Liverpool FC Forum

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:You see improvements every year. Where's the improvement from Houllier coming 4th, to Benitez coming 5th the following year as well as ending 37 points behind? Where's the improvement of coming 9 points behind to 21? Where's the improvement on last year?

We haven't improved, we're going backwards.

The fair comparison would be to use both managers' first seasons - not one's first, and the other's last.

Ergo:

Houllier's first season - 7th.

Benitez's first season - 5th and a Champions' League.

Further to this, Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge, which means he was able to get 2nd with relative ease, and a points total of 80, less than the total Rafa had to get to finish 3rd.

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:You see improvements every year. Where's the improvement from Houllier coming 4th, to Benitez coming 5th the following year as well as ending 37 points behind? Where's the improvement of coming 9 points behind to 21? Where's the improvement on last year?

We haven't improved, we're going backwards.

Well the major improvement this year was is our impressive away form, if our home form was the same we'd still be up there challenging.  I don't know what happened to our home form but next year if we improve it we'll be challenging for the title.

Last season we were saying that about our Home form 

Maybe Rafa's rotating that as well

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Well it's not an improvement, because we've had to sacrifice our home form to accomadate our away form. It's no improvement, because it's still 1 bad form to 1 good form.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando I think you'll find Houllier's first FULL season was 98/99 not the 97/98 which was the season we finished 7th. It was after the time Evans/Houllier had shared the management.

Secondly, Ambrovich arrived at Chelsea at the start of the 03/04 season, when Houllier WAS our manager so it obviously was there while he was in charge. And if you cast your memory back far enough, you'll no doubt remember that the first game Ambrovich was owner of Chelsea was against Liverpool. Remember now? I'll make it even clearer for you, Veron (remember him ex Man United) scored the winner for Chelsea. OK?

s@int wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:You see improvements every year. Where's the improvement from Houllier coming 4th, to Benitez coming 5th the following year as well as ending 37 points behind? Where's the improvement of coming 9 points behind to 21? Where's the improvement on last year?

We haven't improved, we're going backwards.

The fair comparison would be to use both managers' first seasons - not one's first, and the other's last.

Ergo:

Houllier's first season - 7th.

Benitez's first season - 5th and a Champions' League.

Further to this, Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge, which means he was able to get 2nd with relative ease, and a points total of 80, less than the total Rafa had to get to finish 3rd.

That would only be fair if we were comparing managers NOT when comparing progress.

And thats whats worrying me, we just haven't seen enough in the league.

How much have we progressed in the league since Houllier?

Houllier finished 4th, Rafa 5th, 3rd, 3rd, ?

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando I think you'll find Houllier's first FULL season was 98/99 not the 97/98 which was the season we finished 7th. It was after the time Evans/Houllier had shared the management.

Secondly, Ambrovich arrived at Chelsea at the start of the 03/04 season, when Houllier WAS our manager so it obviously was there while he was in charge. And if you cast your memory back far enough, you'll no doubt remember that the first game Ambrovich was owner of Chelsea was against Liverpool. Remember now? I'll make it even clearer for you, Veron (remember him ex Man United) scored the winner for Chelsea. OK?

I'll make it even clearer for YOU:

"Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge" - that doesn't mean Abramovic wasn't there - it means they hadn't yet become the force that won the title 2 years running.

OK?

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Lando I think you'll find Houllier's first FULL season was 98/99 not the 97/98 which was the season we finished 7th. It was after the time Evans/Houllier had shared the management.

Secondly, Ambrovich arrived at Chelsea at the start of the 03/04 season, when Houllier WAS our manager so it obviously was there while he was in charge. And if you cast your memory back far enough, you'll no doubt remember that the first game Ambrovich was owner of Chelsea was against Liverpool. Remember now? I'll make it even clearer for you, Veron (remember him ex Man United) scored the winner for Chelsea. OK?

I'll make it even clearer for YOU:

"Chelsea's financial dominance wasn't apparent whilst Houllier was in charge" - that doesn't mean Abramovic wasn't there - it means they hadn't yet become the force that won the title 2 years running.

OK?

Well the dominance was there, financially. As they spent millions upon millions upon millions under Ambrovich with Ranieri in charge.

Or to you, is it because they didn't win the league, therefore they didn't have the money they do now? The fact that they came 2nd that year obviously means that there wasn't any money backing him. eh?

So they finished 2nd the same year as us, now? 

I said their dominance wasn't apparent. It wasn't. They were not as strong, they were not as good.

Is it really that hard to understand?

s@int wrote:I am not anti -rafa , I just don't believe he will win the league title with us. I would like someone to explain to me why I should believe he still can achieve this, and why someone with different abilities and methods wouldn't.

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

s@int wrote:I am not anti -rafa , I just don't believe he will win the league title with us. I would like someone to explain to me why I should believe he still can achieve this, and why someone with different abilities and methods wouldn't.

Saint I believe that next year we'll be seriously challenging because Rafa will have his ideal team.  Rafa knows that next year will be make or break for him so forget about him signing average players because in the summer he will bring in the necessary quality players that we have been missing.  I also believe that next year when they're settled in we're going to see Torres, Masch, Babel, and Lucas truly shine in the league.

Didn't Rafa say before the season started that his squad was  strong enough?

Then didn't he repeat that before we played Porto at home?

So if the squad was strong enough why do we now need more players before we can challenge?

You talk about him buying more players in the summer, will he have the money?

Then we will have the excuse that the players need a season to settle, then we will buy more players etc etc 

s@int wrote:Didn't Rafa say before the season started that his squad was  strong enough?

Did he .. that fe.kin liar.. gawd when is Big Sam and little sam comin I can't  take this 

s@int wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

s@int wrote:I am not anti -rafa , I just don't believe he will win the league title with us. I would like someone to explain to me why I should believe he still can achieve this, and why someone with different abilities and methods wouldn't.

Saint I believe that next year we'll be seriously challenging because Rafa will have his ideal team.  Rafa knows that next year will be make or break for him so forget about him signing average players because in the summer he will bring in the necessary quality players that we have been missing.  I also believe that next year when they're settled in we're going to see Torres, Masch, Babel, and Lucas truly shine in the league.

Didn't Rafa say before the season started that his squad was  strong enough?

Then didn't he repeat that before we played Porto at home?

So if the squad was strong enough why do we now need more players before we can challenge?

You talk about him buying more players in the summer, will he have the money?

Then we will have the excuse that the players need a season to settle, then we will buy more players etc etc 

But don't you remember him saying before the winter transfer market that we need more quality players.  I'm positive that this summer he will fix this problem and we'll see a clear-out to finance those new quality players.  Once we get those quality players in, then problems like negative tactics and over-rotating will be gone.