Liverpool FC Forum

by **Pedro Maradona** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:09 pm

I think this season is a ryt off, if we win a trophy it will be a bonus this year, and fair play to Rafa if he manages it with the upheaval in the background.
I think Liverpool have been an easy target for the media particularly this year and this has heightened the pressure on Rafas position. I think the criticisms have been way over the top since early in the season and I honestly think the only valid criticisms have been in relation to consistancy on the pitch. Id like to see more consistancy in our play and a play with less fear attitude from the players and i dont think the pressure on Rafa has helped in this regard.
I think Rafa deserves to see out his contract. Without the media hounding his every move, I think you would see better football if that pressure wasnt there.
Also buying players is always a risk and i accept some of the signings have been very poor and even tho we recouped our losses by selling those players again it still means that we could have bought other players instead. I think Kuyt and Voronin have been particularly bad buys and have put added pressure on Rafas position this year because they look clueless out there and people wonder what was Benitez thinking buying them and why is he playing them. All in all it looks at times like Rafa doesnt know what he is doing....and I dont think that this is actually the case.

by **Number 9** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:13 pm

Dundalk wrote:Fight Fight Fight

Yesy!!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:14 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it maybe better if Rafa left Liverpool at the end of the season.

Firstly let me just put it out there that I despise G&H and what they've done at the club, and I think undermining Rafa like they did was disgraceful. I think I'd stick up for any manager who found himself in the same predicament as Rafa Benitez did. There is no doubt that since they've come in they've made life hell for the Spaniard, how is he supposed to work under those sort of conditions ?
Hicks has come out and said that they'll give him their full support and hope to try and build a bridge over this whole situation. Fact of the matter is the two Yanks and Rafa will never be in unison when it comes down to football and transfers alike. It wouldnt surprise me, and I wouldnt blame Rafa for holding a grudge against those two, and for that I just cannot see this matter being a good foundation to get Liverpool going again, they'll always be friction between the trio, then add Parry into the pot and there seems a recipe for disaster. I would like to see the Yanks go before Rafa does, but I cannot see this happening now.

Secondly and for purely footballing reasons now, I have to say that I've lost faith in Benitez somewhat. I cannot see him taking us any further than where we are currently situated in terms of league status. I'd hoped at the begining of this season he'd of put any doubts in my mind I had about him in the previous season, and erased them. For me he hasnt, hes just mirrored what he did from the season before and persisted with methods that just have not worked. So many people will tell me he wont change, and they're right he wont. So in my mind thats why I've lost faith in him. He doesnt seem willing to change and adapt his methods and thats costing us again this season.
I also think there is a lot of room for his man-management skills to be improved on, and I dont see him as a real motivator to his players. For me now in the way that we play and the lack of grit, determination and seemingly passion we're showind, he's becoming the equavilant of Sven Goran Erricksson during his tenure in charge of England. That may come accross as a tad harsh, but its the only comparrison I can make to try and get my point accross.
He hasnt got an assistant, he needs one as much as the players need one there clearly is a missing link there and its a void Rafa isnt able to fill. He hasnt brought anyone in to help him out, I dont know, he may not of worked with many people to know who are good coaches, he may of only worked with and handful of coaches, which possibly shows a shallow depth in his recruiting department. I maybe wrong and he may know many more able coaches to help him out, but if so why hasnt he got one in ?

Another gut feeling I get is that the players themselves dont have much hope in Rafa's methods anymore, didnt Carra say something along those sort of lines in an interview shortly or give that impression anyway ? If it is true and some of the players are feeling like this, Rafa's own chances of making us successful are slim to none, everything is stacking up against him now, and it might be better for him and us if he were to swallow his pride and move on.
There isnt any cohesiveness to our football anymore, there doesnt seem that kind of winning mentality and togetherness that all title winning sides need. Yes with whats gone on at the club will certainly of not done us any favours nor Rafa, but I feel this debacle has luckily for Rafa IMO turned our attention elsewhere, and as the football has become a distant second in most fans minds, its kind of made a valid excuse for poor performances, but even before all this it wasnt clear we were heading any further in the right direction.

This is a $hit time for the fans and the club I know, but I dont think it will get any better between Rafa and the board and between Rafa and our football.

Top post BM, although i don't agree with you. I still think we've got legs in this season yet and i'm hoping we'll still get some silverware, but to be honest with you my priority at the moment is getting these two yanks out and getting DIC in and getting some sort of stability back in the club.

I'm prepared to write these season off now and start again ,no matter what happens on the pitch , I want rafa to have one more season atleast ,with proper funding and a settled club .

I know i don't agree with you ,but i understand where your coming from and i know 'it's just not another sack rafa post . It's a carefully considered arguement with alot of thought ,i just don't agree with you mate .

Not having a go at u mate or anything , i think rafa has had his money and has made some bad buys , so i don't think it's fair to say that he has not had proper money , i think we are still clearly 3 players away from winning the league , so maybe just maybe rafa should have one more season IF he is given the money and does not perform then it's time for him to go

What proper money has he had mate? Where can you say he's been backed to compete for signings that the likes of man u and chelsea have made , one swollow does not make a summer mate.

A few bad buys . crouch was what 10 mill?? , dirk kuyt was another 10 mill , bellamy was 6 million , morrienties was 7 million , gonzales was 5 million , thats close to 40 mill wasted , with that money we could have added 2 top class players more , u talk abt manu and chelsea , chelsea have a blank cheque , they have spent 300 mill in the first 2 seasons , manu have spent also abt 40 mill in the summer , now i am not having a go and saying that rafa has spent more the fergie or wenger , but i am saying, some of his bad buys could have have hurt us esp when the money could have been used to sign 2 more top class players. Arsenal have spent the least mate , so what does that say? Whoever spends the most is better?

Crouch was £7m, and some might say that that was a shrewd bit of business, considering he was our top scorer last season...

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:16 pm

Reg wrote:We're not going to win the league whoever the manager is until we have sufficient funds to buy the players we need, so until then its academic.

Precisely.

by **lakes10** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:41 pm

on sky last night they said a lot of Valencia fans are trying to get Rafa to go back to the Club. They sais that some fans had bannhers saying " Rafa the Yanks dont love you but we do".....but ib spanish.

If he was to leave the club i dont think he is the type of guy to take a step backwards.

by **lakes10** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:49 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Reg wrote:We're not going to win the league whoever the manager is until we have sufficient funds to buy the players we need, so until then its academic.

Precisely.

Things have been wrong at the club for 17 years. You have to look back to that time to see where it started to go wrong. and since 2000 we have had no young youth players make it big in the full team. we got into the mind set of "we must buy none english players to be good"

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:51 pm

Number 9 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Number 9 wrote:I totally catagorically with every ounce of my very existance..DISAGREE!

So this is the way its gonna be ?

Fuc.king disgusted at the post and disgusted with the sheep...This is not LFC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7K4jH7NqUw

Go on Jonny boy!

Keep a close watch on your hearts,soon you may not have one!

then maybe ur the type of person that can't accept the truth , the truth hurts, open ur eyes mate we're 5th 12 points adrift from the leader and battling for 4th place , this is NOT LFC , LFC should be challenging for the premier league title but at the momnet 4th places seems like our best bet and only thing we can get this season. Chmapions league , i have faith in us and it would be a bonus

Then again lad maybe hes the type of person who just supports Liverpool Football club trophy or no trophy i support my team cause i love LFC of couse i want us to win things but id still be a red mate and love my team even if we were in division three cause they are the club i love but some fans lad actualy do support us with or with out the glory

Well said Nanny!

Scum on here turn my gut at times..one fuc.king interveiw from a briefed yank and they turn on Rafa like a pack of wolves!

True colours always show in the end!
All they want is glory,respect,the way its done matters nothing now to so called fans!
Yeah just get Rafa out and buy a better manager now we have money.....Some things are more important than a pound sign,dignity and respect cannot be bought!

Whoa.... just joined in jan 2008 and already flaming other members .........

Pack of wolves

Turn your Gut

How long have you been supporting this club ?

by **Reg** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:11 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Reg wrote:We're not going to win the league whoever the manager is until we have sufficient funds to buy the players we need, so until then its academic.

Precisely.

Things have been wrong at the club for 17 years. You have to look back to that time to see where it started to go wrong. and since 2000 we have had no young youth players make it big in the full team. we got into the mind set of "we must buy none english players to be good"

Maybe because we havent had an english manager for 10 years?

Managers buy the nationality they know, Houllier bought French, Wenger buys West Africans, Benitez buys Spaniards, Fergie has a fairly good balance though. (Maureen had the money to simply focus on the best)

I'm impressed that despite having made a fantastic buy in Ronaldo and similarly with a few other key players from different countries that Fergie didnt go back and try to repeat the trick buying 10 other Portuguese etc.. which is what Rafa has done in Spain. Wouldnt he be happier managing in spain?

by **King Carra** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:15 pm

I do think it's honestly time for Rafa to go, and in all honest I think he's had TOO much money avaliable. It allows him to take gambles and pay over the odds prices for players just because we're Liverpool. Granted Torres has been a magnificent buy but just look at Kuyt etc. All a complete waste of money, and we payed far more than we should have done.

We're on about a par with Arsenal on funds but they've become so good as Wenger is a brilliant manager with a brilliant team behind him. Unfortunately Rafa doesn't have that. Problem then is if we get rid of Rafa who do we get?

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:21 pm

The_Rock wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Number 9 wrote:I totally catagorically with every ounce of my very existance..DISAGREE!

So this is the way its gonna be ?

Fuc.king disgusted at the post and disgusted with the sheep...This is not LFC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7K4jH7NqUw

Go on Jonny boy!

Keep a close watch on your hearts,soon you may not have one!

then maybe ur the type of person that can't accept the truth , the truth hurts, open ur eyes mate we're 5th 12 points adrift from the leader and battling for 4th place , this is NOT LFC , LFC should be challenging for the premier league title but at the momnet 4th places seems like our best bet and only thing we can get this season. Chmapions league , i have faith in us and it would be a bonus

Then again lad maybe hes the type of person who just supports Liverpool Football club trophy or no trophy i support my team cause i love LFC of couse i want us to win things but id still be a red mate and love my team even if we were in division three cause they are the club i love but some fans lad actualy do support us with or with out the glory

Well said Nanny!

Scum on here turn my gut at times..one fuc.king interveiw from a briefed yank and they turn on Rafa like a pack of wolves!

True colours always show in the end!
All they want is glory,respect,the way its done matters nothing now to so called fans!
Yeah just get Rafa out and buy a better manager now we have money.....Some things are more important than a pound sign,dignity and respect cannot be bought!

Whoa.... just joined in jan 2008 and already flaming other members .........

Pack of wolves Turn your Gut

How long have you been supporting this club ?

I hope your not referin to me lad

But in answer to your question since i was born
Why when did you start?

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm

King Carra wrote:I do think it's honestly time for Rafa to go, and in all honest I think he's had TOO much money avaliable. It allows him to take gambles and pay over the odds prices for players just because we're Liverpool. Granted Torres has been a magnificent buy but just look at Kuyt etc. All a complete waste of money, and we payed far more than we should have done.

We're on about a par with Arsenal on funds but they've become so good as Wenger is a brilliant manager with a brilliant team behind him. Unfortunately Rafa doesn't have that. Problem then is if we get rid of Rafa who do we get?

Thats the key...wenger is a brilliant manager. So is AF. And so is Mourinho (although most people here hate him).

For me...rafa's a brilliant coach..nothing more.

Maybe we need a technical manager who will be in charge of scouting the right youth players and looking for ones who can improve our 1st team immediately.

Chelsea did a great piece of business by signing Alex, Ben Taim, Pizzaro and Sidwell for free. This allowed them to spend big on Anelka in january.. I understand that Arnesen was involved in this. Us on the other hand go and sign a cr@p like voronin.... :no

Perhaps we need to sign someone like Arnesen..who can take care of scouting for players...etc. And rafa can just concentrate on coaching the team....(ie...getting the zonal system back in order, getting our players to play with high tempo and press the opposition when they don't have the ball, improving our attack play...etc). Think at the moment, rafa has too many things to take care off...and this affects what is excellant at........yes you are right...****coaching****.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:36 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Number 9 wrote:I totally catagorically with every ounce of my very existance..DISAGREE!

So this is the way its gonna be ?

Fuc.king disgusted at the post and disgusted with the sheep...This is not LFC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7K4jH7NqUw

Go on Jonny boy!

Keep a close watch on your hearts,soon you may not have one!

then maybe ur the type of person that can't accept the truth , the truth hurts, open ur eyes mate we're 5th 12 points adrift from the leader and battling for 4th place , this is NOT LFC , LFC should be challenging for the premier league title but at the momnet 4th places seems like our best bet and only thing we can get this season. Chmapions league , i have faith in us and it would be a bonus

Then again lad maybe hes the type of person who just supports Liverpool Football club trophy or no trophy i support my team cause i love LFC of couse i want us to win things but id still be a red mate and love my team even if we were in division three cause they are the club i love but some fans lad actualy do support us with or with out the glory

Well said Nanny!

Scum on here turn my gut at times..one fuc.king interveiw from a briefed yank and they turn on Rafa like a pack of wolves!

True colours always show in the end!
All they want is glory,respect,the way its done matters nothing now to so called fans!
Yeah just get Rafa out and buy a better manager now we have money.....Some things are more important than a pound sign,dignity and respect cannot be bought!

Whoa.... just joined in jan 2008 and already flaming other members .........

Pack of wolves Turn your Gut

How long have you been supporting this club ?

I hope your not referin to me lad

But in answer to your question since i was born
Why when did you start?

Did i talk in spanish or something....i mean i did mention jan 2008 right .....nanny ....

Jesus....it is so obvious i was referring to.......

Or have you forgotten when you joined this forum :lookaround