Debate - Sensibly

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Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:30 pm

SupitsJonF wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:1.)  Fuck no.  Separation of church and state.  If im going to pay for education I'll pay for it where its not a brainwashing school.

Good and evil. Right and wrong.

Moral example:

A poor man walks across the street where he shoots an old woman in the face and then steals her money. That's evil, right? Or is it just basic survival?

You tell me. If you think it's evil, then where do you think this moral feeling comes from? If you are familiar with the concept of evil, then you are familiar with the concept of religion.

Should these moral examples be taught to children, and adults alike, to better their character if possible? I say yes. What do you think? The concept of forgiveness, well, that's another complex matter that religion helps us to deal with. I wouldn't exactly call these qualities in a person "brainwashed", would you?

I'm not saying religion is awful, they should continue to go to sunday school, hebrew school, etc.  But taxes should not pay for a catholic school, a jewish school, a muslim school, etc.  If people want religion/private based schools, they should shell out the extra cash.

Isn't that why the Catholic church and other religions rely on their own funding? Either way, taxes fund schooling, and religion is taught in most schools as a subject. Should it be pulled out of the system altogether? Absolutely not. Religion is part of history, and vice versa. In either case, it should be there as someone's choice.

But if you tax it its not someones choice.  A vast majority of people go to public schools opposed to religious schools, so should the majority of people have to pay more taxes just for another choice, even though there is a high probability they won't even use this choice the slightest bit?

Also, I think being civilized plays a huge part in morals.  Otherwise that would be like saying if someone is brought up atheist they would'nt have morals.  But being civilized as a human also gives us morals.  I believe both play a part.

With all due respect, if you wish to live in a Christian Country, you will pay taxes towards the upkeep and longevity of that religion, whether you believe in it or not.

And what would be a list of countries, by religion?

England is a Christian Country. You can't seriously expect me to sit here and list every country under the Christian church and all of its branches?

Although we tolerate the worshiping of other religions, the last time I checked, there was a "Church of England". That is why Councils use our money to put Christmas decorations up. It's why Schools have Nativity plays. It's why Christmas Carols are sung in schools and Council Halls.

Yes, we indulge others, but the country itself is still predominantly Christian, even if it is seen as an embarrassment by some.

(The reason a lot of people have "lost" their faith is because it's no longer rammed down peoples throats. Muslims, etc, are so deeply religious for the opposite.)

IMO, of course.
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Postby JoeTerp » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Thank God America isn't a Chrisitan country.
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Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:04 pm

JoeTerp wrote:Thank God America isn't a Chrisitan country.

Guess again...
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Postby SupitsJonF » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:21 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Thank God America isn't a Chrisitan country.

Guess again...

I wasn't asking in a mean tone, but I never thought of a non middle eastern country a religious country.  I think Spain is heavily influenced by religion, and now I know England is, but I never considered America a christian country.  I can see the majority being christian, but there is also lots of jews, catholics, tons of atheists, muslims, hindus, even some of them scientologists  :D.  Would be interesting to read up on, but I don't think any one of these categories would break the 51% mark.
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Postby JoeTerp » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:36 pm

wouldn't matter if it did, and its def over 50% christian by the way.  Its written in the consitution to separate church and state and in the first amendment grants us the freedom of religion as well as the freedom FROM religion.
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Postby Emerald Red » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:46 pm

SupitsJonF wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Thank God America isn't a Chrisitan country.

Guess again...

I wasn't asking in a mean tone, but I never thought of a non middle eastern country a religious country.  I think Spain is heavily influenced by religion, and now I know England is, but I never considered America a christian country.  I can see the majority being christian, but there is also lots of jews, catholics, tons of atheists, muslims, hindus, even some of them scientologists  :D.  Would be interesting to read up on, but I don't think any one of these categories would break the 51% mark.

I put that one word in bold there for the reason being that I hope it was a mistake on your behalf bunching it in with all the rest of those "non-Christian" religions. You're aware that the Catholic faith is basically the biggest Christian faith there is, right?
Last edited by Emerald Red on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SupitsJonF » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:51 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Thank God America isn't a Chrisitan country.

Guess again...

I wasn't asking in a mean tone, but I never thought of a non middle eastern country a religious country.  I think Spain is heavily influenced by religion, and now I know England is, but I never considered America a christian country.  I can see the majority being christian, but there is also lots of jews, catholics, tons of atheists, muslims, hindus, even some of them scientologists  :D.  Would be interesting to read up on, but I don't think any one of these categories would break the 51% mark.

I put that one word in bold there for the reason being that I hope it was a mistake on your behalf bunching it in with all the rest of those "non-Christian" religions. You're aware that the Catholic faith is basically the biggest Christian faith there is, right?

Good find, I was just naming stuff of the top of my head.  Can't hurt to proof read every now and then, but with finals now and my 2 hours of sleep a night these errors are becomming more common.   :D

ONE MORE TO GO  :buttrock
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Postby metalhead » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:04 pm

Supits, there are middle eastern countries who are non-religious countries.

My country, is non-religion country, its laws is based on secreterianism and political parties (which is run by different religion).
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Postby SupitsJonF » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:12 pm

metalhead wrote:Supits, there are middle eastern countries who are non-religious countries.

My country, is non-religion country, its laws is based on secreterianism and political parties (which is run by different religion).

I was mainly referring to Israel, did not mean to offend anyone!  I need to sleep before I come here  :p
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Postby Sabre » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:16 pm

ISpain is heavily influenced by religion,


:D Supits, you mean in the past right? The typical Spaniard is very cynical towards catholicism.

For a young Spaniard it's not fashionable to be Catholic. Note that our last dictator's policy was ultra conservative and ultracatholic, so in current times, there's still a lot of grudges against anything coming from the church.

Oficially, my country is non-religious. If you wish, you can ask part of your taxes goes to the catholic church, but just as an option, if you wish this percentage will go somewhere else.

Even when you see  in southern spain this devotion to Mary the Virgin, it's not true catholic devotion, but devotion to a local Mary of that town.

No, the only influential religion in my country is football really, you won't see a parliament session interrupted for religious reasons, but you can see that for a football match.
Last edited by Sabre on Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby metalhead » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:Ireland? im unsure of this, maybe MH can elaborate but seeing how religious the muslims are, im sure in countries like Saudi Arabia, that is being exercised.

The gulf areas are mainly run by Islamic laws, most notably Saudi Arabia. Their curiculem in school is based on the Koran, Islamic history, Islamic and general science. They teach you in the early ages the ways of the prayers and Islamic morals and values. I studied most of my elementary education in the Saudi system, memorizing different Koran verses, understanding them and reading them out load to the class. The thing is, back then there was a rise in extremisim, and some of our teachers who taught these views are extremist individuals, my parents were frightned that I would become brainwashed in extremist idiologies, so we moved back to Lebanon, and finished my school education in an American school there.

However, what Im hearing now, extremism in schools in saudi arabia have decreased because alot of the owners of those schools have become aware of whats happening and they want to have an open minded environment for students studying the Saudi Arabian system.
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Postby metalhead » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:18 pm

SupitsJonF wrote:
metalhead wrote:Supits, there are middle eastern countries who are non-religious countries.

My country, is non-religion country, its laws is based on secreterianism and political parties (which is run by different religion).

I was mainly referring to Israel, did not mean to offend anyone!  I need to sleep before I come here  :p

You didnt offend anyone :D

Israel is based on jewish laws.
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Postby SupitsJonF » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:20 pm

Sabre wrote:
ISpain is heavily influenced by religion,


:D Supits, you mean in the past right? The typical Spaniard is very cynical towards catholicism.

For a young Spaniard it's not fashionable to be Catholic. Note that our last dictator's policy was ultra conservative and ultracatholic, so in current times, there's still a lot of grudges against anything coming from the church.

Oficially, my country is non-religious. If you wish, you can ask part of your taxes goes to the catholic church, but just as an option, if you wish this percentage will go somewhere else.

I think most young of countries aren't really geared towards religion.  But Lando mentioned religious countries, but I never thought of any country as religious, other than Israel and maybe a few others.  The reason I mentioned Spain was because of the past actually, beautiful cathedrals there.
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Postby Sabre » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:45 pm

Ah yes, you're spot on there. Understanding Spain's past without religion is impossible.

And yes, beautiful cathedrals. In my town we have a shíty one of the XVI century, because the English burnt the old one while liberating the town from the french. :D

But in deeper Spain you have authenthic architecture beauties.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:13 pm

Sabre wrote:Ah yes, you're spot on there. Understanding Spain's past without religion is impossible.

And yes, beautiful cathedrals. In my town we have a shíty one of the XVI century, because the English burnt the old one while liberating the town from the french. :D

But in deeper Spain you have authenthic architecture beauties.

Sabre is Basque is different kind of religion?
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