Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:53 pm

I didn't know the inside details like you guys but that is one thing I think Rafa -really- hates. He might just be sticking it to the Parry for not agreeing to sign Barry instead of Keane. Still though Keane looking like a fool here is all on Rafa.

If Barry had come who knows how we would be doing though, Xabi wouldn't have the confidence he has now and probably would be in same form as last season. He's played a huge part in where we are so in a way Rafa should be happy the Barry thing didn't work out instead of holding a grudge and taking it out on Keane(not saying he is but theoretically speaking).

by **Rush Job** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:06 pm

s@int wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
s@int wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:TBH I'm completely stumped when it comes to Rafa's apparent "attitude" to Robbie Keane. Having agreed a £20 million fee for the fella you would expect Rafa to be going all out to support, encourage and get the best from the player. Instead it sometimes seems that Rafa's been landed with a player that he didn't really want in the first place, almost shades of Mourinho and Schevchenko. Is it a case of Rafa expecting Keane to do a Torres and immediately step up to the plate and having failed to do so he's now on Rafa's sh'it list ? .

Not noted for putting an arm around players I'm wondering if Rafa has got it wrong on this one, not defending Keane here, but the world and it's dog expected better things from Keane at LFC, whats gone wrong ? surely Rafa bears some responsibility for it ? .

I wonder if Keane wasn't exactly top of Rafa's list of buys in the summer. Maybe he wanted Barry much more? Parry gets the list and goes for the one he likes best, rather than the one Rafa needs most? Pays so much for Keane that we can't afford the others Rafa was after, and totally blows Rafa's transfer plans out the window.

Mate that is exacly as I see it, from reading between the lines and from what has been said Rafa wanted Barry as his big signing and ended up with Keane who was more Parry choice.
The only reason I havent said so is because I know certain people would have seen it as me just trying to remove blame from Rafa so I kept it to myself.
The other thing is when people say how could he spend 20mill on Keane, well HE didnt, Rafa plays no part in monetary negotiations and if he did I dout he would have spent so much on someone who wasnt even his number one target.But obviously thats just my opinion.

Luckily I have no such worries Rushie

I do try and be balanced mate but some on here have me pencilled in as a happy clapper and so disregard my opinion, I dont think I am although I do try to find the positives.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:19 pm

1. "If a player is out of form, play him through it." - Check.

2. "If a player is playing badly and affecting our results, drop him." Check.

3. "Cut back on rotation." - Check.

4. "Play a more attacking game." - Check.

5. "If we are still in the hunt at Christmas, then I will be happy that we are making progress." - Remains to be seen.

So then. Why all the negativity? He's done exactly what the majority of you asked for.

(I guess it's hard to soften your approach to him now, though, having convinced yourselves that he is Satan's bed-fellow, and incapable of change...)

by **Petar** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:30 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:1. "If a player is out of form, play him through it." - Check.

2. "If a player is playing badly and affecting our results, drop him." Check.

3. "Cut back on rotation." - Check.

4. "Play a more attacking game." - Check.

5. "If we are still in the hunt at Christmas, then I will be happy that we are making progress." - Remains to be seen.

So then. Why all the negativity? He's done exactly what the majority of you asked for.

(I guess it's hard to soften your approach to him now, though, having convinced yourselves that he is Satan's bed-fellow, and incapable of change...)

is there any possibility that you are Rafa Benitez?

by **Petar** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:35 pm

Rafael Benitez wanted to spend 20 milion pounds on Gareth Barry. Every disscussion should finish there. We already HAD Xabi!

He did not want to spend money on a winger,or flowing attacking midfielder! Really some silly decissions

by **bigmick** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:36 pm

Rush Job wrote:
s@int wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:TBH I'm completely stumped when it comes to Rafa's apparent "attitude" to Robbie Keane. Having agreed a £20 million fee for the fella you would expect Rafa to be going all out to support, encourage and get the best from the player. Instead it sometimes seems that Rafa's been landed with a player that he didn't really want in the first place, almost shades of Mourinho and Schevchenko. Is it a case of Rafa expecting Keane to do a Torres and immediately step up to the plate and having failed to do so he's now on Rafa's sh'it list ? .

Not noted for putting an arm around players I'm wondering if Rafa has got it wrong on this one, not defending Keane here, but the world and it's dog expected better things from Keane at LFC, whats gone wrong ? surely Rafa bears some responsibility for it ? .

I wonder if Keane wasn't exactly top of Rafa's list of buys in the summer. Maybe he wanted Barry much more? Parry gets the list and goes for the one he likes best, rather than the one Rafa needs most? Pays so much for Keane that we can't afford the others Rafa was after, and totally blows Rafa's transfer plans out the window.

Mate that is exacly as I see it, from reading between the lines and from what has been said Rafa wanted Barry as his big signing and ended up with Keane who was more Parry choice.
The only reason I havent said so is because I know certain people would have seen it as me just trying to remove blame from Rafa so I kept it to myself.
The other thing is when people say how could he spend 20mill on Keane, well HE didnt, Rafa plays no part in monetary negotiations and if he did I dout he would have spent so much on someone who wasnt even his number one target.But obviously thats just my opinion.

I was wondering how long this theory would take to surface. When you say the reason you didn't say it Rushie (this thing about Keane been Parry's choice not Rafa's) was because you felt certain people would view it as an attempt to "remove blame" from Rafa, you were spot on.

The "Parry theory" is an attempt to remove blame for a misfiring 20 million quid transfer from Rafa, nothing more, nothing less

I ask you this, knowing Rafa as we do, does anybody seriously believe Parry would be able to spend 20 million quid on a player who Rafa doesn't want without the manager at the very least kicking off, and in all probability fecking off?

No, Keane was Rafa's choice and it's down to him and the player to try their very best to make the thing work. 20 million quid is a sh!tload of money, and we just happen to be fully engaged in the title race (oops) so sorting it out is far more impotant than any individuals ego. Step one, centainly while Torres is injured is playing Keane, regardless (yep, I mean regardless) of how he plays.

by **andy_g** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:40 pm

even if you have a striker that cost 20 milion quid that you're not really that keen on (no pun intended) you wouldn't really just leave him sitting on the bench in a game you need to win. would you?

by **Petar** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:50 pm

bigmick wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
s@int wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:TBH I'm completely stumped when it comes to Rafa's apparent "attitude" to Robbie Keane. Having agreed a £20 million fee for the fella you would expect Rafa to be going all out to support, encourage and get the best from the player. Instead it sometimes seems that Rafa's been landed with a player that he didn't really want in the first place, almost shades of Mourinho and Schevchenko. Is it a case of Rafa expecting Keane to do a Torres and immediately step up to the plate and having failed to do so he's now on Rafa's sh'it list ? .

Not noted for putting an arm around players I'm wondering if Rafa has got it wrong on this one, not defending Keane here, but the world and it's dog expected better things from Keane at LFC, whats gone wrong ? surely Rafa bears some responsibility for it ? .

I wonder if Keane wasn't exactly top of Rafa's list of buys in the summer. Maybe he wanted Barry much more? Parry gets the list and goes for the one he likes best, rather than the one Rafa needs most? Pays so much for Keane that we can't afford the others Rafa was after, and totally blows Rafa's transfer plans out the window.

Mate that is exacly as I see it, from reading between the lines and from what has been said Rafa wanted Barry as his big signing and ended up with Keane who was more Parry choice.
The only reason I havent said so is because I know certain people would have seen it as me just trying to remove blame from Rafa so I kept it to myself.
The other thing is when people say how could he spend 20mill on Keane, well HE didnt, Rafa plays no part in monetary negotiations and if he did I dout he would have spent so much on someone who wasnt even his number one target.But obviously thats just my opinion.

I was wondering how long this theory would take to surface. When you say the reason you didn't say it Rushie (this thing about Keane been Parry's choice not Rafa's) was because you felt certain people would view it as an attempt to "remove blame" from Rafa, you were spot on.

The "Parry theory" is an attempt to remove blame for a misfiring 20 million quid transfer from Rafa, nothing more, nothing less

I ask you this, knowing Rafa as we do, does anybody seriously believe Parry would be able to spend 20 million quid on a player who Rafa doesn't want without the manager at the very least kicking off, and in all probability fecking off?

No, Keane was Rafa's choice and it's down to him and the player to try their very best to make the thing work. 20 million quid is a sh!tload of money, and we just happen to be fully engaged in the title race (oops) so sorting it out is far more impotant than any individuals ego. Step one, centainly while Torres is injured is playing Keane, regardless (yep, I mean regardless) of how he plays.

shhhhhhhh! Realistic means negative and shitt supporter here

by **woof woof !** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:01 pm

bigmick wrote:I ask you this, knowing Rafa as we do, does anybody seriously believe Parry would be able to spend 20 million quid on a player who Rafa doesn't want without the manager at the very least kicking off, and in all probability fecking off?

No, Keane was Rafa's choice and it's down to him and the player to try their very best to make the thing work. 20 million quid is a sh!tload of money, and we just happen to be fully engaged in the title race (oops) so sorting it out is far more impotant than any individuals ego. Step one, centainly while Torres is injured is playing Keane, regardless (yep, I mean regardless) of how he plays.

First off Mick,despite the certainty in your observation "knowing Rafa as we do" I don't believe that any of us (apart from maybe Stu

) know Rafa at all.

Sticking with what we do know, Rafa once famously declared

"I asked for a sofa and they bought me a lamp"

I can't therefore believe that Rafa would allow himself to be put in the same position again.

IMO based on the admittedly f'uck all I know, the Keane signing is 100% down to Rafa, whats got me scratching my head is the apparent lack of support Rafa is showing to that decision.

What we do kind of know from experience is that Rafa ships 'em in and just as quickly ships them out again if they don't measure up, but to take that attitude on a £20 mill signing smacks of lottery winner on the loose in Las Vegas, stick another chip in the machine , pull the lever and hope, our problem of course is that we haven't (so far) won the lottery.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:22 pm

My idea was more or less on the lines of Rafa wanted Keane, but not at £20million, as that fkd up his plans both to buy Barry and whoever else he had in mind.

Ie Rafa make a list of 3 or 4 players he wants. Parry after weeks of thinking over the pro's and cons of switching his phone on, finally does so. Spurs say they wont sell Keane for less than £12million, so Parry being a tough negotiator offers them £20million take it or leave it.

Parry then realises that he hasn't enough money left to buy Barry etc etc so quickly switches his phone off and goes back to sleep.

by **Zidane** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:36 pm

s@int wrote:My idea was more or less on the lines of Rafa wanted Keane, but not at £20million, as that fkd up his plans both to buy Barry and whoever else he had in mind.

Ie Rafa make a list of 3 or 4 players he wants. Parry after weeks of thinking over the pro's and cons of switching his phone on, finally does so. Spurs say they wont sell Keane for less than £12million, so Parry being a tough negotiator offers them £20million take it or leave it.

Parry then realises that he hasn't enough money left to buy Barry etc etc so quickly switches his phone off and goes back to sleep.

I know Parry has a bad rep but damn haha.

by **taff** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:45 pm

I think Rafa bought Keane and is of the opinion at this moment in time that its not going for him and he would not have made a difference on the weekend. I also think that Rafa will keep him if he thinks it will come good for him.

The other thing that might have happened is that Keane will not or cannot play the way Rafa wants him to and he will go.

Benitez comes across as a pragmatist more than anything else and the substitutions were what he thought would win the game and the Keane thing to us and the media is a big issue and to Keane himself probably but to Rafa is just a decision that he felt was right with the way he saw the game developing. It is cold and goes against most ways of thinking but we love hime when his tactical know how gets results

by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:52 pm

The "Parry theory" is an attempt to remove blame for a misfiring 20 million quid transfer from Rafa, nothing more, nothing less

A theory I don't buy, for the record.

Parry doesn't decide the list of players we're interested on, Rafa does. Out of that list, Parry will in theory make happen those of the movements that can be made. But I have never thought Keane was Parry's option. I've read it here and there in this forum but I don't know where it comes from that theory. Perhaps Parry told Rafa Keane could be done and Barry couldn't, but that doesn't make Keane Parry's option. (Feel free to correct me if I missed some relevant info about that, but I don't see the Shevshenko analogy).

I think that when a player works well like Torres, Rafa must get credit. If a 20M signing up doesn't work well, it's also Rafa's responsability. All that said, I'm far from sure Keane has been a mistake even if he hasn't started the way we'd like. Let's see what happens.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:09 pm

bigmick wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
s@int wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:TBH I'm completely stumped when it comes to Rafa's apparent "attitude" to Robbie Keane. Having agreed a £20 million fee for the fella you would expect Rafa to be going all out to support, encourage and get the best from the player. Instead it sometimes seems that Rafa's been landed with a player that he didn't really want in the first place, almost shades of Mourinho and Schevchenko. Is it a case of Rafa expecting Keane to do a Torres and immediately step up to the plate and having failed to do so he's now on Rafa's sh'it list ? .

Not noted for putting an arm around players I'm wondering if Rafa has got it wrong on this one, not defending Keane here, but the world and it's dog expected better things from Keane at LFC, whats gone wrong ? surely Rafa bears some responsibility for it ? .

I wonder if Keane wasn't exactly top of Rafa's list of buys in the summer. Maybe he wanted Barry much more? Parry gets the list and goes for the one he likes best, rather than the one Rafa needs most? Pays so much for Keane that we can't afford the others Rafa was after, and totally blows Rafa's transfer plans out the window.

Mate that is exacly as I see it, from reading between the lines and from what has been said Rafa wanted Barry as his big signing and ended up with Keane who was more Parry choice.
The only reason I havent said so is because I know certain people would have seen it as me just trying to remove blame from Rafa so I kept it to myself.
The other thing is when people say how could he spend 20mill on Keane, well HE didnt, Rafa plays no part in monetary negotiations and if he did I dout he would have spent so much on someone who wasnt even his number one target.But obviously thats just my opinion.

I was wondering how long this theory would take to surface. When you say the reason you didn't say it Rushie (this thing about Keane been Parry's choice not Rafa's) was because you felt certain people would view it as an attempt to "remove blame" from Rafa, you were spot on.

The "Parry theory" is an attempt to remove blame for a misfiring 20 million quid transfer from Rafa, nothing more, nothing less

I ask you this, knowing Rafa as we do, does anybody seriously believe Parry would be able to spend 20 million quid on a player who Rafa doesn't want without the manager at the very least kicking off, and in all probability fecking off?

No, Keane was Rafa's choice and it's down to him and the player to try their very best to make the thing work. 20 million quid is a sh!tload of money, and we just happen to be fully engaged in the title race (oops) so sorting it out is far more impotant than any individuals ego. Step one, centainly while Torres is injured is playing Keane, regardless (yep, I mean regardless) of how he plays.

Spot on mick ,Keane is defo rafa's man . Just like morientes ,crouch ,bellamy and whoever else .
The thing is though (and i'm only going on what's happend in the past ) the price tag means bugger all , he'll ship them out if there not up to it in his opinion.
Now wether you think that's taking stupid risks with big money i don't know .
All is i'll say is he doesn't p!ss about if he thinks there not good enough . I'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong , but he hasn't lost much money on the players he's bought and then shipped out , and i'll wager he won't lose out if he gets rid of keane .
Which i sincerely hope he doesn't because i still think he can do the business for us . He hasn't had much of a chance with Torres in all honesty.

by **Number 9** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:29 pm

Of course Rafa wanted Keane ffs its daft to suggest otherwise.And at the time the vast majority on here seemed made up.In fact off the top of my head the only two posters I can remember saying the thought he would be a flop are Ciggy and Leon.
Is he a flop?...well only a liar would say up until now he's been anything else but a flop.
But that does not mean he cannot come good,he's a quality player.

There are I'm sure things going on behind the scenes between him and Rafa.I think Rafa has pulled him aside and said,listen take a couple off weeks out and get your head right,we have Torres coming back soon,you'se can play together and make it work.
To me Keanes sheer desperation and frustration on the pitch at times was embarrassing.He was trying way to hard and it just was'nt happening.
Maybe the couple of weeks off will do him good and he can start over and be the player he is,cause the vast majority of his performances up until now have been light years from what he is capable of.There have been one or two glimpses,the two goals in a game and the two inch perfect balls he played in another that had commentators raving and even managed something near a compliment from some on here that were on his back.

But at the end of the day Rafa chose him because he has been fantastic at Spurs and felt he would fit right in..to say Parry brought him in is a joke!

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