Liverpool FC Forum

by **killerp** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:39 am

Rafa has a talent for misusing players that he signs. How many :censored:

players will he sign before he gets it right? right now it look likes Liverpool is the only club out of the top clubs in Europe that is raiding rubbish tips looking golden nuggets but all they find is rejects & players that warm the bench quite comfortably.

Learn from the competition, buy players that will fit your system.

by **skatesy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:53 am

Where is SSN saying that Torres has a hernia?

by **Owzat** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:52 am

Rafa's quoting of YNWA is quite clearly desperation to keep fans on board, a transparent move on his part and almost definitely preplanned.

As for Torres, well Rafa is full of it with his comments about taking him off. On Saturday we were drawing and Rafa excused taking Torres off after 63 minutes because he doesn't want to lose him for weeks or months. Then on Wednesday when it's 0-0 and we need a goal to stay in the Champions League Torres stays on until someone scores and it looks like we're going to win and then, surprise surprise, off trots Torres in the 87th minute - a full 24 mins longer on the pitch than on Saturday when Rafa didn't want to risk a long term injury.

Truth is the Lyon game was more important to Rafa('s survival) and he couldn't risk taking off Torres while we weren't winning. As it happens Lyon equalised, but it is quite clear Rafa is deliberately avoiding the truth.

As for the tactic of playing unfit Torres, he's played three in the last six games, 234 mins and scored twice. Rafa's tactic is to hope he can get a goal or two out of Torres and take him off, somehow trying to cling on to any lead gained. What I said about N'Gog not being certain of starts despite scoring was not without grounds, he scored twice in his last two appearances and has played about four mins in the last two Liverpool games. I don't know if he was injured or sick on Saturday, but he played last night and despite being in form didn't start. Voronin on the other hand has played 249 mins in the last 270 and still not scored this season. Before that you could excuse his lack of goals from just 137 mins football, but I think he could play 1370000 mins before he scores the way he played last night

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:57 pm

the media does my f#cking head in. all they've bleated on about is the decision to take torres off being negative and too cautious blah blah blah.

the substitution had absolutely sod all to do with a daft defensive mistake that led to their equaliser.

by **Fauxy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:22 pm

Yep I agree, the media are just turning everything against Rafa. We had only 3 minutes of the game to play after he went off. I mean the chances of him scoring were only a little higher than the chances of him getting injured...

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:09 pm

Fauxy wrote:This hernia thing, weather true or not might be a nice wake up call for rafa to urgently get a good backup striker.

I think he is a brilliant manager but he makes small mistakes that lead to big ones. I think spending 17.5Million on Johnson was a mistake because although I think he is a very good player and is a better rb than Arbeloa, we had right back covered for the time being. We needed a backup striker more and we still do now.

So you only think it's a small mistake that we only have one striker in the squad, you see that is where you and I have a difference of opinion

by **Fauxy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:20 pm

heimdall wrote:
Fauxy wrote:This hernia thing, weather true or not might be a nice wake up call for rafa to urgently get a good backup striker.

I think he is a brilliant manager but he makes small mistakes that lead to big ones. I think spending 17.5Million on Johnson was a mistake because although I think he is a very good player and is a better rb than Arbeloa, we had right back covered for the time being. We needed a backup striker more and we still do now.

So you only think it's a small mistake that we only have one striker in the squad, you see that is where you and I have a difference of opinion

I said small mistakes that lead to big ones... the small mistake was getting rid of the Strikers we could use now, this turned into a big mistake when he didnt buy a worthy replacement. Instead he bought a right back.

So I dont think there is much of a difference of opinion because it was a big mistake that Rafa didnt buy a replacement. I never said that was a small mistake

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:21 pm

Fauxy wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Fauxy wrote:This hernia thing, weather true or not might be a nice wake up call for rafa to urgently get a good backup striker.

I think he is a brilliant manager but he makes small mistakes that lead to big ones. I think spending 17.5Million on Johnson was a mistake because although I think he is a very good player and is a better rb than Arbeloa, we had right back covered for the time being. We needed a backup striker more and we still do now.

So you only think it's a small mistake that we only have one striker in the squad, you see that is where you and I have a difference of opinion

I said small mistakes that lead to big ones... the small mistake was getting rid of the Strikers we could use now, this turned into a big mistake when he didnt buy a worthy replacement. Instead he bought a right back.

So I dont think there is much of a difference of opinion because it was a big mistake that Rafa didnt buy a replacement. I never said that was a small mistake

OK cool, we agree on something. :buttrock

by **Owzat** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:33 pm

I wouldn't lose any sleep over not agreeing with heimdall :laugh:

The problem is getting this "back-up striker" who is good enough to cover Torres, but not so good he wants to start alongside him or instead of him. Maybe we're simply too focused on getting Premiership experienced players and should be looking at younger talented players who are more likely to be happy on the bench. That said, perhaps Rafa could keep tabs on citeh, they are bound to have a load of players wanting games and not getting them. When Sturridge was up for grabs, Chelsea snapped him up while we were poncing about over our 'big signings'. We let Owen go to the mancs and now hate him for it, that was something that could have been avoided had we made a move - I'm sure he'd have preferred to play for us. Of course our line of English kids coming through the ranks is all but dry, strikers ended what with Mellor? While I may have questioned the sense in Houllier buying young players like FSP and ALT when he did, I wonder if letting FSP go wasn't a mistake. We made too many wholesale changes in key areas, no gradual switches so we end up in a position of having strikers not good enough or inexperienced.

And what happens when top strikers are available? We didn't get Bent or Defoe when up for grabs, instead we paid over the odds for Keane and sent him back looking for a money back guarantee :laugh:

Did we make moves on Owen, Arshavin or Sturridge? Or for that matter did we investigate the possibility of signing Anelka when he was up for sale and Chelsea paid all of £15m for him? ALL of the players I've mentioned in this paragraph cost LESS than Keane, except Keane obviously, but how many aren't better?!?! (Sturridge?) Rafa looks as much like being mugged for players as citeh and spudz. I think it speaks volumes that when Rafa wanted Barry the price was reported as £18m, 12 months later Citeh sign him for £12m despite having more money than sense.

N'Gog may well work out as a decent buy, you can't really go wrong at £1.5m. But do we need a decent buy on the bench or someone who is going to make it hard to leave him out and at worst make us a profit. If we sold N'Gog we might get maybe £4m, principly because top clubs who could afford more wouldn't want him.

by **heimdall** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:38 pm

Owzat wrote:I wouldn't lose any sleep over not agreeing with heimdall

The problem is getting this "back-up striker" who is good enough to cover Torres, but not so good he wants to start alongside him or instead of him. Maybe we're simply too focused on getting Premiership experienced players and should be looking at younger talented players who are more likely to be happy on the bench. That said, perhaps Rafa could keep tabs on citeh, they are bound to have a load of players wanting games and not getting them. When Sturridge was up for grabs, Chelsea snapped him up while we were poncing about over our 'big signings'. We let Owen go to the mancs and now hate him for it, that was something that could have been avoided had we made a move - I'm sure he'd have preferred to play for us. Of course our line of English kids coming through the ranks is all but dry, strikers ended what with Mellor? While I may have questioned the sense in Houllier buying young players like FSP and ALT when he did, I wonder if letting FSP go wasn't a mistake. We made too many wholesale changes in key areas, no gradual switches so we end up in a position of having strikers not good enough or inexperienced.

And what happens when top strikers are available? We didn't get Bent or Defoe when up for grabs, instead we paid over the odds for Keane and sent him back looking for a money back guarantee Did we make moves on Owen, Arshavin or Sturridge? Or for that matter did we investigate the possibility of signing Anelka when he was up for sale and Chelsea paid all of £15m for him? ALL of the players I've mentioned in this paragraph cost LESS than Keane, except Keane obviously, but how many aren't better?!?! (Sturridge?) Rafa looks as much like being mugged for players as citeh and spudz. I think it speaks volumes that when Rafa wanted Barry the price was reported as £18m, 12 months later Citeh sign him for £12m despite having more money than sense.

N'Gog may well work out as a decent buy, you can't really go wrong at £1.5m. But do we need a decent buy on the bench or someone who is going to make it hard to leave him out and at worst make us a profit. If we sold N'Gog we might get maybe £4m, principly because top clubs who could afford more wouldn't want him.

Well I agree with you most of the time statto, doesn't stop you having a dig at me. Funny how no one ever wants to be associated with me.

Anyway I don't understand this notion that we can't get another good striker becuase they would only sit on the bench and would not be happy with that. It kind of makes me wonder how every other top flight club manages to have 3-4 top strikers without too many problems.

by **Fauxy** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:47 pm

Well most other teams play two up front and the teams that do play one up front dont have many problems with strikers because they have versatile strikers.

For example Chelsea have Drogba and Anelka. Drogba is the first choice natural centre forward whereas Anelka is 2nd choice but can do a great job on the wings as well as being a lone striker. Same with Barca, their 1st choice centre forward is Ibrahimovic, their backup is Henry who can play on the left.

What I think would be ideal for us would be a striker that can play on the left wing just as good as centre forward. Maybe someone like Lavezzi or Mata.

by **jono** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:27 pm

Granada reports just said hes been over to Valencia see about an op

by **fivecups** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:34 am

More joy, from the Mirror:

Liverpool have been dealt another devastating blow, after Fernando Torres was ordered to take a complete break for at least three weeks.

And now the Anfield club must decide whether to address the striker’s frustrating, continuing injury problems by cutting their losses and sending him for surgery - which would rule him out for at least a month and possibly three.

Torres flew to Valencia on Thursday to consult with the top sports injury specialist in Spain, Dr Ramon Cugat, who has advised him on recent problems he has suffered with hamstring injuries.

And after consulting scans, Cugat has confirmed the diagnosis that Torres is suffering from a condition called athletic pubalgia, which is sometimes referred to as a 'sportsman’s hernia', but is in fact not a hernia at all.

It is a painful condition where the pubic bone becomes inflamed, because of the weakening of the muscles in the lower abdominal wall, which can also cause a tear in the area where the muscle meets the bone of the pelvis.

Cugat has recommended the player must follow a conservative treatment plan which involves complete rest from training, backed by complementary work which would help strengthen the abdominal area.

If the Anfield medical staff decide he will take the break immediately, then Torres will miss Monday night’s Premier League clash against Birmingham, and then Spain’s two upcoming friendly matches against Argentina and Austria.

He would also most likely miss the two matches following the international break, which are against Manchester City on November 21, and Debreceni in the Champions League three days later, leaving him to battle to be fit for the Merseyside derby with Everton on November 29.

But there is NO guarantee the rest cure will actually work, and if it doesn’t then Torres will be forced to undergo surgery, which leaves the Liverpool medical team with a real dilemma.

Conventional surgery requires an invasive operation which would result in a three-month recuperation period, devastating the striker’s season. But hi-tech laparoscopic surgery can sometimes be used in this procedure, which seriously reduces the recovery time.

If the damage in the pubic region is not too serious, then Torres could even be back in light, aerobic training after just a fortnight, and able to perform a full contact session after just a month.

Given that he may well be out for almost a month just resting, Liverpool’s medical staff will now give serious thought to the idea that they may as well go immediately to the option of surgery, to avoid the risk of the rest cure being unsuccessful.

Torres though, does not want an operation, and was hoping to continue playing until the diagnosis from Dr Cugat, who he trusts implicitly, suggested that he must stop completely.

He was due to captain Spain in their game against Argentina next week, which will be played at the Vicente Calderon Stadium, the home of his former club Atletico Madrid, and the place he considers home, so it is a huge blow for him to miss out.

There is still an outside chance he could play against Birmingham on Monday and then take the break he requires, but Liverpool will consider that such a plan could risk further damage, and it is more likely his rehabilitation programme will begin immediately.

Experts suggest that the conservative treatment plan, avoiding surgery, is often successful, and if that does work, then it will provide the swiftest opportunity for Torres to play again. But the fear around Anfield is that they could lose their striker - under the worst case scenario - until well into the new year.

The news comes as a bitter blow, not just to the struggling Anfield club, but to Torres himself, because the forward was desperate to play through the pain barrier, to help both club and country.

He suffered the injury, originally, on international duty with Spain a month ago, and was out for a fortnight before returning to score the crucial goal to provide a massive victory over Manchester United, despite being only 80 per cent fit.

Liverpool believed that with the correct training programme they could reduce the impact of the injury and steer the player towards fitness, but the diagnosis in Spain means the only decision they now face is when treatment begins, and whether that will include surgery.

With Steven Gerrard also still unsure whether he will require surgery on the groin problem he has been carrying for the past month, it is a grim time for the Merseyside club, but at least the Anfield skipper has done some light training in the past few days, and could still be cleared to play against Birmingham.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:43 pm

Let him have a three week break , one of them weeks is international week , anyway

by **Bammo** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:52 pm

So he doesn't have a hernia then :laugh:

Nice to see the media were reporting the truth and not just throwing sensational headlines cause a stir :;):

I say rest him for 3 weeks. The only game in that period we'd (in theory!) really need him is Man City.

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