Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:46 pm

I have no idea what happened three years ago mick so cant comment on what people were saying to you but to me it doesnt seem you were being negative -

As for the team three years - I dont think it was good enough to win the league - think we were missing a world class striker and squad was a bit think at that time - yes we had our best finish in a long time then but we were still a long way off chelsea and we were still beaten into second place by a poor manc side known in recent years .

Yeah last year we prob should of won the league but we know that those poor results (draws ) against the likes of wigan,stoke etc cost us - that is down to both players and managers .

The chelsea game while being a crucial game at this stage of the season wont mean our title challenge is gone what ever the result - yes it would make it harder that is for sure but i can see this season being even more closer than previous years and us being in the mix right up to the end .

Pre season is a strange one as i normally dont take that much interest but i do believe the last pre season game should contain our starting 11 - one thing that was different this year was we normally played a competative game before the prem started ie a cl qualifier and we normally struggled in that - it may not mean much but it might explain something - who knows .

So far this season the games we struggled to get draws against last season we have managed to get wins - to me thats a step forward - the real test will be against Chelsea as you say .

I wont be conceeding any title until its mathmatically impossible for us to win .

In terms of success - yes it is a bit disappointing we havent won a trophy but i know this may seem strange i would take getting closer to the title each year over winning a cc or fa cup .

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:56 pm

GYBS wrote:As for the team three years - I dont think it was good enough to win the league - think we were missing a world class striker and squad was a bit think at that time - yes we had our best finish in a long time then but we were still a long way off chelsea and we were still beaten into second place by a poor manc side known in recent years .

Yeah last year we prob should of won the league but we know that those poor results (draws ) against the likes of wigan,stoke etc cost us - that is down to both players and managers .

The chelsea game while being a crucial game at this stage of the season wont mean our title challenge is gone what ever the result - yes it would make it harder that is for sure but i can see this season being even more closer than previous years and us being in the mix right up to the end .

Pre season is a strange one as i normally dont take that much interest but i do believe the last pre season game should contain our starting 11 - one thing that was different this year was we normally played a competative game before the prem started ie a cl qualifier and we normally struggled in that - it may not mean much but it might explain something - who knows .

So far this season the games we struggled to get draws against last season we have managed to get wins - to me thats a step forward - the real test will be against Chelsea as you say .

I wont be conceeding any title until its mathmatically impossible for us to win .

In terms of success - yes it is a bit disappointing we havent won a trophy but i know this may seem strange i would take getting closer to the title each year over winning a cc or fa cup .

Whether or not the team of three seasons ago was good enough to win the title is a moot point, I actually claimed it was good enough to "challenge" which isn't the same thing.

As for "not conceding the title before it's mathematically impossible" mate, thats great and fair play to you. I guess the fans at Bolton have one or two inteir number who say every season, "we're going to win the league this year" but of course, they're not.

Clearly if we lose at Chelsea, we aren't out of it to the extent that our challenge is equal to that of Bolton, but we are certainly huge outisders if it happens. How huge?, 25/1 would be about right I reckon. Lose at Man Utd and you can "not give it up just yet" all you like, we are fighting for a Champions League spot at that point.

I've said a couple of times, if you get six points or more behind BOTH the Mancs and Chelsea, you are dead in the water.

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:01 pm

I guess the difference between our fans and boltons fans is we know we have a squad good enough to win the title .

As for the loosing against the mancs and chelsea last season man utd lost to us twice as well as a few other teams yet still managed to win - maybe that was down to experience which is something we gained last season and hopefully have learnt from so while loosing against chelsea will be bad we have the ability to go on a run unbeaten of ten plus games with all of them wins .

I guess i just have belief in the squad the players and the manager .

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:08 am

Am actually with big mick here and thats not just to be funny.

I have said the same thing about preseason for years.
Treat every game better.
I genuinley think that againts spurs the key players where not fit. And if you think they were watch it again.
Bavlondon also said after the villa defeat that he thought torres was tired. I disagreed at the time thinking he was actually not tired but not fit.
I still think that.
Its amazing how an 'unfit' torres was world class last weekend.
I said he hadnt been prepared for preseason in his best interests and i think the sameabout Gerrard.

i will be right end of season i am sure, but lets se if torres and gerrard were burnt out or as i feel not fit (too much protection)

by **Sabre** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:48 am

The thing I really don't get is that Crouch in the left is put as an example of Rafa's normal rotation. It was an oddity, a strange decission, a mistake, bonkers if you will? ok. My point was not to deny that. My point is that oddity COULD NOT be taken as a normal example of Rafa's rotation policy.

In fact, nobody seems to deny Rafa rotated less last season and this one, yet, last season we ALSO HAD strange decissions like the Skrtel one in the RB, or decissions that look strange without looking the context, like Aurelio in the midfield. No one denied that rotation was more moderate last season, and to say this, the Skrtel and Aurelio cases were not put as an example (except a few times that a caricature was done).

So I really don't understand that when you analyse 300 games of Rafa and rotation the strange cases, that can be counted with the fingers of one hand are taken as the games that define the policy. It seems that more than a fair analysis it's wanted to be done a caricature of Rafa's methods, somehow exagerating the strange decissions of Rafa.

by **bigmick** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:09 am

Sabes you're getting the two "R"'s mixed up, probably because i didn't explain myself very well. There is the original "R" word which was of course rotation. We did it "Rafa style", which meant that in the first couple of games of the season we were making six and seven changes to the team, before wondering why we couldn't get anything going.

The second "R" word is ridiculousness, in terms of selection. Sometimes that is of the "that's a very strange decision" veriety (Gerrard on the left wing while Bolo Zenden plays central midfield), and other times it's straight out of the bonkers basket (Peter Crouch on the left wing). Obviously the bonkers basket only comes into play occasionally, otherwise Rafa would have been carted off by the men in white coats long ago.

by **DrPepe** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:43 am

bonkers: skrtl, crouch
non-bonkers: aurelio

let's face it , when you win it ain't bonkers

by **babu** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:49 am

i love the fat b@stard

by **DrPepe** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:09 am

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:36 am

GYBS wrote:Maybe i remember the good things about this club mick -thats what i like to concentrate on but thats just me - im a positive person in regards the team i support and always will be .

Totally unrelated to this thread, but purely because it took me half an hour to scroll down the page...

Why the f**k do you include this team photo at the end of your posts ? It's repeated EVERY single time you post. It's a bit repetitive isn't it ?

And by the way, it's not just you - It's anybody who has a massive image included in the footer, esp. yer man who has the fotie of some bird from a lads mag....Do you think we want to see it after EVERY post ? Do you not find it dull yourself ?

Rant over,
Bungle

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:48 am

bunglemark2 wrote:
GYBS wrote:Maybe i remember the good things about this club mick -thats what i like to concentrate on but thats just me - im a positive person in regards the team i support and always will be .

Totally unrelated to this thread, but purely because it took me half an hour to scroll down the page...

Why the f**k do you include this team photo at the end of your posts ? It's repeated EVERY single time you post. It's a bit repetitive isn't it ?

And by the way, it's not just you - It's anybody who has a massive image included in the footer, esp. yer man who has the fotie of some bird from a lads mag....Do you think we want to see it after EVERY post ? Do you not find it dull yourself ?

Rant over,
Bungle

If you don't wish to see sigs mate, just go to your control panel/ account options and you can disable them there.

I agree that some of the larger ones can get a bit annoying.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:13 am

Cheers mate...

by **GYBS** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:14 pm

Jesus what will people cry about next ?if you dont like the signatures that people have then just disable as suggested .

Rant Over

by **Owzat** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:38 pm

s@int wrote:If you don't wish to see sigs mate, just go to your control panel/ account options and you can disable them there.

I agree that some of the larger ones can get a bit annoying.

I do that as a matter of course on any forum, signatures are not something I need to see and may be 'clever' but I'm sure forum rules must govern the size (as is the case on some I've been on)

The real question is does someone need to post the same "witty remark", comment or picture in every post? Although as mentioned it is easily remedied, I'm sure it does the site no favours

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:54 pm

By NEIL ASHTON, 26/09/2009
JERMAINE PENNANT is on a roll, raiding down the right wing and pinging precision balls into the box.

The ex-Liverpool midfielder is living on the edge again, at full throttle after a flying start to his new career in Spain.

This is football's original bad-boy, the tearaway with enough tricks up his sleeve to slice open the smartest defences.

The shackles are off at Real Zaragoza, a free spirit after three unfulfilled years at Anfield under Rafa Benitez.

Pennant, still only 26, revealed: "When I was on the touchline all I could hear was Benitez giving me directions.

"At times I'd think 'why don't you just put the batteries in and turn me into a robot'."

But he is his own man again in Zaragoza, living in a plush apartment block in the centre of town and picking up Spanish tit-bits from his new team-mates. He loves the laidback lifestyle after three years of listening to Benitez barking orders.

"Sometimes I just wanted to play my natural game, but there were so many instructions: how to go forward, how to defend.

"He has been through so many players, so many strikers, so many midfielders that he takes the best attributes out of them.

"With Fernando Torres he backed him, told him to score goals and that is exactly what Fernando has done. With his wingers he wants them to do something different. 'Do this, do that, don't cross there'.

"He would tell me to go to the byline and beat a man, but sometimes you don't have to. I prefer to take the politics out of the game."

Pennant has no regrets, not even after leaving Liverpool with just 55 appearances to show for his hefty price tag.

To Pennant's mind, he played for the team he supported as a kid being dragged up on a Nottingham council estate.

He achieved an ambition every time he ran out for the Reds, playing for a top four team in front of 40,000 or more.

He added: "I don't have regrets - what's the point? The bad times make me appreciate the good and right now I'm having a good time. It was Benitez's choice whether to play me.

"He makes the decisions. Liverpool bought Dirk Kuyt as a striker and they play him right wing.

"Rafa has to play him because of the fee they paid for him. He has to justify the price, so he plays him on the right because Fernando is up front.

"Xabi Alonso is one of the best passers I have ever seen, he could pick you out from anywhere but he didn't see eye to eye with Rafa either. I never really got a run in the team. I always felt that if my game was not 100 per cent there was a chance I would not play in the next game."

He rarely got the run he craved, a victim of Benitez's rotation system as the Liverpool chief searched for a title-winning team. His electrifying performance in the 2007 Champions League final against Milan is a cherished moment, a rare success during his career at the club.

Pennant added: "That was probably my best game for Liverpool, but Rafa treated me harshly when I came back from injury the following season. I didn't understand it. There are players at Liverpool and you think 'how is he getting a game?', but Rafa has faith in them. He thinks some of the players are the best thing since sliced bread.

"Rafa didn't have confidence in me. I'd play one week, then I'd be out of the team and think 'hold on a minute - last week I scored one and made two. How does that work?'

"He can be cold, but that's his style. He has a special relationship with Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher - but that's because they are Liverpool. There were times when he took offence with me because he could see how frustrated I was.

"I don't know the reasons, but he's won the European Cup and you can't argue with that. It kills half of Liverpool that they haven't won the league for so long. Something can't be right and they need to start looking into it quickly."

He left on loan last January, rediscovering his zest for the game during a productive six month spell with Portsmouth.

Pennant played his part at Fratton Park, helping to keep the team in the top flight.

He quit for Zaragoza, rebuilding his life in Spain - "I knew the place was somewhere between Madrid and Barcelona" - with a newly-promoted team.

The past will always follow him, but he is remarkably comfortable with the character-assassinations that have accompanied his turbulent career.
Controversy

Even the mention of the 30-day jail term he served in 2005 fails to unseat him. He accepts that he will always corner the market when it comes controversy.

He added: "In England I got caught up in certain things, but I'd like to think it will be different here. Trouble seems to follow me around and I'm an easy target. People here are a bit more respectful and they leave the players alone. The manager doesn't mind if we go out in our own time and that suits."

He's been an instant hit, providing more crosses in La Liga so far this season than any other player - including Cristiano Ronaldo.

But he would swap everything to play for Arsene Wenger again at Arsenal, accepting that he "lost the plot" when he lost his place in 2003.

He said: "Wenger was more relaxed than Benitez, he would give me proper advice. He would encourage me to show my skills and that is why he has done so well with young players.

"He would always tell me that I had amazing potential.

"Unfortunately, there was so much hype around me I thought I should be playing every week. When it didn't happen I got frustrated and lost the plot."

Pennant's immediate ambition is to do well enough in Spain to force his way into Fabio Capello's World Cup squad. The countdown to South Africa is well under way, but Pennant is convinced that he can still pinch a place on the plane.

He added: "The ambition is to get into the World Cup squad. I've never been named in a squad, but I've never given up hope. Capello has twice been a manager out here and if he comes to Spain he's only coming to watch one player.

"Ian Wright got into the England team when he was 26 or 27 and I know it can be done.

"My assets are pace, going past players and crossing. I don't think anyone in that squad crosses the ball as well as me."

He's right, and even a robot couldn't be programmed to do that.
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