Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:24 pm

I think its silly to offer him a new contract now half way through a make or break season, but equally its total madness to change manager half way through the season, with everything still to play for.

We should be concentrating on trying to win the league, not on off field maneuverings. Time enough to sit down and assess the situation at the end of the season.

BTW the players play for Liverpool FC, not for Rafa FC, and if they don't want to play for Liverpool FC with or without Rafa....... tough luck and good bye.

Personally I feel much more confident about Rafa this season, he has cut back on rotation, generally picked and played reasonable formations and overall done a good job in difficult circumstances. If he continues in the same vein for the rest of the season I would be delighted to see him rewarded with a new contract........just not half way through the season!

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:29 pm

Fo Dne wrote:Right, well I'll start by saying that I think its a good time to change. Obviously we're in a good position now, but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley. Also if you look at other teams, Everton haven't played well at all and are in the top half, Arsenal aren't the side they were... van der Sar is a year older at United and Chelsea are in somewhat of a transitional period.

When it comes to our manager though there are things for me that just don't work. I'll break it down into sections and try to be as balanced as possible.

His handling of the press:

This is something I can't really complain about. Rafa often says the right things and makes the right noises. He occassionally makes out we were better than we were and places a bit to much emphasis on control of the game but he generally gets this side of management spot on for me. Very rarely does he lose his cool.

Man management:

Now this is a sticky point for me. I'm a big believer that a good man manager can get alot more out of players. I believe thats the key to Mourinho's successes.

Rafa on the other hand is very cold and professional (or so many have said). Now obviously with certain players that doesn't have an effect, but other players and more insecure players (and people) can find this approach hard to deal with. I also think this isn't the right way to bring through youth players. Obviously being like this can have its plus points, I like the way he tells players when they're doing something wrong, I like the way Gerrard and Carragher have said he's quick to point out flaws in their game, but I also find it weird he seems to offer little in the way of encouragement. I firmly believe this can cause alot of problems in this country due to culture and the bringing up of players etc etc.

Tactial knowledge:

Absoloutely world class. No question on the face of the earth he knows what player should be doing what and tactically understands how to use players and get the very best out of them. He also reads the pattern of a game well and knows how to change it using substitutes. The sign of a world class coach. Also, I've seen him myself on the training ground at Melwood, he's very very hands on and is always trying to explain to players what he wants from them on the pitch.

Tactical decisions:

Absoloutely baffling at times. Bringing on Lucas for Gerrard, dropping players after they score or play well. Bringing on defenders and midfielders when you need a goal, taking off players just to give other players minutes on the pitch, taking off players when you're losing who shouldn't be taken off, woeful team selections and refusing to sub players just because the hole ground is calling for it and his undying love for the rubbish that is "Dirky boy".

Signings:

In general poor to average. Some he's payed top money for and got top players, others he's payed top money for and got rubbish, others he's paid decent money for and got decent players. I'm not impressed with his signings in general. I don't think we've adequately replaced Sami with a better or equal player, I don't believe we've replaced Riise or Finnan with better or equal players and Carragher's still there. Riena was an unbelievable signing, Rafa's best. In midfield its only now that really we're looking like we have a good midfield again, I think Rieira is a good player along with Alonso and obviously Stevie, but its took him 3 years to improve the side in this area and I'm not sure I'd take Riera over a fit Kewell. We still need a right winger aswell. Upfront I don't have an issue with the Keane signing what so ever, we paid alot more than he's worth but we got a player I felt we needed (shame he's not being used). Through out the years though I'm not impressed.

I firmly believe if we had the players there Rafa could shape them into a side thats formidable, but leaving him to sign them I don't think we'll ever see this.

Ego:

I firmly believe this is costing us points aswell. At times we've seen him defend the indefensible, we've seen him make decisions just to prove he's the boss. We've seen him give players a game just because he can and wants to and seen him leave players out just because he feels he can. We've also seen him more than once make decisions just to the crowd off (the Alonso for Mascherano sub the other week vs Fulham and the Keane decision yesterday). These things will ultimately cost us points over the season.

There is alot more but am tired, al finish it tomorrow chaps when I can type and think properly.

It's a good post mate, all the better for being more constructive than some of your posts over the years. Am stillbitterly dissapointed with yesterdays result.

Soz didn't text ya for that beer yesterday, didn't get to the ground till 2:40 plus haven't transferred your number to me new phone.

by **Effes** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:41 pm

Then there's Rafa's refusal to consider bringing Owen back, just when it could be
a signing to inspire us to our first title in years.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:48 pm

the match was VERY frustrating yesterday. We started well, let in two SOFT SOFT goals but then the crowd got into it and the lads responded brilliantly and with a bit of luck we could have gone in 3-2 up. At 2 nil down i would have taken the draw but at 2-2 after just 35 mins I was convinced we had it in the bag. After the break we simply took our foot off the throttle and let them grow back into the game. the Manager talked about them being dangerous on the counter but in truth there wasn't that much to worry about except our left-back and keeping Geovani on his weaker foot. Rafa's post match comments indicate he was just as worried about losing the game as winning. there were some good performances yestereday, Gerrard, Alonso and Masch all played well, Riera had his moments and Arbeloa got forward and (defensively) was everything Dossena is not. It drove me nuts to watch two players (Bennayoun and Kuyt) completely fade from the game while £31 million of replacement sat on the bench. Our lack of a big man cost us again, we got a lot of crosses into the box from Arbeloa and Riera but Turner and co were rock solid (he impresed me a lot) and we desperately needed a bit of guille and trickery. Whether you like them or not, Keane and Babel are both capable of providing it.

Am sure it's cropped up again in other threads but isn't it about time Stevie saw a bit of time on the right hand-side? Even if it just comes towards the end of games like yesterday? I would have liked to have seen 2 up top with him on the right at the 60-70 minute mark yesterday.

Rafa has always baffled with subs at times throughout his time at the club. At least 4-5 times a season he has me utterly bemused and yesterday was one of those days. He normally makes his sub around the 60 min mark but yesterday he waited till the 75th min.

On the flip side though, there have been several time sin the past where I have thought, 'he's lost the plot completely', 'we're playing shi...te and there's no turning it around' only for the team to hit a purple patch and go on a winning run. unfortunately those winning runs have usually come at a time when we are already out of the running. That's not the case this year so I think it's hasty and sensless to talk about letting the guy go.

by **tubby** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:04 pm

I know Rafa never had any beefs with Robbie but he was clever enough to bring him back so im he will realise the same. But I think before that we need Michael to say himself he wants back.

by **GYBS** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:16 pm

sack rafa while top of the table ? Pathetic . When did liverpool fans become fans of newcastle ? Constantly wanting a manager sacked ? ! And whats this about rafas refusal to resign owen ? Did he come out and say he doesnt want owen ? Owen had his chance twice to play for rafa and both times he decided on other clubs ? Now he is the saviour ? ! Yeah lets go give a 29 year old major injury prone striker 130 grand a week to keep degen company ?

by **Petar** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:21 pm

roberto green wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Right, well I'll start by saying that I think its a good time to change.

I'll start with who can we possibly replace Benitez with who will be better than him.

There is no way especially in this financial climate at the moment that we can improve on him cos for a start if he was to get sacked or leave while we are in this shambolic position of top of the table and champions league group(sorry for the sarcasm)we would have to appoint someone else.
We would then have a new manager with new idea's
we would then have a manager with a new 5 year plan.
We would have then have a manger who would have to replace Pepe Reina,Torres,Macharano and possibly a few others because all would probably follow and it wouldn't be easy replacing these players...................................

It is easy to point the blame at Benitez and he does wind me up and pisses me right off but i certainly don't see us improving if we lost him and i think we have currently got our best team since we last won the league and don't forget if any team had Torres out they would certainly been a lot weaker and maybe just maybe if he had been fit,the last 3 games we had drawn at home could of been won and we would of been 6-9 points clear by now.then this thread certainly wouldn't exist.

some fans are so fickle JUDGE AT THE END OF THE SEASON NOT HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON WITHOUT THE BEST STRIKER IN EUROPE WHILE WE ARE CURRENTLY TOP OF THE LEAGUE AND QUALIFIED FOR THE NEXT STAGE OF EUROPE!!!

Hahaha,and you think that if Torres wants to go we will not get 40 milion pounds which we would use for another top class player. You are disgrace

by **Petar** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:23 pm

Sabre wrote:Contract Lenght: 2013.

Consequences of an early sack: 15M and having to make a new contract with someone else, not to mention that with a new manager some players may have doubts to stay.

So considering the first line of the post, I think it's pointless to expect he leaves anytime soon. It was all right to discuss it recently or yesteryear, but right now? we'd better discuss football rathen than the continuity of Benitez. You always have the thread of depression if you're not too happy about the new contract.

so and Ramos get loads of money in Spurs. If we made mistake,we should pay 15 milions to him. I don`t know if we should sack Rafa at the end of the season,but 15 milion is not the end of the world

by **Petar** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:28 pm

s@int wrote:I think its silly to offer him a new contract now half way through a make or break season, but equally its total madness to change manager half way through the season, with everything still to play for.

We should be concentrating on trying to win the league, not on off field maneuverings. Time enough to sit down and assess the situation at the end of the season.

BTW the players play for Liverpool FC, not for Rafa FC, and if they don't want to play for Liverpool FC with or without Rafa....... tough luck and good bye.

Personally I feel much more confident about Rafa this season, he has cut back on rotation, generally picked and played reasonable formations and overall done a good job in difficult circumstances. If he continues in the same vein for the rest of the season I would be delighted to see him rewarded with a new contract........just not half way through the season!

yes

by **GYBS** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:30 pm

15 million is not the end of th world ? ! Do you have a clue about what is going on in the world and liverpool football club ? And i would rather have torres than 40 mil myself .

by **roberto green** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:57 pm

Petar wrote:
roberto green wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:Right, well I'll start by saying that I think its a good time to change.

I'll start with who can we possibly replace Benitez with who will be better than him.

There is no way especially in this financial climate at the moment that we can improve on him cos for a start if he was to get sacked or leave while we are in this shambolic position of top of the table and champions league group(sorry for the sarcasm)we would have to appoint someone else.
We would then have a new manager with new idea's
we would then have a manager with a new 5 year plan.
We would have then have a manger who would have to replace Pepe Reina,Torres,Macharano and possibly a few others because all would probably follow and it wouldn't be easy replacing these players...................................

It is easy to point the blame at Benitez and he does wind me up and pisses me right off but i certainly don't see us improving if we lost him and i think we have currently got our best team since we last won the league and don't forget if any team had Torres out they would certainly been a lot weaker and maybe just maybe if he had been fit,the last 3 games we had drawn at home could of been won and we would of been 6-9 points clear by now.then this thread certainly wouldn't exist.

some fans are so fickle JUDGE AT THE END OF THE SEASON NOT HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON WITHOUT THE BEST STRIKER IN EUROPE WHILE WE ARE CURRENTLY TOP OF THE LEAGUE AND QUALIFIED FOR THE NEXT STAGE OF EUROPE!!!

Hahaha,and you think that if Torres wants to go we will not get 40 milion pounds which we would use for another top class player. You are disgrace

I'm a disgrace :wwww

Do you think if torres was to be sold we would be able to spend the money from him with our financail situation the yanks would swallow it up,

Anyway ther is only one disgrace on here and that's you i think your a lonely person looking for people to show you attention,

There is sites out there for you you know :laugh:

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:57 pm

GYBS wrote:And whats this about rafas refusal to resign owen ? Did he come out and say he doesnt want owen ?

yes he did.

by **GYBS** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:06 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:And whats this about rafas refusal to resign owen ? Did he come out and say he doesnt want owen ?

yes he did.

has he ? Great news . We can forget about the injury prone has been then .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:19 pm

GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:And whats this about rafas refusal to resign owen ? Did he come out and say he doesnt want owen ?

yes he did.

has he ? Great news . We can forget about the injury prone has been then .

we NEED owen. kuyt cant score to save his life. he would make a great defender for the opponents though.

by **tubby** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:24 pm

GYBS wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
GYBS wrote:And whats this about rafas refusal to resign owen ? Did he come out and say he doesnt want owen ?

yes he did.

has he ? Great news . We can forget about the injury prone has been then .

He also came out and said we wouldnt be signing Luis Garcia before that transfer went through. Im not saying the same thing is going to happen but never believe exactly what you hear/see.

At the end of the day Owen would cost less than 2M and he knows if he came back he wouldn't expect 130K per week. But even then for whatever wages he will get he always scores wherever he goes. Look at how many draws we have had and how many of those could have been wins had more chances been taken.

It's easy to speak in terms of what if but I honeslty think if we had Owen this season we would be sitting at least 5 or 6 points clear of Chelsea by now with all the points we have dropped.

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