc it's not quite so easy to do the "you know what" conversion.

I simply cannot believe though that even the most ardent of pro's are not having the gravest of doubts right now. There are no credible excuses and we look a shell of a football team (cue the "but we are a shell of a team with the injuries"). Denying the obvious at this stage is akin to me saying Rafa was a sh!t manager after we'd just won the league by ten points. People will cling on though I've no doubt. Contrary to what they spout on here, it doesn't make them a better fan though, it just shows they are afraid of admitting they made a mistake. Shame really but there it is.

I've been told many times on here that it doesn't matter who is wrong or right it's just the team that counts, and that is absolutely on the money. I personally couldn't give a feck who is right or wrong, I just want to win some football matches and challenge for trophies. I couldn't even give a feck if we do it with Rafa as manager, I'd chomp on the old humble pie all day long and wouldn't give a feck. The simple and unfortunate fact of the matter is though that it becomes more distant a prospect with the passing of each day.

You say people are loathe to admit they are wrong then go on to say it doesnt matter who is right or wrong

by **bigmick** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:02 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:You say people are loathe to admit they are wrong then go on to say it doesnt matter who is right or wrong

Exactly, I'm saying to those who won't admit they're wrong just look at it objectively and sensibly. It matters not a jot who is right or wrong at the end of the day, if you are a 'real fan" surely you want what's best for the club? Surely that is more important than proving yourself to be correct.

Anybody who watches our matches at the moment can see we have huge problems, much of which the manager is responsible for. Now for sure he is entitled to and is currently being given every opportunity to turn it around, but ultimately if he can't and doesn't, he has to go fairly soon. Frankly whether or not that proves me right or wrong I couldn't give a feck. Denying the glaringly obvious though indicates to me someone who is more concerned with their own credibility than they are the welfare of the club.

Now I don't think he can/will turn it around anytime soon. If he does, I'll be the very first to admit I was wrong. I hope he does. I hope he builds on it and wins the Premiership three years running. I hope I have to put up with being reminded of the fact i said he wasn't capable of it every single day.

That's the point, I don't give a feck about being wrong. Unfortunately though, given the evidence before our eyes, it doesn't look like I have been on this occasion.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:14 pm

ere as some think the responsibilty lays with both the players and managers in equal measure

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:26 pm

bigmick wrote:I simply cannot believe though that even the most ardent of pro's are not having the gravest of doubts right now. There are no credible excuses and we look a shell of a football team (cue the "but we are a shell of a team with the injuries"). Denying the obvious at this stage is akin to me saying Rafa was a sh!t manager after we'd just won the league by ten points. People will cling on though I've no doubt. Contrary to what they spout on here, it doesn't make them a better fan though, it just shows they are afraid of admitting they made a mistake. Shame really but there it is.

It doesn't make you any less perceptive if you cant see the bigger picture,so don't do yourself an injustice Michael not everyone can envisage that sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war , I think Rafa is banking on the foresight of those ardent fans you mentioned so thoughtfully ,to see him through were it matters most and not the fans who have their top three teams to choose an allegiance from (sorry couldn't help the dig wasn't aimed at any one specific ) but its a fact none of the lads I knock around with actually want Rafa out ,albeit from a few Bluenoses I grew up with

but the general consensus around Liverpool is its the owners that should leave our shores ..... and it too bewilders me Michael why certain posters fail to grasp the importance of our stance

so the disbelieving part is something we both agree on ,albeit standing on opposite sides of the fence

by **killerp** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:28 am

...erm no.

Unless you could organise a swine flu attack on the pack leaders at the moment.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:35 am

Points in the league:
04/05: Overall-58p, home-40p, away-18p
05/06: Overall-82p, home-48p, away-34p
06/07: Overall-68p, home-46p, away-22p
07/08: Overall-76p, home-42p, away-34p
08/09: Overall-86p, home-43p, away-43p
-------------------------------------------
09/10: Overall-24p, home-14p, away-10p

Goals in the league:
04/05: scored-52, conceded-41
05/06: scored-57, conceded-25
06/07: scored-57, conceded-27
07/08: scored-67, conceded-28
08/09: scored-77, conceded-27
--------------------------------------------------------
09/10: scored-31, conceded-20

Goals from set pieces:
04/05: for-17, against-13
05/06: for-18, against-7
06/07: for-18, against-6
07/08: for-14, against-18
08/09: for-19, against-10
--------------------------
09/10: for-7, against-12

Goals from open play:
04/05: for-35, against-28
05/06: for-39, against-17
06/07: for-39, against-21
07/08: for-53, against-10
08/09: for-58, against-17
--------------------------
09/10: for-22, against-8

Some interesting (for some anyway) stats ripped from TLW.

by **GOAT** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:03 am

I don't want to worry you but Man utd won the league on my footy manager season.

It makes me sick just to look at the fantasy 19 - 18

Come on Chelsea don't f.uck it up now

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