Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:58 am

IF we signed Johnson for the right back position then i am happy enough with Dirk as he will get support going forward.
But if we dont and its Arbeloa (who i do think is good enough to stay) then i think there will be lots of occasions were we struggle to open teams up down the right.

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:28 am

peewee wrote:
dawson99 wrote:hindsight always 20-20.. but we can only look at what we had and what he did...

this is true. But for my part I still see him as a limited player, still has poor control, still has no pace, and still needs to be replaced with a better player who can unlock defences, who can go past players, who has a first touch and doesnt look like he works so hard because good players dont make it look like hard work, good players do not have to run 10 yards to control their first touch

in an ideal world we would have better players in all 11 (ok, maybe 9) positions , as only gerrard, torres (reina?) could be argue as being amongst the best players in their positions around...

i see your point peewee about improving on the RW position, but imo when you have a player who has shown that he can do what dirk has this season (ie all his goals & contributions to goals, plus his defensive abilities etc) then given we have limited resources it's probably best to lay off the criticism of a succesful component of the squad and start looking at the less succesful bits

ie. RB, LW, CF, CB

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:54 am

DrPepe wrote:
peewee wrote:
dawson99 wrote:hindsight always 20-20.. but we can only look at what we had and what he did...

this is true. But for my part I still see him as a limited player, still has poor control, still has no pace, and still needs to be replaced with a better player who can unlock defences, who can go past players, who has a first touch and doesnt look like he works so hard because good players dont make it look like hard work, good players do not have to run 10 yards to control their first touch

in an ideal world we would have better players in all 11 (ok, maybe 9) positions , as only gerrard, torres (reina?) could be argue as being amongst the best players in their positions around...

i see your point peewee about improving on the RW position, but imo when you have a player who has shown that he can do what dirk has this season (ie all his goals & contributions to goals, plus his defensive abilities etc) then given we have limited resources it's probably best to lay off the criticism of a succesful component of the squad and start looking at the less succesful bits

ie. RB, LW, CF, CB

does the right back come under more pressure because we have a right sided midfielder who can't hang onto the ball though?

And I don't consider harrying a player until you give a foul away as defensive capabilities.

No doubt he will be here next season, but i doubt he will have suddenly got pace or a decent first touch so we will still be having this duscussion next season

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:04 am

peewee wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
peewee wrote:
dawson99 wrote:hindsight always 20-20.. but we can only look at what we had and what he did...

this is true. But for my part I still see him as a limited player, still has poor control, still has no pace, and still needs to be replaced with a better player who can unlock defences, who can go past players, who has a first touch and doesnt look like he works so hard because good players dont make it look like hard work, good players do not have to run 10 yards to control their first touch

in an ideal world we would have better players in all 11 (ok, maybe 9) positions , as only gerrard, torres (reina?) could be argue as being amongst the best players in their positions around...

i see your point peewee about improving on the RW position, but imo when you have a player who has shown that he can do what dirk has this season (ie all his goals & contributions to goals, plus his defensive abilities etc) then given we have limited resources it's probably best to lay off the criticism of a succesful component of the squad and start looking at the less succesful bits

ie. RB, LW, CF, CB

does the right back come under more pressure because we have a right sided midfielder who can't hang onto the ball though?

And I don't consider harrying a player until you give a foul away as defensive capabilities.

No doubt he will be here next season, but i doubt he will have suddenly got pace or a decent first touch so we will still be having this duscussion next season

imo he's very good defensively both in his position wide and also with his noggin from set pieces

as for next season, if kuyt continues to score 12-15+ goals a season with another 10 assists for the rest of his career at liverpool and people are still unhappy - then i think those people have a major hangup , because any other player who did that would be lauded

:laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:07 am

well we will have to agree to disagree mate, I suppose you are also happy that we have won feck all for three seasons (not aimed at kuyt but pointing out you may be one of those fans whom just accept mediocrity)

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:11 am

peewee wrote:well we will have to agree to disagree mate, I suppose you are also happy that we have won feck all for three seasons (not aimed at kuyt but pointing out you may be one of those fans whom just accept mediocrity)

yep i 'm really happy we've won nothing for 3 seasons

it's the first basic requirement as a member of the Dirk Kuyt Supporters Alliance

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:12 am

yeah we need that sarcasm smiley

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:13 am

peewee wrote:yeah we need that sarcasm smiley

by **aCe'** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:35 am

Kuyt is a poor footballer by all standards... but he did score and provide for the team last season so credit to him... still doesnt change the fact that we struggle against the smaller sides mainly due to a lack of creativity in the final third... Now 0-0 against Stoke with 15mins to go, if you know that the team is struggling for creativity and a bit of flair upfront, who would you rather replace :
Gerrard
Torres
Riera/Benayoun
or Dirk Kuyt

i know who i'd pick.....

He's a good little player dont get me wrong, but football just isnt his thing, and a winger he is not... played out of his skin last season and most definitely overachieved, i have no doubt that he'll still be our 1st choice down the right wing next season, and deservedly so after the season he's had, but we shall wait and see if he can reproduce his form of the last 1/3 of this season next season...

oh and i agree about us needing a more attacking right back for next season.. one who would be able to go beyond Kuyt down the flank and carry the ball rather than just pass it as soon as he gets it...

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:53 am

Dirk is an absolute monster of an athlete

I think some would like us to put 11 twinkle toed pixies on the pitch, then watch in awe as they dance betwixt opposition defenders before delicately back heeling the ball dans Le sac d'onion...

Get wise people. A football team requires a combo of physical and mental strength plus skill and speed
For every ronaldoz, riera, Henry, messi, alves, there'll always be a Park, kuyt, even Rooney is used as a defensive , hustling wide forward

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:54 am

aCe' wrote:Kuyt is a poor footballer by all standards...

except for the standards that actually matter

ie. end product

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:10 pm

DrPepe wrote:
aCe' wrote:Kuyt is a poor footballer by all standards...

except for the standards that actually matter

ie. end product

End product? We have won NOTHING since Kuyt joined us. Of course its always possible that that's just a coincidence.

by **Owzat** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:59 pm

s@int wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
aCe' wrote:Kuyt is a poor footballer by all standards...

except for the standards that actually matter

ie. end product

End product? We have won NOTHING since Kuyt joined us. Of course its always possible that that's just a coincidence.

We reached a Champions League final with Kuyt in the side, does that make Torres a worse player because we've not even done that since we signed him.................?

I trust you are kidding s@int, with some of the others, the "anti-Kuyt brigade", resurfacing again now 'it's safe' it is hard to tell with some people who is kidding and who is an idiot.

by **aCe'** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:27 pm

Owzat wrote:
s@int wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
aCe' wrote:Kuyt is a poor footballer by all standards...

except for the standards that actually matter

ie. end product

End product? We have won NOTHING since Kuyt joined us. Of course its always possible that that's just a coincidence.

We reached a Champions League final with Kuyt in the side, does that make Torres a worse player because we've not even done that since we signed him.................?

I trust you are kidding s@int, with some of the others, the "anti-Kuyt brigade", resurfacing again now 'it's safe' it is hard to tell with some people who is kidding and who is an idiot.

its absolutely indisputable when it comes to you though....
back to your calculator boy we'll let you know when we want you to put together a bunch of numbers....

by **aCe'** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:36 pm

DrPepe wrote:Dirk is an absolute monster of an athlete

I think some would like us to put 11 twinkle toed pixies on the pitch, then watch in awe as they dance betwixt opposition defenders before delicately back heeling the ball dans Le sac d'onion...

Get wise people. A football team requires a combo of physical and mental strength plus skill and speed
For every ronaldoz, riera, Henry, messi, alves, there'll always be a Park, kuyt, even Rooney is used as a defensive , hustling wide forward

But then again, the difference between Park, Rooney, Yaya Toure and Kuyt is that the other can actually play and contribute to the positive buildup and creative play of their sides when played higher up... Kuyt doesnt... Ill say it again.. we dont need to score more goals... we scored the most goals last season but still ended up winning fck all... what we need to do is manage to break down smaller teams with more ease and more frequently... in which case you have to look at out setup and our attacking player, and its obvious that Kuyt (from the attacking bunch) draws the shorter stick when it comes to that.... but fair enough you have your opinion and i have mine....

Personally, i wouldnt look to change Kuyt after the season he's had... probably be a wiser idea to replace the left winger and rightback before we consider changing Kuyt, but then again i strongly believe that it will only be a matter of time before his goals dry up yet again, and he comes under the spotlight for being the poor, unproductive and unclutured winger he is...

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