Liverpool FC Forum

by **Penguins** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:02 am

Right now, as long as dumb and dumbwer owns us, it wouldn't matter whoever that will be put in charge.

I might be a bit frustrated right now with some of rafa's antics, but as it stand I am pretty sure in the is case, that the grass is definitly not greener on the other side.

By evidence, it is obvious the yanks want a "yes man" who will accept a small budget and ask few questions.
If I had hope the last 2 seasons with Rafa at the helm, I am really afraid what might happen without Rafa at the helm.

If things continue as they are we will be in serious trouble in a few years, where a title challenge will be the least of our problems!

But then again, if Rafa persist with "NO SHOW Kuyt" after let's say 5 goals in the PL this season, and says he will be 1st choice next season again, we might as well call Allerdyce.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:37 am

The key questions for me are:-

Has Rafa got the best out of the players and the team

Could anyone else have got us more points than we have

What progress have we made in 4 years under rafa

could anyone else have made more progress in less time with the same money

Based on my answers to those questions, if nothing changes before the end of the season Rafa should probably go.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:42 am

maguskwt wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Happy scrappies FFS another label Mick??!! How about 'The fickle Faithless!' just as silly.

All those in favour of removing Rafa and the only name that crops up as a replacement is Mourinho, and its said as though he is waiting in the wings ready to take over. IMHO he will NEVER come to LFC as manager (keep dreaming) and why would he? he has already cut his teeth at Porto with average funds, although in their League he was still the biggest spender, has been at a Club where he had a blank cheque, he probably has one big job in him, and is not going to be at LFC, poor funds, no stability. If G&H couldn't swallow Rafas' mildest words of dissent what chance of reigning in Mourinho?

So think again and come up with some new names....oh let me think.....in all the monthes of wanting Rafa out by a variety of posters NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVES have ever been mentioned, and don't forget the minimum criteria, European experience with some success, winner of a top League, Worldwide respect, young enough to build for the future. I suppose that counts out Dave Jones and Paul Jewell

If we win nothing this year and do not reach a final it will be a poor season, (enough to get rid of Rafa?) the previous three years have been in general successful campaigns and have added a lustre to the Liverpool name. They'll be dancing in the aisles at the next Club that Rafa goes to if G&H get their way, and only then will some realise how good a manager he is.

Top post...

I thought you were one of the ones that wanted him out? :upside:

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:11 pm

bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

Fair enough Bob, everyone's opinion is everyone's perogative as you say. I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view. I'm fully prepared to believe it's had an effect on us, but it's looking like we are going to be high teens at least off the eventual winners so I don't know about any genuine challenge.

No backroom squabbling and a sensible method of picking the team and maybe we would challenge, but "Rafa style" and takeovers has been a nightmare combo in many ways.

Still we've tried it four times and it's never at any stage (save for the first six matches this season) put us in with any chance whatsoever of winning the title or even mounting a challenge, so I guess one more year wouldn't hurt too much.

You never know, he might get another year and just think, "feck it, lets just give this settled team b0ll0cks a go for a few games and see what happens". He could even try it for half a dozen games this season, as of about now for instance. I can't believe it will make us play much worse put it that way.

Alas though it won't happen as we all know. No, we'll "style it up" for the remainder of this season, and if we scrape into the Champions League Rafa may well stay and we'll give it another go next season. Then by the time we get to Christmas and we're out of it again somebody will be injured, and one of the other teams will have spent more money than us and we'll be able to fall back on the same reasons again. "Just one more year, it worked in Valencia, remember the Champions League, mark my words it'll work here "etc etc. Not for me, no more. If we could go forward and actually learn some lessons then I'd be all for it, but I fear we won't.

Top post

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:16 pm

Well we can forget Garymac as assistant manager anyway, just being reported he is taking over from Wise at Leeds.

by **heimdall** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:38 pm

s@int wrote:Well we can forget Garymac as assistant manager anyway, just being reported he is taking over from Wise at Leeds.

Tell me, if Rafa is so well respected then why is it so hard to find him an assistant and what actually happened between him and Pako anyway? I think that was the point when everything started going pear shaped with our season.

Maybe just maybe if Rafa had a good assistant then we could mount a title challenge.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:51 pm

heimdall wrote:
s@int wrote:Well we can forget Garymac as assistant manager anyway, just being reported he is taking over from Wise at Leeds.

Tell me, if Rafa is so well respected then why is it so hard to find him an assistant and what actually happened between him and Pako anyway? I think that was the point when everything started going pear shaped with our season.

Maybe just maybe if Rafa had a good assistant then we could mount a title challenge.

As far as I know we agreed to continue paying Pako till the end of the season, so I presume Rafa decided rather than pay for another assistant as well as Pako he would manage without one for the time being.

Hopefully if Rafa stays on, a new assistant will be appointed in the summer.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:47 pm

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:47 pm

heimdall wrote:
s@int wrote:Well we can forget Garymac as assistant manager anyway, just being reported he is taking over from Wise at Leeds.

Tell me, if Rafa is so well respected then why is it so hard to find him an assistant and what actually happened between him and Pako anyway? I think that was the point when everything started going pear shaped with our season.

Maybe just maybe if Rafa had a good assistant then we could mount a title challenge.

First of all what makes you think that Rafa is looking for an assisitant right now?

Secondly who in their right mind would take on the role knowing that the managers position has been so precarious? How could Rafa in good faith ask someone to join him when he doesn't know how long he will be here?

Thirdly if the owners were at one point not allowing Rafa to recruit free transfers, it might be plausible to believe he wasn't allowed to sign up an assistant.

It is not a matter of respect.

by **Thinkpad** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:36 pm

Absolutely.. I still think that the reason he is still there is to wait for the sack and get his money. Ask the two ex-England manager how much they get for their failures. Plenty...

We need some stability now. Heck if we have two clowns as the owner. But I seriously think they were underminded by Rafa first. Maybe even orchestrated by Rafa unintentionally. I remembered how he changed tack after it was known they may fire him. So does Rafa have Liverpools interest at heart? Maybe not as much as we hope for..

Rafa's performance has been patchy. the only thing going for him is the past records. As usual, we have the brigade of fans that keeps repeating that. After Houlier we thought they learned. But of course a high horse is very difficult to dismount. Thumping their nose at anyone who disagreed spewing profanities. They think they are real fans with interest for Liverpool. But alas they are so myopic. To the point of blindness. Putting their emotion and feelings for a manager on top of Liverpools interest. Some times it makes you wonder if they support the manager or the club? If only they take a deep breath and relax a little, do some calculation and see what is the best viable and realistic option available.

Difficult decision is needed in a difficult time...
No point dragging our feet, and keep wishing that it will be different and better the next game because if there is a chance it will be better, then there is a chance it will not. The team has to be able to make things happen..

by **Reg** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:41 pm

Dont you just hate the press for sh!t stirring??

KEEGAN 10/1 TO GET THE CHOP Posted 29/01/08

Kevin Keegan has had his odds slashed from 40/1 to 10/1 to become the next Premier League manger to get the sack.

Despite having only been in the job for two weeks, King Kev's odds have been cut after the appointment of Dennis Wise, apparently over Keegan's head, which has caused unrest in the Newcastle ranks.

"I am reluctant to tell you all I know as I really do not know anything," Keegan told The Sun on the Wise matter.

"I just do not know enough about it so it is pointless me saying something or sitting down and saying to you this wasn't quite right or that wasn't quite right. I just want to focus on tonight's game with Arsenal."

Keegan has walked away from every managerial job he has had, including his previous tenure at Newcastle, and is believed to be upset with the appointment of Wise. The former Leeds boss takes up the role of executive director of football, handling transfers along with other responsibilities but will have nothing to do with the day-to-day running of the side.

Rafael Benitez still remains the bookies' favourite to become the next manager to get the sack with Sky Bet placing the Spainish manager at 3/1 to go after his falling out with Liverpool's American owners and the club's failure to mount a Premier League challenge despite spending nearly £50million on players this season.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:18 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

Fair enough Bob, everyone's opinion is everyone's perogative as you say. I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view. I'm fully prepared to believe it's had an effect on us, but it's looking like we are going to be high teens at least off the eventual winners so I don't know about any genuine challenge.

No backroom squabbling and a sensible method of picking the team and maybe we would challenge, but "Rafa style" and takeovers has been a nightmare combo in many ways.

Still we've tried it four times and it's never at any stage (save for the first six matches this season) put us in with any chance whatsoever of winning the title or even mounting a challenge, so I guess one more year wouldn't hurt too much.

You never know, he might get another year and just think, "feck it, lets just give this settled team b0ll0cks a go for a few games and see what happens". He could even try it for half a dozen games this season, as of about now for instance. I can't believe it will make us play much worse put it that way.

Alas though it won't happen as we all know. No, we'll "style it up" for the remainder of this season, and if we scrape into the Champions League Rafa may well stay and we'll give it another go next season. Then by the time we get to Christmas and we're out of it again somebody will be injured, and one of the other teams will have spent more money than us and we'll be able to fall back on the same reasons again. "Just one more year, it worked in Valencia, remember the Champions League, mark my words it'll work here "etc etc. Not for me, no more. If we could go forward and actually learn some lessons then I'd be all for it, but I fear we won't.

Top post

The dreaded wink

by **mattylfc** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:49 pm

I think there has been some really good points made in this thread after getting through some of the nonsense. Personally, if there is little change by the end of the season then unfortunately Rafa must go.

One thing i want to make clear is that i really rate Rafa as a manager and he has proved himself as one of the best mangers in the world in my eyes. Whilst he is still in charge, he has my full support as manager and if i was to wake up tomorrow and read that Rafa had gone i would be truly gutted.

Quite a lot of the earlier posters were suggesting that anyone that queries rafas future doesnt care about the club and Rafa as a person. This is completely untrue in my case, i am just realistic and will always put the club before anyone else and if that means Rafa making way then unfortunately thats the way it will have to be.

Like everyone else on here we have reached the highest standards and seen some of the best football played at the highest level. For a long time now i have been very disapointed with our style of play and the way in which we approach games. We as a club have been notorious for an exciting style of play and a never say die attitude and that seems to have disappeared lately.

Too many times i have seen us turn up against weaker opposition under Rafa and planned our team around them. Obviously we always need to take certain things into consideration but we should be at a level by now where we need not worry too much about what the opposition do. We should go out to win every single game.

With regards to signings, Rafa has bought in some unbelievable players who will hopefully be here for years to come but i also feel that too often he has bridged gaps with signings and hasnt nailed those key players that we still require. I know that we have had problems with money at times and there is obviously tension in the background at the moment but i still believe that we can free up a lot of money in the sales of average existing players coupled with money from other areas.

Im not someone who believes that you have to go out and spend top amounts for the sake of it but i am someone that can see that if we were to sell two or three players in which we could get substantial cash for and then go and buy three top class players ( in the calibre of Torres), we would be so much closer to the top three than we are now. I want Rafa to sign players that he feels he cannot drop because they are simply that good and are important to the team.

Rafa has shown already that in a one off games we can beat anyone on our day but over the season we just dont have the same consistancy or the quality of players to cope with the demands of the premier league.
I really do hope that Rafa is the man to turn things around for us but if i am completely honest, i just cant see it happening.

by **bigmick** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:57 pm

mattylfc wrote:I think there has been some really good points made in this thread after getting through some of the nonsense. Personally, if there is little change by the end of the season then unfortunately Rafa must go.

One thing i want to make clear is that i really rate Rafa as a manager and he has proved himself as one of the best mangers in the world in my eyes. Whilst he is still in charge, he has my full support as manager and if i was to wake up tomorrow and read that Rafa had gone i would be truly gutted.

Quite a lot of the earlier posters were suggesting that anyone that queries rafas future doesnt care about the club and Rafa as a person. This is completely untrue in my case, i am just realistic and will always put the club before anyone else and if that means Rafa making way then unfortunately thats the way it will have to be.

Like everyone else on here we have reached the highest standards and seen some of the best football played at the highest level. For a long time now i have been very disapointed with our style of play and the way in which we approach games. We as a club have been notorious for an exciting style of play and a never say die attitude and that seems to have disappeared lately.

Too many times i have seen us turn up against weaker opposition under Rafa and planned our team around them. Obviously we always need to take certain things into consideration but we should be at a level by now where we need not worry too much about what the opposition do. We should go out to win every single game.

With regards to signings, Rafa has bought in some unbelievable players who will hopefully be here for years to come but i also feel that too often he has bridged gaps with signings and hasnt nailed those key players that we still require. I know that we have had problems with money at times and there is obviously tension in the background at the moment but i still believe that we can free up a lot of money in the sales of average existing players coupled with money from other areas.

Im not someone who believes that you have to go out and spend top amounts for the sake of it but i am someone that can see that if we were to sell two or three players in which we could get substantial cash for and then go and buy three top class players ( in the calibre of Torres), we would be so much closer to the top three than we are now. I want Rafa to sign players that he feels he cannot drop because they are simply that good and are important to the team.

Rafa has shown already that in a one off games we can beat anyone on our day but over the season we just dont have the same consistancy or the quality of players to cope with the demands of the premier league.
I really do hope that Rafa is the man to turn things around for us but if i am completely honest, i just cant see it happening.

Top post Matt and you I'm not just saying that bcause you broadly echo my own views. You've managed to put into words very well your misgivings about criticising the manager, and the fact that you have the utmost respect for him.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:46 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Sure I understand the anger towards the owners but I also understand how frustrated many are with our performances.

IMO, the two are very much related. What effect has the whole off-field nonsense had on our performances over the last two months? No one can say for sure but it's not been nothing. Would we have challenged this year if there had not been such turmoil behind the scenes? Impossible to say but I, for one, am prepared to give Rafa the benefit of the doubt and one more year to get it right (that is, to properly challenge for the title). In my books, he's due another bite at the cherry after the success he's brought in his time at the club. Others are less patient and that's their prerogative but, for me, sacking him on the basis of this season is a mistake.

Fair enough Bob, everyone's opinion is everyone's perogative as you say. I must confess though the notion that had we not had the backroom twoings and frowings we would have been challenging for the title is stretching crebibility a tad in my view. I'm fully prepared to believe it's had an effect on us, but it's looking like we are going to be high teens at least off the eventual winners so I don't know about any genuine challenge.

No backroom squabbling and a sensible method of picking the team and maybe we would challenge, but "Rafa style" and takeovers has been a nightmare combo in many ways.

Still we've tried it four times and it's never at any stage (save for the first six matches this season) put us in with any chance whatsoever of winning the title or even mounting a challenge, so I guess one more year wouldn't hurt too much.

You never know, he might get another year and just think, "feck it, lets just give this settled team b0ll0cks a go for a few games and see what happens". He could even try it for half a dozen games this season, as of about now for instance. I can't believe it will make us play much worse put it that way.

Alas though it won't happen as we all know. No, we'll "style it up" for the remainder of this season, and if we scrape into the Champions League Rafa may well stay and we'll give it another go next season. Then by the time we get to Christmas and we're out of it again somebody will be injured, and one of the other teams will have spent more money than us and we'll be able to fall back on the same reasons again. "Just one more year, it worked in Valencia, remember the Champions League, mark my words it'll work here "etc etc. Not for me, no more. If we could go forward and actually learn some lessons then I'd be all for it, but I fear we won't.

Top post

The dreaded wink

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