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by **Big Niall** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Big Niall wrote:anybody here think that god created us as we are and all the other creatures as they presently are?

Depends on what your definition of "God" is. If it's the picture book sort, where he's a man with a big white beard, then no.

I was more getting at the people who didn't believe in evolution, people who thought we were created as we are.

by **tubby** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:14 pm

Big Niall wrote:I used to think we were evolved from neandarthals, but we aren't. There was a time when they co-existed on the planet. They were a similar specie though.

I really should read more on it.

Actually yeah that sounds familiar. I think they talked about that on that other recent show - The Incredible Human journey or something like that....

by **tubby** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:18 pm

Big Niall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Big Niall wrote:anybody here think that god created us as we are and all the other creatures as they presently are?

Depends on what your definition of "God" is. If it's the picture book sort, where he's a man with a big white beard, then no.

I was more getting at the people who didn't believe in evolution, people who thought we were created as we are.

I believe in evolution and I also believe in God. What I don't believe is the notion that such complex organisms can have come about through a spontaneous act such as the big bang or any other theory.

The problem is we as a civilization are only as intelligent as the knowledge we are currently aware of. As insatiable as we are to better ourselves and increase what we know about a subject we have to remember that at one time we thought the world was flat so there is every chance there could be other aspects to life or anything that we don't understand or cannot yet comprehend.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:31 pm

bavlondon wrote:I believe in evolution and I also believe in God.

"I wonder if it is possible for scientists to be religious. If they believe in these theories strong enough then religion must seem like nothing more than a contradiction."

Why did ask this then?

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:48 pm

Emerald Red wrote:But the fact is, no living soul alive has a clue as to where the building blocks came from in the first place or how it even started.

You might even get trapped in a cycle of infinite regression.

by **tubby** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I believe in evolution and I also believe in God.

"I wonder if it is possible for scientists to be religious. If they believe in these theories strong enough then religion must seem like nothing more than a contradiction."

Why did ask this then?

Well becasue some scientists are so into the theory of evolution and the start of time ect...that the concept of there being a higher power who controls that all probably too far fetched.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 pm

bavlondon wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I believe in evolution and I also believe in God.

"I wonder if it is possible for scientists to be religious. If they believe in these theories strong enough then religion must seem like nothing more than a contradiction."

Why did ask this then?

Well becasue some scientists are so into the theory of evolution and the start of time ect...that the concept of there being a higher power who controls that all probably too far fetched.

Remember - Evolution only explains how living things change over time. Evolution does not explain how live began. Thus many religious people can allow for the theory of Evolution because there is still room for a creator. A higher being who instigated life by forming the universe and constructing the law it abides by.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:12 pm

bavlondon wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:I believe in evolution and I also believe in God.

"I wonder if it is possible for scientists to be religious. If they believe in these theories strong enough then religion must seem like nothing more than a contradiction."

Why did ask this then?

Well becasue some scientists are so into the theory of evolution and the start of time ect...that the concept of there being a higher power who controls that all probably too far fetched.

Bav - many, many scientists hold religious beliefs that they believe to be compatible with their scientific beliefs (And I use that term because in my eyes - ultimately that's what they are). Fundamentalists usually differ, however.

by **Sabre** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:35 pm

I consider myself a scientific, and I'm religious. Scientifics are scientifics of their own branch, and I have only high school level of biology. But yes, I don't think that the woman was taken out of a rib. The religious interpretation of that, for instance, is that woman and man are made of the same thing, which believe it or not, wasn't taken granted for a lot of centuries.

No matter what's your scientific branch, the more you know the more humble you are about what are the limits of science. For anyone that studies the artificial inteligence branch of computer science for instance, knows to admire the brain of a monkey -- let alone a human. You learn to admire it because there's another branch of computer science that studies what can be computed and what cannot (it's about maths). Basically the new computers that appear, know to compute faster than the previous ones, but a problem that isn't solved computationally by current computers, won't be solved by future computers with the current theory (a theory that was developed before we had the technology to make computers, it's pretty old already).

And a monkey's brain does stuff that we wouldn't know how to program. That doesn't prove the idea of God, but it certainly gives you some "humbleness" as a scientific, as nature reaches with evolution a device (the brain) that is much better than your best computer when it comes to intelligence

I guess a physicist is also astonished by nature, or a chemist, or a geologist. So I think there's room for religion for any scientific guy, and I'm pretty sure that there are millions of scientific guys that are religious.

by **Emerald Red** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:12 am

Isnt there a scientific branch in the Church that investigates certain things?

by **Judge** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:56 am

Emerald Red wrote:
Judge wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Big Niall wrote:just finished watching "the cell' on bbc4, basically DNA is the substance of all cells, and all DNA can be transferred from one cell to another, they took one out of the jelly fish and put it into a cell of a flower and it glowed green. As cells, break up and multiply, it therefore seems logical that all our cells originate from the same cell with the one piece of DNA.

While not disproving God (which is probably impossible to do anyway) it does seem like all life form is derived from a single cell.

Any religious people believe this.

Note - it cannot be proven that a God did not create that cell with that DNA.

All forms of life are a mutation derived from a single cell. Not something that I pulled off Google or a TV program either. Just something I actually remember learning from school, so. Now, where that single cell came from is something that no one can give an answer to.

many can give a hypothesis to ER

for example, if conditions are right, then life can spontaneously arise - ie: primordial soup etc.

i read once (cant give you the link etc sorry), that the japanese had spontaneously created a single functioning cell from some amino acids and an electrical charge.

facinating work. so to answer your question - that single cell (mitochondrial eve) mustve rose from the depths of the earth from a similar experience.

But the fact is, no living soul alive has a clue as to where the building blocks came from in the first place or how it even started.

If all we are is thought produced by chemical reactions causing energy, and if energy is a process that is continuous without ever expiring, just merely shifting form from one process to another, then does it not make sense that once a body stops functioning that this energy must go somewhere else as per the rule of science?

For example, everything around you contains energy in one form or another. A piece of bread, as inanimate as it is, can be eaten to produce energy in our muscles, mucles that produce movement in order to strike a match, causing another chemical reaction that produces heat, heat that causes the air to move, or the temperature to change and so on. One big continuous cycle. Thing is, and it's something that's interesting to think about, is that living organisms seem to have been designed in some way to house that energy or to faciliate it and produce a set of reactions that are not spontanious in nature.

everything required in nature (universe) is there for life as we know it. therefore, if conditions are right, then life will find a way.

the chances are that earth was seeded from space in a series of 'accidents' .

then it was a matter of time and conditioning that gave rise to life

seems reasonable

by **Big Niall** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:43 am

I am an atheist, but if there is a god I think it a lot more likely that he created a single cell organism with the ability to evolve and all life is evolved from that.

The bible story seems ridiculous i.e. that we were all created as we are now (and don't get me started on Noah's ark)

by **Judge** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:04 am

evidence of noahs ark just for Big Niall

click link mate

by **Big Niall** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:36 am

Wow - I am born again, praise the lord. Satan was tempting me.

Isn't it amazing how Noah managed to fit every specie on earth onto that one boat.

Thanks Judge for saving my soul.

by **Judge** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:40 am

your soul is not saved, its mine

however, did you know that you can fit the whole human population of the planet onto the isle of man

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