Religion

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Postby Big Niall » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:59 pm

JoeTerp wrote:morality tales?  its filled with immorality.

and I am guessing when you said "take as gospel" were you saying that it was more truthful?

some pretty ridiculous things happen in there too.


its a lot more than just JW and LDS that take it literally, and the religious moderates make the world safe for extremists because they create an environment in which it is too taboo to ask people to defend their beliefs when it comes to religious faith.

How come if somebody has a political belief you are allowed debate the issues, pick holes etc, they debate back, defend their political beliefs.

But yet, religious beliefs are not allowed be questioned, they must be "respected" , If I say "the idea that a man saying words over a glass off wine turns it into the blood of man who lived 2000 years ago" is foolhardy, I am disrespectful , yet the person who believes that nonsense is not questioned.
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Postby dawson99 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:21 am

its about faith and respecting someone's beliefs...
Of course it can be debated, but don't be an a$$ about it :D
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:44 pm

Big Niall wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:morality tales?  its filled with immorality.

and I am guessing when you said "take as gospel" were you saying that it was more truthful?

some pretty ridiculous things happen in there too.


its a lot more than just JW and LDS that take it literally, and the religious moderates make the world safe for extremists because they create an environment in which it is too taboo to ask people to defend their beliefs when it comes to religious faith.

How come if somebody has a political belief you are allowed debate the issues, pick holes etc, they debate back, defend their political beliefs.

But yet, religious beliefs are not allowed be questioned, they must be "respected" , If I say "the idea that a man saying words over a glass off wine turns it into the blood of man who lived 2000 years ago" is foolhardy, I am disrespectful , yet the person who believes that nonsense is not questioned.

I wouldn't say that is disrespectful, it's opinion. Plenty of people disagreed with the concept of transubstantiation (wine becoming the actual blood of christ) in the middle ages, it led to the reformation and subsequently the creation of protestant faiths. They chose to believe in a figurative meaning to the wine. I personally think the Catholic church is not a good representation of Christianity, it has fundamentally changed its beliefs over the centuries.

But going back to the initial point - I can disagree with the beliefs of Catholicism because this country allows me freedom of speech. Disrespect can only come when your reasons or methods of disagreeing are not reasonable.
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Postby Big Niall » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:17 pm

dawson99 wrote:its about faith and respecting someone's beliefs...
Of course it can be debated, but don't be an a$$ about it :D

Isn't faith just another word for believing in something remarkable of which there is absolutely no evidence?

If so, how is it a good thing?
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Postby dawson99 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:50 pm

Big Niall wrote:
dawson99 wrote:its about faith and respecting someone's beliefs...
Of course it can be debated, but don't be an a$$ about it :D

Isn't faith just another word for believing in something remarkable of which there is absolutely no evidence?

If so, how is it a good thing?

No, faith is completely different.
It's believing in something greater than us, something more than us.

Completely different from believing we can fly or something.

The whole point of faith is you don't need evidence...

I would rather believe in something than believe in nothing, but that's just me, each to his own. If you just live a good life, try not to hurt others, can't really go wrong tho.. but of course it's much more compelx than that
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Postby Judge » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:42 pm

yes dawson. i had faith we would beat tottenham. there was no evidence for that as we f'ucking lost :angry: :D
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:55 pm

A famous anecdote accredited to Albert Einstein gives a good defence of faith -

University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?"

A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil. And, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color.

You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's Inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


As much as it could clearly be fiction (no one really knows), it serves a good example of how any argument can be swung with good reasoning. Regardless of anyones belief in god or any faith, there will always be doubters who use clever reasoning to back their opinions.
Last edited by SouthCoastShankly on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tubby » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:54 pm

So British troops are dying and being injured to uohold a government that has basically said it will condone rape? What a mess.
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Postby Big Niall » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Just out of interest do the people who believe in god believe he interferes in Earth e.g. somebody sick ,plane crashes and many survive , etc

I just never understand how a plane crashes kills 200 people and 5 survive, and people go "thank god".

It is one of the most stupid things ever. Why would he kill the 200 and save the 5? Same with the thank god my friend survived the disease they had, what - you think god said f*ck the other people, let them die, I'll save your friend because of that prayer you said.
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Postby Big Niall » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:03 pm

dawson99 wrote:[

If you just live a good life, try not to hurt others, can't really go wrong tho.. but of course it's much more compelx than that[/quote]
I have to be good? but I'm an a$$hole, I know that, I was planning on just praying for forgiveness on my death bed just in case.
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Postby Judge » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:20 am

pray hard niall :D
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Postby tubby » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:08 am

Big Niall wrote:Just out of interest do the people who believe in god believe he interferes in Earth e.g. somebody sick ,plane crashes and many survive , etc

I just never understand how a plane crashes kills 200 people and 5 survive, and people go "thank god".

It is one of the most stupid things ever. Why would he kill the 200 and save the 5? Same with the thank god my friend survived the disease they had, what - you think god said f*ck the other people, let them die, I'll save your friend because of that prayer you said.

It's the cycle of life. People are always dying. Just becasue someone is saved from what could otherwise be a tragic death does not mean the people close to them cannot rejoice.

Maybe one day if you or god forbid one of your family members happens to find yourself in a similar situation then you will change your tune.

At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Although you seem to have made it clear you don't believe in anything.....other than slagging of Rafas youth signings.  :laugh:
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Postby Judge » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:12 am

Niall have not seen Final Destination? :D
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Postby tubby » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:02 pm

Judge wrote:Niall have not seen Final Destination? :D

:laugh:
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Postby Big Niall » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:03 pm

just finished watching "the cell' on bbc4, basically DNA is the substance of all cells, and all DNA can be transferred from one cell to another, they took one out of the jelly fish and put it into a cell of a flower and it glowed green. As cells, break up and multiply, it therefore seems logical that all our cells originate from the same cell with the one piece of DNA.

While not disproving God (which is probably impossible to do anyway) it does seem like all life form is derived from a single cell.

Any religious people believe this.

Note - it cannot be proven that a God did not create that cell with that DNA.
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