Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:49 am

redrover wrote:bloody hell can we stay on the subject for more than two posts people please.
in my readings on this mb the people (yes you gybs) who defend rafa the most point ,to progress, as in we are in contention at last ,that we are second ,and its because of rafa ,and he needs more time ,and he and he catch my drift. but this begs the question. what do you make of martin oneill and the job he has done with villa. are they in contention at this stage of the season? yes. is it because of him ? yes. are they making progress ? yes. has he had as much time at villa as rafa has ? no. has he spent as much money as rafa has ? no. if rafa is doing such a great job then how would you explain the incredible progress villa have made in 1 season when it has taken rafa 3 years more and multi millions of pounds more to be more or less in the same position give or take a few points ? ???

Going from an average side to a good side is a lot easier than going from a good side to a title winning side.

by **redrover** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:54 am

fair point but you cannot deny that they have made progress in a fraction of the time it took rafa to make progress in the pl. maybe their season will unfold but they have made clever signings and they too will make more.mon has proved in scotland and every where else he has been that he can get the best out of players and consistently make them punch above their weight. i think it will be very interesting to see how they progress and i for one would not be surprised if he ended up at castle grey skull when the anti christ shuffles of the stage

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:57 am

Zidane wrote:
redrover wrote:bloody hell can we stay on the subject for more than two posts people please.
in my readings on this mb the people (yes you gybs) who defend rafa the most point ,to progress, as in we are in contention at last ,that we are second ,and its because of rafa ,and he needs more time ,and he and he catch my drift. but this begs the question. what do you make of martin oneill and the job he has done with villa. are they in contention at this stage of the season? yes. is it because of him ? yes. are they making progress ? yes. has he had as much time at villa as rafa has ? no. has he spent as much money as rafa has ? no. if rafa is doing such a great job then how would you explain the incredible progress villa have made in 1 season when it has taken rafa 3 years more and multi millions of pounds more to be more or less in the same position give or take a few points ? ???

Going from an average side to a good side is a lot easier than going from a good side to a title winning side.

Yeah exactly. No need for golf handicaps, that's what I meant to say.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:02 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ar4SzuZSHE

by **kazza** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:31 am

bigmick wrote:It was certainly an interesting place to be this thread yesterday. One of the pains in the erse about living in New Zealand is that often you're around when others aren't, and that was the case yesterday. Just me and three of the apparently many people who evidently think I'm a c...

It won''t go down as one of my favourite sessions on newkit, but there you go.

The one thing it did do was cause me to change my conviction. I gave it much thought, and I've given it much thought since. I'm not talking about rotation obviously because much as they hate it I was right on that one, they don't even bother arguing the point anymore. I'm also not talking about my impression that the draws earleir in the season would cost us in the end. They called me all sorts for saying it but they were wrong there as well. I'm not talking about my belief that we should change the manager even, nope I'm fairly set there and prepared to wait and see if the evidence makes it the right call or not. I hope I'm wrong on this one, but we'll see.

No, the bit where I've changed my mind is in the bit where I pledged to curt right back on posting, to give the people who are a bit more positive more chance to have their voices heard. I've changed my mind there for a couple of reasons. Firstly and formostly, because I don't like and never have liked bullies. It leaves a nasty taste in my mouth to see three or four people rounding on one, a man picking on a woman or people trying to get their own way by aggression. In real life I'd jump in on the side of the underdog, when the underdog is me I'm happy to stand my corner with the biggest and best. I don't run from people I'm too old and too slow for that, and there's a world of difference between me volunteering to take a back seat and stick to two threads, and being pushed on my way by a pack of baying no nowts.

So I retract my pledge yesterday to step aside. To Barry, if that was an apology I read from you earlier, I unreservedly accept. It's forgotten. If it wasn't an apology, it should be but no matter, what's done is done. Kazza I'll not mention as it wouldn't be fair as he's on my "ignore poster" list, and to Lando I will await our next discussion about football, I always think I'm playing at Home when we're talking there, and 3-0 up, and you've had two men sent off. GYBS has mentioned me in a few posts as well I notice this morning. "Mick this" and "Mick that". To him, I will repeat what I said yesterday and say that I actually quite like the fella. I have no axe to grind, he's obviously on a different side of the fence to me on both things, but that's OK. I didn't mean to upset you on your "poll" thread fella, it was a wind-up and where I come from once you start getting wind-ups, it proves people think you're alright. No bother if you don't think the same, what I think of you doesn't depend on what you think of me.

I don't do flame wars on the internet and I aren't going to start now. Lets move on.

For someone who is "ignoring" me you seem quite obsessed with me as you keep mentioning me. So am I the bully and you are the poor defensless woman? Get a grip and stop taking yourself so seriously as your victim claim is pathetic. You are an average bloke nothing more nothing less but boy can you go on. You do have a telent, helping people who suffer from insomnia.

I would say that this forum is very good for your ego (too bad it is just the internet)

by **GYBS** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:34 am

redrover wrote:bloody hell can we stay on the subject for more than two posts people please.
in my readings on this mb the people (yes you gybs) who defend rafa the most point ,to progress, as in we are in contention at last ,that we are second ,and its because of rafa ,and he needs more time ,and he and he catch my drift. but this begs the question. what do you make of martin oneill and the job he has done with villa. are they in contention at this stage of the season? yes. is it because of him ? yes. are they making progress ? yes. has he had as much time at villa as rafa has ? no. has he spent as much money as rafa has ? no. if rafa is doing such a great job then how would you explain the incredible progress villa have made in 1 season when it has taken rafa 3 years more and multi millions of pounds more to be more or less in the same position give or take a few points ? ???

Mon has also been able to spend whatever he wants to get players - yeah doesnt have to be big money but they have still spent a fair bit of money - also just like the people say lets see where we end up end of season - lets see where they end up and if they can break into the top 4 on a consistent basis as opposed to doing a BS and getting in for one year . I still think the long season will catch up and with them playing all the top 4 coming up can see them slipping down to 5th

by **GYBS** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:39 am

redrover wrote:fair point but you cannot deny that they have made progress in a fraction of the time it took rafa to make progress in the pl. maybe their season will unfold but they have made clever signings and they too will make more.mon has proved in scotland and every where else he has been that he can get the best out of players and consistently make them punch above their weight. i think it will be very interesting to see how they progress and i for one would not be surprised if he ended up at castle grey skull when the anti christ shuffles of the stage

How long has Mon been at the job ? 3-4 years ow is it and now they are just threatening to break into the CL spots ? First season Rafa won CL but missed out on CL spot , Next season comfortably made CL spot and won FA cup and next team season got to final of CL and made CL spot and last season semi final and made CL spot . both times pretty well clear of 4th one season (when spurs nearly beat arsenal to it ) and 5th spot last season when BS threatened for a little bit . so would suggest rafa has progressed in the prem a bit better than MON .

by **JC_81** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:30 am

GYBS wrote:
redrover wrote:fair point but you cannot deny that they have made progress in a fraction of the time it took rafa to make progress in the pl. maybe their season will unfold but they have made clever signings and they too will make more.mon has proved in scotland and every where else he has been that he can get the best out of players and consistently make them punch above their weight. i think it will be very interesting to see how they progress and i for one would not be surprised if he ended up at castle grey skull when the anti christ shuffles of the stage

How long has Mon been at the job ? 3-4 years ow is it and now they are just threatening to break into the CL spots ? First season Rafa won CL but missed out on CL spot , Next season comfortably made CL spot and won FA cup and next team season got to final of CL and made CL spot and last season semi final and made CL spot . both times pretty well clear of 4th one season (when spurs nearly beat arsenal to it ) and 5th spot last season when BS threatened for a little bit . so would suggest rafa has progressed in the prem a bit better than MON .

Don't talk utter rubbish mate.

To belittle O'Neil's achievements in English football is ridiculous. Like him or loathe him he is a fantastic manager. Success with Wycome, brought Leicester City into Europe, broke Rangers' stranglehold on the SPL and got Celtic to the UEFA cup final. Now he'll get Villa into the Champions League. All with smaller clubs with smaller budgets than Benitez has at Liverpool.

I'm not saying O'Neil would be a success at a top club, it's a completely different type of job. And I agree with what Mick was saying about it being easier to make poor sides good than it is to make good sides great. But you can't deny that the man has done fantastically well wherever he's been.

by **GYBS** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:41 am

Whoa hold on - who is belittling anything - and the first sentance mentioned O Neil - ie he has been there 3-4 years and now they are threatening the CL spot - so tell me how that is rubbish ? Lets wait and see where they end up at the end of season before crowning him a wonder manager.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:47 am

GYBS wrote:
redrover wrote:bloody hell can we stay on the subject for more than two posts people please.
in my readings on this mb the people (yes you gybs) who defend rafa the most point ,to progress, as in we are in contention at last ,that we are second ,and its because of rafa ,and he needs more time ,and he and he catch my drift. but this begs the question. what do you make of martin oneill and the job he has done with villa. are they in contention at this stage of the season? yes. is it because of him ? yes. are they making progress ? yes. has he had as much time at villa as rafa has ? no. has he spent as much money as rafa has ? no. if rafa is doing such a great job then how would you explain the incredible progress villa have made in 1 season when it has taken rafa 3 years more and multi millions of pounds more to be more or less in the same position give or take a few points ? ???

Mon has also been able to spend whatever he wants to get players - yeah doesnt have to be big money but they have still spent a fair bit of money - also just like the people say lets see where we end up end of season - lets see where they end up and if they can break into the top 4 on a consistent basis as opposed to doing a BS and getting in for one year . I still think the long season will catch up and with them playing all the top 4 coming up can see them slipping down to 5th

i think if he had been able to spend what he wanted then he would have spent what he wanted rather than the amount he did spend which is still less than benitez.

read your first two lines again mate, they are actually quite ridiculous, next you will be telling us villa have a bottomless pit of money

arguing for the sake of arguing there, its asthough your saying MON has blank cheque while rafa has to make do with pennies

does anyone have the figure to hand as to what MON has spent? (probably less than spurs)

by **GYBS** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:55 am

The point i was making is MON seems to be backed fully by his board mate and by Randy Learner so never seems to have a prob buying whoever he wants .

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:59 am

He's done a great job, and Villa are having a fine season. Anyone who has taken any notice of the nonsense I've talked about him in the past would know that I too think he's a brilliant manager. The only things are the two I said earlier. Firstly I have a feeling they maybe in a slightly false position, and secondly whilst I accept the unbelieveable job he's done, the hard work is going to start for them now.

I would go as far as saying that Villa are kind of my "second team" right now, in a similar way to the Barcodes were when Keegan had them going for the title. I like the way they play football, I like O'Neill and I like the way he goes about the job.

by **Judge** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:04 am

bigmick wrote:He's done a great job, and Villa are having a fine season. Anyone who has taken any notice of the nonsense I've talked about him in the past would know that I too think he's a brilliant manager. The only things are the two I said earlier. Firstly I have a feeling they maybe in a slightly false position, and secondly whilst I accept the unbelieveable job he's done, the hard work is going to start for them now.

I would go as far as saying that Villa are kind of my "second team" right now, in a similar way to the Barcodes were when Keegan had them going for the title. I like the way they play football, I like O'Neill and I like the way he goes about the job.

unfortunately villa came unstuck yesterday

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:05 am

GYBS wrote:The point i was making is MON seems to be backed fully by his board mate and by Randy Learner so never seems to have a prob buying whoever he wants .

To be fair mate one of the reasons he has no problem buying who he wants is that nobody else seems to much want the players he picks up.

When he bid 11 million quid for Ashley Young off Watford there wasn't mch competition, and neither was there when he bought Milner for 12 (the latter of which seemed like a ridiculous amount of money to me but he's doing well so I was wrong). Zak Knight didn't have a list of suitors, neither did Steve Sidwell nor Emile Heskey at 5 million and 3 million respectively. Curtis Davis was looked at by a lot a lot but not bid for by many, while the likes of Stillian Petrov looked like a gamble at 7 million quid despite doing well in Scotland. Brad friedal had very few after him either for 3 million or whatever he was.

Most managers these days don't look in the same places as O'Neill. They do more air miles on one scouting mission than the Irishman does in his mtor in one season. That's why he buys who he wants, because the other managers are all buying Carlos Kickaballs in far flung corners of the earth.

by **GYBS** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:18 am

I think O neil is a decent manager - liked him when he was at leicester and Celtic and while at Villa - didnt like the way he acted towards us during the summer but cant blame him at all for wanting to keep hold of one of his players . I do think his brand of football is a bit one dimensional with a lot of it route one to two pacey guys in agbonlahor and young , with not much patient build up - but that is more to do with the players he has got . Like you say - the real test for him is what happens now and until the end of the season - and if they do stay in the CL spots the even bigger test next year is keeping them there and not being a one season wonder and actually progressing into the group stage of the cl. There players need that sort of stage to see how good they are - Young,Agbonlahor,Milner etc are damn good prem player - but need to see how they do on the really big stage - Agbonlahor looks very raw when playing for england - a bit lacking of ideas when he cant use just his pace alone . Interesting times ahead for Villa and also if they can keep hold of the manager cause i can see Mon being looked at for the Chelsea and Man City jobs and in the future the Man Utd job.

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