How long as he got? - AKA "Rafa's Last Chance" thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby SundanceKid » Wed May 28, 2008 2:40 am

bigmick wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:We really should have had the league this year. We just had a horrible series of results in the winter, a lot of which could have easily been avoided. Draw after draw after draw.

Just occasionally you post something extremely odd, and this is a good example. It leads me to believe that either you are a) not very knowledgeable about the game of association football or b) a wind-up merchant.

If it is a) then it's no problem of course, like the rest of us you'll kind of pick it up as you go along. If it's b) then when is the great unveiling ceremony. You know the "tee-hee I had you all fooled" revelation (I do enjoy those).

For the record, your post is palpably nonsense. Firstly to say "we should have had the league this year" is just daft, and secondly having a "horrible series of results in the Winter" is a bit like moaning about the heat going up into the sky when you light a camp fire. On the one hand it's a simple question of physics, on the other it's simply that that's when we play in England.

Well....nvm

'Tee hee I had you fooled!'
"Cut my veins open and I bleed Liverpool red"
Image
User avatar
SundanceKid
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:39 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby 66-1112520797 » Wed May 28, 2008 12:52 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Anyway I'm back off to Oz where the grass is definaely greener, when I get back I'm gonna have a rant about how s.hit this country has become.

Engerland's staunchest defender has grown disillusioned and will soon favour us with a tirade?  I tingle in anticipation.  :laugh:

I wouldnt favour you Bobby dont flatter yourself moose.  :D

Can I ask, whats a title challenge ?  :laugh:
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Wed May 28, 2008 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
66-1112520797
 

Postby Emerald Red » Wed May 28, 2008 1:04 pm

SundanceKid wrote:We really should have had the league this year. We just had a horrible series of results in the winter, a lot of which could have easily been avoided. Draw after draw after draw.

To think, a mere result at home against the Mancs would have swung the balance 6 points in favor of us and the eventual league outcome. That's finishing within 5 points, people. Take into consideration a few daft draws where we should have won, and this league could easily have been ours. It's marginal. So close, yet so far. It is not impossible to win the league any time soon like some people are saying. We are not that far off.
Image
User avatar
Emerald Red
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7289
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:22 pm
Location: Ireland

Postby Emerald Red » Wed May 28, 2008 1:09 pm

bigmick wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:We really should have had the league this year. We just had a horrible series of results in the winter, a lot of which could have easily been avoided. Draw after draw after draw.

Just occasionally you post something extremely odd, and this is a good example. It leads me to believe that either you are a) not very knowledgeable about the game of association football or b) a wind-up merchant.

If it is a) then it's no problem of course, like the rest of us you'll kind of pick it up as you go along. If it's b) then when is the great unveiling ceremony. You know the "tee-hee I had you all fooled" revelation (I do enjoy those).

For the record, your post is palpably nonsense. Firstly to say "we should have had the league this year" is just daft, and secondly having a "horrible series of results in the Winter" is a bit like moaning about the heat going up into the sky when you light a camp fire. On the one hand it's a simple question of physics, on the other it's simply that that's when we play in England.

Bit harsh, Mick, but I see your point. I think the lad is just posting his thoughts on wishful thinking without actually thinking it through and explaining.
Image
User avatar
Emerald Red
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 7289
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:22 pm
Location: Ireland

Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed May 28, 2008 6:41 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
Look at the team which won the Champions' League. Quite peobably the cheapest side to EVER win the big one.


Yes, with mostly Houllier players.

He has spent millions after that, and with what ? 4th spot, oh yes, all is fine and dandy.

So you'd be happy with the following team trotting out next season, then?:

                                    Dudek

               Finnan    Carragher   Hyypia      Traore

Garcia            Gerrard                   Alonso           Riise

                            Baros      Kewell.

But werent you happy with that team winning the CL  ???

Or was it Rafa was just happy with ? Look Alonsos on the teamsheet.

If there is a more pointless post to be found anywhere on these boards, I will be very suprised.

I see that for some people, even a poorly-timed dig comes above the facts...
Image
Image

Rafa Benitez - An unfinished Legend.
User avatar
Lando_Griffin
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 10633
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Postby Lando_Griffin » Wed May 28, 2008 6:50 pm

s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:You know full well that cup competitions are different to the league. You can't compare 38 games (probably 32 of which are against sh*thouse teams that try and stifle the life out of the game), and 12 against the cream of World football. You just can't.

Which is why I keep referring back to our league performances rather than the two CUPS which we have won mate.
No team wins every match - it's almost impossible to.

No one is expecting or asking him to win every match, I just want him to win enough matches to make us challenge or win the league (He can lose 10 games for me as long as we win the league)
As for Barnsley - they beat Chelsea, too, don't forget.


That still doesn't excuse us losing does it? We have been knocked out 2 out of 4 times now by lower league opposition.

As a further note, we lost 4 matches in the league last year - 1 less than the champions, and we also closed the gap considerably on the 2006-07 table.


But still finished with 6 less points than we achieved 2 seasons ago!

I know how strongly you feel about Rafa mate and I don't want to denigrate his achievements, I do think however that its now time he put up or shut up in the league. A title challenge with the players we have should be almost a given.

Can you honestly say that our team has played to its best level consistantly in ANY season under Rafa. We have proven we are good enough to have challenged with good runs in 2006 and towards the end of last season, what we need now is to maintain that form, not necessarily another £200million on new players.

I'd like to see us win it just as much as anyone else, but I have to be realistic - we've deficiencies in creativity and goalscoring throughout the team, with the exception of 2 or 3 individuals.

Stick a couple of Aimar's in the side, with a fullback who'll chuck 8 or 9 goals in throughout the season, and a winger who reaches something like 15, and we're not far off.

Sadly, these players cost a f*cking fortune - money we just don't appear to have.
Image
Image

Rafa Benitez - An unfinished Legend.
User avatar
Lando_Griffin
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 10633
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Postby SundanceKid » Thu May 29, 2008 5:00 am

Emerald Red wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:We really should have had the league this year. We just had a horrible series of results in the winter, a lot of which could have easily been avoided. Draw after draw after draw.

To think, a mere result at home against the Mancs would have swung the balance 6 points in favor of us and the eventual league outcome. That's finishing within 5 points, people. Take into consideration a few daft draws where we should have won, and this league could easily have been ours. It's marginal. So close, yet so far. It is not impossible to win the league any time soon like some people are saying. We are not that far off.

Exactly! We weren't as far as 4th place seems.
"Cut my veins open and I bleed Liverpool red"
Image
User avatar
SundanceKid
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:39 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 29, 2008 7:51 am

SundanceKid wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:We really should have had the league this year. We just had a horrible series of results in the winter, a lot of which could have easily been avoided. Draw after draw after draw.

To think, a mere result at home against the Mancs would have swung the balance 6 points in favor of us and the eventual league outcome. That's finishing within 5 points, people. Take into consideration a few daft draws where we should have won, and this league could easily have been ours. It's marginal. So close, yet so far. It is not impossible to win the league any time soon like some people are saying. We are not that far off.

Exactly! We weren't as far as 4th place seems.

We would have STILL finished 4th and 6 points behind Chelsea mate, so all your really saying is that it was our fault that the mancs won the league and that if we had beaten them at home - CHELSEA would have won it.

The fact is we didn't beat the mancs and didn't really come that close to beating them last season if we are honest.

I do think we are close and I am more hopeful than most that our team is almost good enough to win it, which is why I am probably more disappointed and more frustrated than most that we DIDN'T EVEN FKN CHALLENGE for the title.
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby 112-1077774096 » Thu May 29, 2008 9:45 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Sadly, these players cost a f*cking fortune - money we just don't appear to have.

money we could have if didn't waste it on squad players that are used to weaken the team during the rotation stage of the season
112-1077774096
 

Postby Bad Bob » Thu May 29, 2008 11:53 am

Bamaga man wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:Anyway I'm back off to Oz where the grass is definaely greener, when I get back I'm gonna have a rant about how s.hit this country has become.

Engerland's staunchest defender has grown disillusioned and will soon favour us with a tirade?  I tingle in anticipation.  :laugh:

I wouldnt favour you Bobby dont flatter yourself moose.  :D

Can I ask, whats a title challenge ?  :laugh:

Not sure...better get out your scientific calculator.  :;):  :D
Image
User avatar
Bad Bob
LFC Guru Member
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:03 pm
Location: Canada

Postby gerrards_right_foot » Thu May 29, 2008 1:15 pm

I am totally (not blindly, behind rafa) Think that the points totals over the last few year really show the progress. And the way that i think about it is.... If we sacked the RAF he will go to a Créme of europe club. your inters, AC, etc. But what kind of calibre of manager would we be able to attract... Harry Redknapp. Rafa is safe as houses for me, have alot of time for the guy as manager of liverpool. and under is watchful deady eye i feel the title be a when rather than an if.
gerrards_right_foot
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:34 am
Location: londonderry

Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 29, 2008 1:16 pm

While we are looking for excuses for failing to make a title challenge, maybe this will help! I was very surprised that our wage bill was lower than Arsenals, but no surprise who the top two are.


Image
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 29, 2008 1:22 pm

And what it means club by club :-

Originally Posted by Torygraph
What the Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance means for the top four and the rest of the Premier League.

Man Utd


1. Manchester United
Latest News:

The Glazers bought United for £777 million in May 2005, and at the end of the 2006/07 season they were £453 million in debt from bank borrowings - over half of the entire Premier League's total borrowings from banks - and £152 million in debt from other loans.

Although they have regained their Premier League crown, they have done so while spending less than Chelsea on wages.

They did record an eight per cent increase in wage payments between 05/06 and 06/07 but that increase was matched or exceeded by 14 of the other Premier League clubs during the same period.

And while their wages increased, their revenue has grown with it. In fact, their absolute growth in revenue over wage surplus was second only to Arsenal.

United are ranked above the benchmark "comfort level" for effective cost management, which is calculated by comparing wages to turnover ratio - the key performance indicator of a club's welfare. They are second only to Tottenham in this regard.

They have the second highest net assets in the League, after Arsenal, with £80 million assets, and they earn the most of all English clubs with £32 million generated through television deals.

They are predicted as having the highest operating profit over the next five years with an operating profit of £239.5 million. United are also second in the list of stadium utilisation for the 2007/08 season with an average turnout of 99.4 per cent of the 75,691 capacity.

While the club had a pre-tax loss of £62,575 in 2007, United earn more from two matches at Old Trafford than Wigan Athletic reap from an entire season of home games.

Chelsea


2. Chelsea

Chelsea have recorded the highest wage bill in the Premier League, hiking their player salaries by 17 per cent between 2005/06 and 2006/07.

The club also have the biggest debt. At the end of the 2006/07 season Chelsea had a net borrowing of £620 million, with a personal loan of £90 million from Roman Abramovich in that season alone, which brought his total investment in the club to £575 million and offset the club's losses after tax of £76 million.

Chelsea were ranked ninth in their stadium utilisation (bums on seats) this season, although it had improved from the previous season. Chelsea did bring in the second highest television payments - £30m for the 2006/07 season.

Arsenal


3. Arsenal

Arsenal recorded an eight per cent increase in their wage outgoings between 2005/06 and 2006/07, although in that season they had the highest surplus of cash after wages had been deducted from the club's revenue.

Arsenal also had the best stadium utilisation this season with 99.5 per cent of their 60,054 capacity used. It is just as well: Arsenal were the major stadium investors in 2006/07 with £34.2 million, while their pricing strategy this season did not increase on the previous one.

But the club have the third highest debt. At the end of 2006/07 their net borrowings stood at £268 million, with the second highest loans balances in the country. They are required to pay £19 million in net interest costs, but that is dealt with comfortably by revenues (match-day revenue doubled to £91 million in 2006/07 alone) generated by the move to the Emirates Stadium.

Also, by refinancing a £260 million loan, the club has reduced its annual debt service cost from £32 million to £20 million per annum. Moreover, the club is predicted to have an operating profit of £103.9 million over the next five years - the second highest in the country. Arsenal also lead Manchester United as the club with the most assets, put at £113 million at the end of the 2006/07 season.

Finally, according to 2006/07 figures, they bring in the third largest amount of money through television rights - £29 million.

Liverpool


4. Liverpool

As of summer 2007, Liverpool had a debt of £43 million in bank borrowings, and £13 million in other loans, although over the next five years they have a predicted operating profit of £98.4 million, the fourth highest in the country.

Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr bought Liverpool in March 2007 for £218.9 million but burdened the club with debt topping £105 million when their loan was refinanced in January. And the club's 13 per cent increase in wages from 2005/06 to 2006/07 has not been converted into greater success on the pitch in the Premier League.

However, the club were listed as having £20 million net assets before the beginning of last season, and had the third highest stadium utilisation – 98.8 per cent of their 44,721 capacity. Furthermore, they brought in £28 million through television money in 2006/07.


5. Everton:

Everton failed to raise enough revenue to cancel out their wage bill during 2006/07, and in fact were left with a deficit of £8.1 million, despite finishing sixth in the league and being well below the Premiership wage average. The club was also below the league average for stadium utilisation last season.

6. Aston Villa: Villa finished the 2006/07 season with the fifth highest assets in the country (£35 million) and increased their home match attendances to 94.8 per cent of their 40,375 capacity stadium. They were also one of the top six investors in facilities in that season, injecting £9.9 million. However, their wage expenditure exceeded the income generated from revenue, leaving them £1.2 million in deficit. The club also recorded £63 million of debt in the summer of 2007.

7. Blackburn While Blackburn have £21 million net assets, they were approaching the "danger level" after the 2006/07 season in their cost management, with 85 per cent wages to turnover.

8. Portsmouth Portsmouth utilised 97.9 per cent of their 19,905 capacity stadium in the last season, although they are critically close to Deloitte's "danger level" by spending large amounts on their wage bill, without being able to support it with revenues.

9. Man City City have the third highest net assets in the Premier League - £57 million at the end of the 2006/07 season, although they are £103 million debt. However, they are in a comfortable position regarding their wage to revenue ratio.

10. West Ham West Ham have £142 million of debt and, along with Newcastle, were the most notable under achiever with regards to wages in 2006/07. Their league position was 15, while they were they were outspent on wages by only five other clubs. This supports the view that the correlation between wages and on-pitch performance is weaker outside those clubs in the top four, and the relegation zone.

11. Tottenham Spurs are ranked top in the country for effective cost management, calculated by the key performance indicator wages to turnover ratio, and they generated £27 million from television rights in 2006/07 - fifth highest in the Premier League. They come third in the league in terms of surplus cash when wages have been deducted from their revenue, and also third on the predicted five year operating profit table with £70.2 million, as well as having the fourth highest stadium utilisation with 98.4 per cent of White Hart Lane's 35,699 capacity being filled on average. Finally, they had £49 million in net assets as of the end of the 2006/07 season.

12. Newcastle Newcastle, like West Ham, have generally under achieved in the league despite spending vast sums of money on wages. They finished the 2006/07 season 13th in the league, yet they were the fifth highest club when it came to player salaries. They also have £69 million of debt.

13. Middlesbrough

Middlesbrough were £85 million in debt at the end of the 2006/07 season, and are dangerously close to over-extending themselves with regards to wages.

14. Wigan Wigan sustained a £14 million deficit in 2007 as their revenue did not match their wages even closely. They are squarely in the "danger level" of cost management.

15. Sunderland

Sunderland won the Championship in 2006/07 with the highest wage bill in the league - a 37 per cent increase on the previous year, but look unlikely to be able to generate enough revenue from match-days as they have an average of just 89 per cent of their stadium capacity filled throughout the season.

16. Bolton Bolton were left with a £6 million deficit thanks to their wage bill in 2006/07, although they finished seventh in the league.

17. Fulham Fulham increased their average attendances to 93.4 percent of their 23,670 capacity stadium last season, but as of summer 2007 were £182 million in debt. The club spent £4.6 million on facilities in 2006/07, and were left with a £2.8 million deficit in their revenue after paying player salaries.

18. Reading The most drastic wage increase in the Premier League was recorded by Reading, who hiked their wage bill by 109 per cent between 2005 and 2007. They also spent £11 million on their stadium and facilities.

19. Birmingham Birmingham were the second highest in the Championship during the 2006/07 season, being promoted after spending the second highest amount on wages - a 21 per cent increase on the previous year.

20. Derby County Derby were £30 million in debt after the 2006/07 season, and were 125 per cent for cost effective management (55 per cent is considered safe, 100 per cent "dangerous").

Deloitte football finance review: Club-by-club Premier League analysis - Football News - Telegraph


Ripped from TLW
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

Postby Lando_Griffin » Thu May 29, 2008 6:19 pm

peewee wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Sadly, these players cost a f*cking fortune - money we just don't appear to have.

money we could have if didn't waste it on squad players that are used to weaken the team during the rotation stage of the season

Every team needs squad players.

Had Rafa been given £150m in a lump sum, he would have done what we'd all have liked and bought 7 or 8 top-class, 1st-choice  players.

Sadly, he was given the dollar in dribs and drabs, and thus had to buy 3rd or 4th-choices instead.
Image
Image

Rafa Benitez - An unfinished Legend.
User avatar
Lando_Griffin
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 10633
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Postby account deleted by request » Fri May 30, 2008 7:52 am

The thing I can't understand about all the arguments that our squad wasn't good enough and that we couldn't make a challenge because we needed to spend lots more money on players, is that RAFA said before the start of last season that we had a squad GOOD ENOUGH to challenge.

So are these people saying Rafa doesn't know what he's talking about, or did Rafa just FK UP with too many mistakes?
account deleted by request
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:11 am

PreviousNext

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e