Liverpool FC Forum

NANNY RED wrote:Sorry for going off subject but im knackerd now so im off to get my beauty sleep and dream of takeovers, Arabs and Raffa winnin the prem or is that a nightmare for some of you   

I thought you would have been dreaming about bamaga man , or is it Igor or John now ? 

s@int wrote:

NANNY RED wrote:An another thing i watched the ressies tonight crackin team won 1-0 Nemeth again  lobbed the keeper but i was impressed by Insua great prospect for next seasons left back position . Looking at them and the talent that Raffa has brought there i can only see good things for the future of LFC . these lads are learning the liverpool way there passing and movement was spot on , Were clear now top of the league 

Will any of them ever get a real chance though? Hobbs must be heartbroken. Insua - we tried to get Heinze earlier in the season, we already have Arbeloa, Riise, Aurelio who can play there.

Will/can we be patient while a player gets the necessary experience in the first team, with the errors and mistakes costing us vital points? Or will we just dip into the transfer market and bring in another signing?

sounds like a tv series commercial...

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando I think you'll find Houllier's first FULL season was 98/99 not the 97/98 which was the season we finished 7th. It was after the time Evans/Houllier had shared the management.

Secondly, Ambrovich arrived at Chelsea at the start of the 03/04 season, when Houllier WAS our manager so it obviously was there while he was in charge. And if you cast your memory back far enough, you'll no doubt remember that the first game Ambrovich was owner of Chelsea was against Liverpool. Remember now? I'll make it even clearer for you, Veron (remember him ex Man United) scored the winner for Chelsea. OK?

I'll make it even clearer for YOU:

"Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge" - that doesn't mean Abramovic wasn't there - it means they hadn't yet become the force that won the title 2 years running.

OK?

Well the dominance was there, financially. As they spent millions upon millions upon millions under Ambrovich with Ranieri in charge.

Or to you, is it because they didn't win the league, therefore they didn't have the money they do now? The fact that they came 2nd that year obviously means that there wasn't any money backing him. eh?

So they finished 2nd the same year as us, now? 

I said their dominance wasn't apparent. It wasn't. They were not as strong, they were not as good.

Is it really that hard to understand?

We finished 2nd in 02/03 (the year before Ambrovich) Chelsea finished 2nd 03/04 (the first year Ambrovich was owner) is your knowledge on football that slim?

Evidently not as slim as yours - we finished 2nd in 2001-02. 

maguskwt wrote:

s@int wrote:

NANNY RED wrote:An another thing i watched the ressies tonight crackin team won 1-0 Nemeth again  lobbed the keeper but i was impressed by Insua great prospect for next seasons left back position . Looking at them and the talent that Raffa has brought there i can only see good things for the future of LFC . these lads are learning the liverpool way there passing and movement was spot on , Were clear now top of the league 

Will any of them ever get a real chance though? Hobbs must be heartbroken. Insua - we tried to get Heinze earlier in the season, we already have Arbeloa, Riise, Aurelio who can play there.

Will/can we be patient while a player gets the necessary experience in the first team, with the errors and mistakes costing us vital points? Or will we just dip into the transfer market and bring in another signing?

sounds like a tv series commercial...

nice one   

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando I think you'll find Houllier's first FULL season was 98/99 not the 97/98 which was the season we finished 7th. It was after the time Evans/Houllier had shared the management.

Secondly, Ambrovich arrived at Chelsea at the start of the 03/04 season, when Houllier WAS our manager so it obviously was there while he was in charge. And if you cast your memory back far enough, you'll no doubt remember that the first game Ambrovich was owner of Chelsea was against Liverpool. Remember now? I'll make it even clearer for you, Veron (remember him ex Man United) scored the winner for Chelsea. OK?

I'll make it even clearer for YOU:

"Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge" - that doesn't mean Abramovic wasn't there - it means they hadn't yet become the force that won the title 2 years running.

OK?

Well the dominance was there, financially. As they spent millions upon millions upon millions under Ambrovich with Ranieri in charge.

Or to you, is it because they didn't win the league, therefore they didn't have the money they do now? The fact that they came 2nd that year obviously means that there wasn't any money backing him. eh?

So they finished 2nd the same year as us, now? 

I said their dominance wasn't apparent. It wasn't. They were not as strong, they were not as good.

Is it really that hard to understand?

We finished 2nd in 02/03 (the year before Ambrovich) Chelsea finished 2nd 03/04 (the first year Ambrovich was owner) is your knowledge on football that slim?

Evidently not as slim as yours - we finished 2nd in 2001-02. 

taff wrote:

bigmick wrote:Now it's all gone pear shaped, I can't help feeling that people are sometimes more concerned with eventually been proven correct than they are getting in a manager who has a better chance of moving us forward. For this reason you get the "give him another season" cry, "let him compete in the transfer market", "lets show some faith" "You lot deserve Sam Allardyce" and the like. I think though that it's probably best to believe our own eyes on this one.

I suppose it's easy to say when it appears you picked the right horse, but I couldn't give a feck to be perfectly honest who is right or wrong, I think the club getting a fair return on the talent at it's disposal is more important. Given time, perhaps we can discuss zonal marking again (and believe me if you think I'm boring on rotation, don't even get me started on such things) as well as the merits of individual players. As I've said many times, if rafa was prepared to get more conventional, just to pick a team and lets get something going i'd be on the "give him a couple more years" bandwagon. Lets face it though, we all know that isn't going to happen.

Mick, as much as I respect your posts I get the impression that you would rather be correct in all debates.

As you say now its gone pear shaped its give him time debate.  Well I can only speak for myself but I genuinely believe this and want to give him more time, I do not react from week to week or season to season.  Now if you want Rafa sacked then just say I want him out of the club, and as you think he wont learn then in your view I presume you want him gone at the end of the season.

If this is your view I respect it but would ask that you respect mine and people like me and not the Tompkins style of fan either.
You are right this season and congrats on that note so I doff my cap to you as I was wrong.

Just out of curiosity who do you want in charge

Fair point Taff and right on all counts. Sorry for being a know all tw@t, and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. If I'm honest, you're even right about me always wanting to be right. Done me like a kipper you have mucker.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Nanny, the reason it's paying off for Wenger now, is because he was always breaking them into the 1st team, I don't see Benitez doing this. If Fabrregas was in the Liverpool youth/reserve, would he of been a regular at 17/18? I doubt it. If these lads were going to be given a go, they'd be bedded in much quicker than they have been. Insua, who in my own opinion looks a real talent and is rated highly by many others on here, should of been given a chance this year, rather than expect him to be a world star from the word go next year. After all he can't do any worse than Aurellio.

bigmick wrote:

taff wrote:

bigmick wrote:Now it's all gone pear shaped, I can't help feeling that people are sometimes more concerned with eventually been proven correct than they are getting in a manager who has a better chance of moving us forward. For this reason you get the "give him another season" cry, "let him compete in the transfer market", "lets show some faith" "You lot deserve Sam Allardyce" and the like. I think though that it's probably best to believe our own eyes on this one.

I suppose it's easy to say when it appears you picked the right horse, but I couldn't give a feck to be perfectly honest who is right or wrong, I think the club getting a fair return on the talent at it's disposal is more important. Given time, perhaps we can discuss zonal marking again (and believe me if you think I'm boring on rotation, don't even get me started on such things) as well as the merits of individual players. As I've said many times, if rafa was prepared to get more conventional, just to pick a team and lets get something going i'd be on the "give him a couple more years" bandwagon. Lets face it though, we all know that isn't going to happen.

Mick, as much as I respect your posts I get the impression that you would rather be correct in all debates.

As you say now its gone pear shaped its give him time debate.  Well I can only speak for myself but I genuinely believe this and want to give him more time, I do not react from week to week or season to season.  Now if you want Rafa sacked then just say I want him out of the club, and as you think he wont learn then in your view I presume you want him gone at the end of the season.

If this is your view I respect it but would ask that you respect mine and people like me and not the Tompkins style of fan either.
You are right this season and congrats on that note so I doff my cap to you as I was wrong.

Just out of curiosity who do you want in charge

Fair point Taff and right on all counts. Sorry for being a know all tw@t, and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. If I'm honest, you're even right about me always wanting to be right. Done me like a kipper you have mucker.

Ok thanks for the sarcasm I deserved it.  Just wondering who you would like to manage the club.  I reckon Rafa will go in the summer, and he will walk with the help of a push.  I really dont know who I would want as I want Rafa but we have to be realistic as well, it took me a year to get over Kenny leaving     and I dont want that again. First cut is the deepest etc etc.

I cant decide about Mourinho, a part of me likes him and also hates him.  I cant see any British managers I would like either. The spurs guy looks good but will stay at Spurs I imagine.  And Keegan has a job

bigmick wrote:

maguskwt wrote:mick, if a new manager comes in what's ur specialty gonna be on this forum?

i'm afraid you have invested too much in the rotation topic...

You could be right Magus but you can be assured that i do actually quite enjoy posting about football stuff as well. You were quite fortunate in some respects in that you joined the rotation debate relatively late.

Three years ago when some of us first voiced our discontent and grave misgivings about the policy (around the time when I said no team would ever win nor challenge for the Premeirship while emplying etc etc) we were usually mocked, there was plenty of  wait till the end of the seasons, and  remember valencia's flying about. It was like you weren't allowed to doubt the tactical genius.

This season we had a protracted debate about how well each person felt we ought to do given the squad we had our disposal. People had varying views on how well we ought to go, and pro-rotationers/pro Rafa's really need to lose this silliness about "who else would have won the prem?". Pretty much nobody predicted nor expected the league title, but most people expected some sort of challenge, a sniff at least.

Now it's all gone pear shaped, I can't help feeling that people are sometimes more concerned with eventually been proven correct than they are getting in a manager who has a better chance of moving us forward. For this reason you get the "give him another season" cry, "let him compete in the transfer market", "lets show some faith" "You lot deserve Sam Allardyce" and the like. I think though that it's probably best to believe our own eyes on this one.

I suppose it's easy to say when it appears you picked the right horse, but I couldn't give a feck to be perfectly honest who is right or wrong, I think the club getting a fair return on the talent at it's disposal is more important. Given time, perhaps we can discuss zonal marking again (and believe me if you think I'm boring on rotation, don't even get me started on such things) as well as the merits of individual players. As I've said many times, if rafa was prepared to get more conventional, just to pick a team and lets get something going i'd be on the "give him a couple more years" bandwagon. Lets face it though, we all know that isn't going to happen.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando one huge difference to your point. He's managing Liverpool now, not Valencia. What he did there and what he does here and two seperate arguements. What works at Valencia doesn't neccessarily work at Liverpool. Morientes springs to mind. So Benitez could win 10 consecutives spanish titles with his rotation method, it still won't work over here.