Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 pm

Erm this thread said your thoughts Stu , Well youve said your thoughts an some have had the same thoughts as you . But you do get a few you know who dont have the same thoughts as you. They have minds an thoughts of there own.

Im being thoughtful here like :laugh:

You sound like my bitters son sometimes never :censored:

happy with anything.

Youve actualy made some good points in your opener an all :;):

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:56 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
john craig wrote:All that said we are still top of the league and with a far better squad than Benitez took over 5 years ago. We have also done it this season without the best striker in the world, and with Torres to come back in the new year we are not dead and buried yet, far from it.

If we beat Arsenal next week, watch general opinion COMPLETELY sway once again in favour of Benitez the 'tactical genius' and in favour of us bringing home number 19 this season.

When you see Madrid having to turn to Ramos, it goes to show that we would have real difficulty replacing Benitez with an equal or better manager at the moment, they are few and far between. We're top of the league going into Christmas for the first time since Benitez took charge and rotation has largely been binned to the relief of many, why in good fu.ck would you get rid of Benitez now??? Get a clue.

Some good points there John.

I for one would never have believed we would be top of the league without our main goal threat. when Torres comes back it will be like a new signing for us in the second half of the season.

I believe we've seen the best of Chelsea. Their free flowing football, scoring, I just don't think they have another gear. United are stuttering. They've hit top gear more than once this season, and faltered on a few occasions. Arsenal, well, their form speaks for itself. Erratic. Reminds me of our form under Evans at times. As for us, can you say we've even hit top gear once this season in terms of performance? No. I can't. Yet we're there, and without the big guns on several occasions in massive games. Some people just won't give us the credit we deserve, and the amazing thing is, that it's our own so called fans.

i Know it is unbelivable the amount of people who want to slag us off when we are still top.Imagine any team being without torres and still being top there is alot to be optimistic about and we normally have a strong second half of the season under Rafa :eyebrow

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:58 pm

I would like to see a few more balanced opinions on here to be honest, there aren't enough of them. I'd say there are too many posters sticking the boot in, calling the manager clueless or focusing their criticisms on certain players to the point where they are simply venting. In reaction to this, there are just as many responding with the "look at the league, the results tell the whole story, how can you effing complain" argument. The thread starter from Stu (who was obviously having a milder moment) is a good one and is a lot more balanced many of his previous posts. I was VERY frustrated with the manager yesterday, I couldn't fathom his substitutions, I didn't understand his post-match comments about the game being too open, and i am guessing he told the team to ease back in his half-time team talk which, in my opinion, allowed them back into the game. I've had a whinge in a couple of the threads, I don't see a problem with that and maybe a few of the 'manager beyond criticism' guys are too quick to jump on posters who are critical.

However, I'm still happy about the way the season is going, believe we can play a lot better and I remember that Benitez teams have often gone through spells like we are having now only to turn it around with winning runs later in the season.

Being top of the league doesn't mean the manager is above criticism but it is a pretty good defense against those who are highly critical.

by **Petar** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:02 pm

I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:09 pm

Petar wrote:I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

Erm i thought thats what the manager was there for to give instructions . Whats the point of havin a bench then they might aswell all go an sit in the stands.

An if Babel needs to ask the manager what to do while hes on the pitch he shouldnt be on the :censored:

pitch in the first place.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:10 pm

It's a good well thought out post by stu ,with some justifiable critisim . Rafa has made mistakes of course he has ,but imo he's got a hell of a lot more right . The one thing that i just can't get my head around is to sack him now . No matter how you think we've got to the top of the league ,we have . It would be complete and utter madness to sack him now , if you don't think we are challenging for the title then fair enough , but what is going to happen if we leave it until the end of the season . Well we will finish no worse of than forth , we may do well in the champions league and FA cup . If we do sack him now , what will happen . Will we have a better chance of winning the league and cups this season , no way imo . If you've lost your faith in Rafa ,well that's your perogative , but surley it's only cutting your nose off to spight your face to sack him now .

by **Alex G.** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:10 pm

Petar wrote:I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

Sensationalist argument. Typical of The Sun, typical of the gutter press.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:20 pm

Petar wrote:I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

This is exactly the type of post i am talking about. Your whole point is ENTIRELY speculative on account of it being about Rafa's ego and on you KNOWING when the manager gives his players freedom, and when he doesn't!?!? Despite this you state it in a "matter of fact" way as if you have just written the bare faced facts. Too many posters voice their opinions in exactly the same way and that's why this place is a walking talking argument.

On Xbox Live you can block out the idiots that talk trash on the head-mic. If only we could set that up here coz there are lot of posters who's opinions I hold in high regard on here, on it's day this is a cracking board to talk football but you need a garbage truck to sift through the dross.

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:26 pm

Petar wrote:I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

fascinating read as always petar, you do make me laugh.I won't bother making what you just said look stupid because you do that well enough on your own.

I see your nearly at the big 100 stage already!! :bowdown

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:27 pm

One of my worries this season, and probably the real reason why I don't feel as confident as I should about us winning the league this season, is the shadow the mancs cast. We all know they are capable of going on a run of wins that sweeps the rest of the challengers aside. FFS they did it last season after a terrible start. Thats why I am so upset that we haven't "made hay while the sun shines" and why the dropping of so many home points against "beatable" teams has hurt so much.

Maybe over the last 20 years or so my paranoia about the mancs has become too great, and I am over estimating their ability to hit form and roll the league up, but IF we had won those 4 bad results and we were now 14 points clear of the mancs ........ I would rest a little easier at night and be hoping we would scrape the league by maybe a point or two!

Maybe this season the mancs won't go on a run ? I wouldn't bet my house against it though. Thats why, while the mancs are struggling a little bit, every point we can get in the bag more than them is like gold dust, every chance we blow, every point we drop is so very painful.

I don't care whether it's Rafa's fault, the players fault, or even the fans fault, we can't keep throwing points away and hoping our rivals will follow suit, sooner or later they won't and then we will be saying well we were top for a while

by **andy_g** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:27 pm

Petar wrote:As I said 100 times

in only 96 posts?

by **calkop** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:51 am

I can't believe what I am reading on here. We are top of the league at almost the halfway point and everyone is bickering and complaining about the littlest things. I was totally upset after the game yesterday, but come on, this is crazy.

Yes our left back is :censored:

and the the team is not playing great at times, but the same can be said of our rivals. Chelsea are not as watertight at the back as they have been and united seem not to be able to score goals like in the past. We are in with a shout! Instead of worrying about united going on a run why are we not thinking of ourselves actually playing well for a run of games and brushing teams aside. All we have to do is keep getting better results than our rivals and we will win. The aim of the league is to score more points than all of the other teams, and the last time I checked we are doing that!

Rafa baffles me at times. How Kuyt got 90 minutes and keane never came on I will never know. But this is no time to start thinking of sacking him!!! Are you lot out of you f-ing minds!!!! Come on, things are going in the right direction.

Soon we will find our true form and this league will be ours to lose. Come on! Keep believing this can be our year. Anfield needs to be like it was yesterday at the beginning of the match. It sounded awesome and that is how it should always be. Believe in our Reds and we could be champions. We of all people need to believe and transfer that belief to the players. Let our rivals and the press talk of our faults, we need to go from strength to strength. We are top of the pile even after our annual bad patch of form. The form will get better and we will come out on top!

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:21 am

john craig wrote:Don't agree that Benitez has taken us as far as he can. Do agree that his stubbornness is a problem and that overall his signings have been average at best.

Agree with this completly, i think its still a bit to early to write off Benitez yet, i mean were still top of the league and challenging for the champions league, which is what we all want.

There are some obvious problems though, the main one for me being the lack of quality in the squad. He has wasted good money on some poor signings. My other doubts are his baffling decisions in matches (the subs the other day FFS!), especially in the league when were in need of goal and he gives to much respect to completly average (which there are a lot of) teams in the premiership, i mean you need all your tactics vs Barcelona away not versus Fulham at home

The reason i wont throw the towell on him is there are still plenty of positives. Firstly we have improved since he has been here, a bit slower than i would have liked considering his first two excellent seasons, but there is steady improvement. Secondly the man is clearly capable of the brilliant, as seen in countless champions league games, against teams with superior players and good managers, i think weve beaten nearly all of Europes elite since Benitez has been here, something we only dreamed about pre Rafa. There have also been plenty of comebacks in the premiership and cups aswell.

Lastly the man is a class act, is great with the media and fans and clearly cares about the club and wants to bring us success.

by **Espionage** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:26 am

Fo Dne wrote:
Espionage wrote:Top of the league and complaining... I guess it was to be expected. Personally I would be happy if Rafa stays here for another 10 years and that opinion wont change.

I'll take a page out of Stu's book here: "form is temporary, class is permanent"

Rafa is not going to forget how to run his team, he is only going to get better. Rafa is class, no matter what short-term form shows. If we replace him we will lose everything we have built, and a betting man would bet on Gerrard finishing his career without that premier league medal. Maybe the current strangle hold that the top 4 of the English league has on European football is because of the relative stability of the managers.

Just give it a rest

Four nearly five years is short term?

Ok mate yeah!

I am just glad that you are not in charge, give Rafa his 10 year contract now so I can rest easy.

But seriously, we are a big club with a top manager (not just a top coach) and we would be stupid to mess with what is showing progress. You know, I dont think that you would even want Liverpool to win this year, you would take more pleasure from watching it crumble and not having to eat bitter humble pie. Don't worry, its a coping mechanism and many people on here use it to manage their expectations of their club.

No one doubts your knowledge of footy (some might disagree with some opinions) but you would have a better case for these arguments if they were not just after bitter results. Once you learn to stay on top of your emotions you will get more respect as a poster, because dooming and glooming at a time like this just reeks of someone who needs a punching bag for christmas.

Blow off your steam somewhere else

by **hello_red** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:32 am

If a challenge falls short this season (not so sure it will following results this weekend) I think blame should be left at Rafas door for this one. The lack of Torres who is our only goal poacher at the club is hurting us badly but Rafa is the manager and he decides who we buy.

Fo Dne I am a firm believer of only changing manager during the summer so the players get a full pre-season with whoever it is. So lets not be hasty.

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