Liverpool FC Forum

s@int wrote:

ConnO'var wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

NANNY RED wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Nanny, the reason it's paying off for Wenger now, is because he was always breaking them into the 1st team, I don't see Benitez doing this. If Fabrregas was in the Liverpool youth/reserve, would he of been a regular at 17/18? I doubt it. If these lads were going to be given a go, they'd be bedded in much quicker than they have been. Insua, who in my own opinion looks a real talent and is rated highly by many others on here, should of been given a chance this year, rather than expect him to be a world star from the word go next year. After all he can't do any worse than Aurellio.

Point made John but why did Raffa bring these kids in to the club then and he did bring most of the ressies in since hes been here surley not to say bye bye he must have seen something for the future . On the Fabregas bit i think with his talent any manager worth his salt would have had him in the first team and yes including Raffa . The young kid Ayala is looking good and although he is still very young and needs buildin up a bit Pacecho looks a fantastic prospect

Well Nanny, I agree that Benitez must of seen something in these young kids, but if they're that good, and I believe three or four are good enough to be 1st team members now, they should be given a go. Bed them into the side this season, especially since the league has gone for another year. Bed them in now and let them have experince for the start of next year, rather than come August, us having to use the excuse "they're kids with no experince" for three/four months. Bed them in NOW is what I'd rather see.

I would probably agree you with you John if we were already in 4th and had enough of a gap over the 5th place team. However, we are not.... and it is IMPERATIVE that we make the champions league next year from a financial standpoint regardless on whose the owner or manager for next year.

Bedding in these youngsters now in the league would be foolhardy IMHO. As the FA cup is the only other cup (besides the Champions League) that we are in contention for at the mo, I don't see how we could bed in the youngster in them competitions either...

Nah.... for me, the opportunity to bed in yougsters this season has long gone.

I agree with both of you to a point. I think if we progress in the CL we will need to rest players to give them an advantage against other teams that may be still playing for the title as well. So maybe we could risk one or two in certain league games.

If pushed I would say that its a lot more difficult now to risk kids with European qualification being so essential. So I would probably be happy to wait for better opportunities to blood them next season.

The problem is will there ever be a "right time".

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando one huge difference to your point. He's managing Liverpool now, not Valencia. What he did there and what he does here and two seperate arguements. What works at Valencia doesn't neccessarily work at Liverpool. Morientes springs to mind. So Benitez could win 10 consecutives spanish titles with his rotation method, it still won't work over here.

But surely there are teams who like to get physical, or are a "team" in the tru sense of the word in Spain?

(Or am I to believe that these "qualities" are only to be found within our very own island?)

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

I agree he is more likely, but even still - if he isn't ready, then it would be a mistake.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

I agree he is more likely, but even still - if he isn't ready, then it would be a mistake.

I keep saying it Lando, the only way to know if they're ready or not is to give them a sustained run in the side. If they're not ready by the end, then you know it's not going to happen. But if with each game they grow more and more, it saves you a ton of bread you would of forked out for some 2nd/3rd rate player from Spain.

Obviously you can't put all kids in, but a left back like Insua, next to Carra/Agger/Arebloa would be able to take confidence and know he has 3 worthy defenders covering any mistake he MAY make.

ConnO'var wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I see where you coming from ConnO'var and I suppose part of me agrees with you, however, it's the so called "ready players" who've got us in this position along with Benitez of course. So maybe the kids should be given a go and see if they can get us out of it. After all they have nothing to lose in being given a go. If they get a chance and get us 4th, they go down as instant heroes, if they're given a go and we end up 5th or below, then the kids gained experince and yet won't be blamed for the season failure because they were in a desperate position to begin with. Win-win for the kids, but maybe a loss for the club.

Scary thought John..... A loss for the club that I believe we can ill afford next season. With all the appalling issues that we have right now with the current ownership, DIC, funds, loans, debts and god only knows what else..... we cannot afford to be financially weak.

If we don't get into the Champions League next season, we can would have a tough time to do wel in the league as the money needed for players would dry up.

On the other hand, if we unearth a gem in amongst the youngsters, then we won't have to invest big..

Hmmm... a HUMONGOUS if though....
Quality players are hard to come by and the chances of one breaking through our youth ranks will require more than just ability on their part. They need to be ready in the head as well and that is tough.

To be fair however, I have not had a chance to watch the reserves as I'm so far away from home so you guys should be able to better gauge their potential.

I know what you're saying mate but it looks like the season is a failure (come 4th or not) it's a failure. So next season, are we going to put these kids in from day 1, or wait till the same stage next year and then say again "we're fighting for fourth (or with any luck fighting for the league, here's hoping) so we can't afford to put them in again". It's an on-going cycle, we either put them in now to get ready for next year, or we put them in from the opening game of next year. (Middlesbrough Away is my guess  )

taff wrote: Fair point Taff and right on all counts. Sorry for being a know all tw@t, and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. If I'm honest, you're even right about me always wanting to be right. Done me like a kipper you have mucker.

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

I agree he is more likely, but even still - if he isn't ready, then it would be a mistake.

I keep saying it Lando, the only way to know if they're ready or not is to give them a sustained run in the side. If they're not ready by the end, then you know it's not going to happen. But if with each game they grow more and more, it saves you a ton of bread you would of forked out for some 2nd/3rd rate player from Spain.

Obviously you can't put all kids in, but a left back like Insua, next to Carra/Agger/Arebloa would be able to take confidence and know he has 3 worthy defenders covering any mistake he MAY make.

I do agree - I too would like to see Insua in the first team, but I think that if he were good enough (or strong enough), he'd be playing.

I don't think it's to do with strenght in all fairness. Robbie Fowler was often told he was to weak to play at this level and he turned out alright. I think it must be talent or fear of giving him a go.

Unless of course you mean mentally strong enough, then I haven't the faintess where Insua is up to. 

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

I agree he is more likely, but even still - if he isn't ready, then it would be a mistake.

I keep saying it Lando, the only way to know if they're ready or not is to give them a sustained run in the side. If they're not ready by the end, then you know it's not going to happen. But if with each game they grow more and more, it saves you a ton of bread you would of forked out for some 2nd/3rd rate player from Spain.

Obviously you can't put all kids in, but a left back like Insua, next to Carra/Agger/Arebloa would be able to take confidence and know he has 3 worthy defenders covering any mistake he MAY make.

I do agree - I too would like to see Insua in the first team, but I think that if he were good enough (or strong enough), he'd be playing.

I don't think it's to do with strenght in all fairness. Robbie Fowler was often told he was to weak to play at this level and he turned out alright. I think it must be talent or fear of giving him a go.

Unless of course you mean mentally strong enough, then I haven't the faintess where Insua is up to. 

It's a bit different to the Fowler issue. If a striker gets pushed off the ball, the chance goes begging.

If a defender gets pushed off the ball, 9 times out of 10, you're a goal down.

But maybe it IS his mental condition. He could be a cocky little blurt who needs to mature a bit before he represents the best club in the World.

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Fair point Lando, but until they play against that level of standard. They'll never be ready for it surely?

Don't forget Insua played a few first team matches at the a*se-end of last season.

If he isn't ready, throwing him in at the deep end could wreck his future.

I know Insua played a few times last season, I've made this point meself elsewhere. With that, allbeit limited experince, he'd be the more obvious choice to be thrown in.

I agree he is more likely, but even still - if he isn't ready, then it would be a mistake.

I keep saying it Lando, the only way to know if they're ready or not is to give them a sustained run in the side. If they're not ready by the end, then you know it's not going to happen. But if with each game they grow more and more, it saves you a ton of bread you would of forked out for some 2nd/3rd rate player from Spain.

Obviously you can't put all kids in, but a left back like Insua, next to Carra/Agger/Arebloa would be able to take confidence and know he has 3 worthy defenders covering any mistake he MAY make.

I do agree - I too would like to see Insua in the first team, but I think that if he were good enough (or strong enough), he'd be playing.

I don't think it's to do with strenght in all fairness. Robbie Fowler was often told he was to weak to play at this level and he turned out alright. I think it must be talent or fear of giving him a go.

Unless of course you mean mentally strong enough, then I haven't the faintess where Insua is up to. 

It's a bit different to the Fowler issue. If a striker gets pushed off the ball, the chance goes begging.

If a defender gets pushed off the ball, 9 times out of 10, you're a goal down.

But maybe it IS his mental condition. He could be a cocky little blurt who needs to mature a bit before he represents the best club in the World.

Cocky little blurt, sounds like an Argie. 

I hear time and time again though, that Ashley Cole is the world's best left back (I don't agree with this 1 bit, Fabio Aurellio and John Arne Riise are twice the player Cole is  ) but even so, he's hardly built like a brick sh!t house, so is it vital for a left back to look like Frank Bruno?