Liverpool FC Forum

by **heimdall** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:00 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race? No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys. U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent. I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions. The answer is not just to give him more money. Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money. We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Name another manager that would win us the title under this crop of players we currently have, then. I still haven't heard one single name, and don't say Jose. If anyone thinks he can do better than Rafa with the current team is mental.

Hello Red is spot on!

OK Here are some names of managers who would do better in the league than Rafa:

Ferguson
Wenger
Mouriniho
O'Neill
Ramos
Erikson

Just to name managers from the Prem league.

How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

by **maguskwt** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:07 pm

puroresu wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race? No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys. U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent. I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions. The answer is not just to give him more money. Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money. We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Name another manager that would win us the title under this crop of players we currently have, then. I still haven't heard one single name, and don't say Jose. If anyone thinks he can do better than Rafa with the current team is mental.

Hello Red is spot on!

I believe after 4 years he would not be 14 points behind the leaders in January. Have our standards dropped so low that now we must accept such mediocrity? U may feel that no-one else could do any better but hand on heart if at the start of the season u was asked where do think LFC will be in 6 months u would not have said "below everton and 14 points of the top". U may like Rafa but please stop with the "nobody else could do any better". Rafa isn't infallible and had made mistakes. The league table doesnt lie.

I don't believe anyone is saying "nobody else could do any better" or that Rafa is infallible... some of us just believe that rafa is one of the top managers in the world... and such a manager is hard to come by... that's why the pro-rafa's keep on demanding from the anti's name someone who can truely replace rafa and give us some guarantee that that person will do a better job than rafa... you can't could you? we're not saying such a manager doesn't exist... the candidates who would meet that critera and how are at the same time available are just very rare... instead of becoming like Newcastle and hoping each new manager will bring a miracle... give a top manager like rafa more time and support... I firmly believe that he has the neccessary ability to succeed in this league... keep in mind, it's not as if rafa had the opportunity to work under the most ideal conditions (in fact Houllier enjoyed far more stable conditions than rafa)... but he already has delivered us the CL and FA cup... don't be forgetful... if after 6 years he can't deliver the league, send him away... no arguments there...

by **maguskwt** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:11 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race? No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys. U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent. I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions. The answer is not just to give him more money. Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money. We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Name another manager that would win us the title under this crop of players we currently have, then. I still haven't heard one single name, and don't say Jose. If anyone thinks he can do better than Rafa with the current team is mental.

Hello Red is spot on!

OK Here are some names of managers who would do better in the league than Rafa:

Ferguson
Wenger
Mouriniho
O'Neill
Ramos
Erikson

Just to name managers from the Prem league.

How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

lad... I was liking you more when you were commenting on the h&g thread...

don't make me laugh now... O'neil, Ramos, Erikson?

Mourinho had Roman's Dollars... but credit to him he won the 2 league titles... so it's very arguable whether he will succeed in the same conditions that rafa is going through now in Liverpool...

Ferguson, Wenger? How many years of unconditional support were they given? My point exactly...

by **stmichael** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:12 pm

heimdall wrote:How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

I'd rather wait the extra couple of years for the league that Benitez's sometimes dodgy selections may be causing than lose him, lose his top signings, and start rebuilding again with some other manager that people here are going to slag off anyway. Truth is the manager has had two great seasons, one nearly great season, and then there's this season which is far from being decided. Hardly grounds for being sacked.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:20 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race? No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys. U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent. I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions. The answer is not just to give him more money. Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money. We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Name another manager that would win us the title under this crop of players we currently have, then. I still haven't heard one single name, and don't say Jose. If anyone thinks he can do better than Rafa with the current team is mental.

Hello Red is spot on!

OK Here are some names of managers who would do better in the league than Rafa:

Ferguson
Wenger
Mouriniho
O'Neill
Ramos
Erikson

Just to name managers from the Prem league.

How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

Are you serious? This is what you come up with?

How can you say O'Neill, Ramos and Erikson? Sure they have potential but, they've never won it before. :Oo:

Why do you mention Ferguson and Wenger when they are our rivals and they'll never come here? What is the point?

And Jose has only won the title with a much bigger budget, this part you anti-Rafa people just don't seem to get.

The only one out of that list that might do a better job with Rafa's budget is Ramos but that's still a long shot, he still has a lot to prove.

by **HantsRed** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:22 pm

stmichael wrote:
heimdall wrote:How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

I'd rather wait the extra couple of years for the league that Benitez's sometimes dodgy selections may be causing than lose him, lose his top signings, and start rebuilding again with some other manager that people here are going to slag off anyway. Truth is the manager has had two great seasons, one nearly great season, and then there's this season which is far from being decided. Hardly grounds for being sacked.

Spot on St Mike - agree 100%

by **Paul C** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:24 pm

How about Kevin Keagan

by **imouthep** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:46 pm

OK Here are some names of managers who would do better in the league than Rafa:

Ferguson
Wenger
Mouriniho
O'Neill
Ramos
Erikson

Just to name managers from the Prem league.

How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

That is an unbeleivable statement.How can Wenger be named as one of the managers to do better than rafa when last season Arsenal were the one's struggling? Did he achieve massive glory in four years at the helm of Arsenal? Did he not tkae time to build? And the almighty fesrguson :censored:

about in the wind before getting it right and it took hime more than four years.

As far as youth players go who brought a lot of them in the first place? who signed them up and improved our youth structure? the reserves look very good and a few of those guys look like they'll make it, but are you suggesting we toss them in the deep end and pray they swim? they need time to be blooded and that is what rafa is doing.

Honestly I don't think rafa will ever win, if he plays the youth players and we lose people will dive down his throat and scream foul and when he doesn't he ain't promoting them.

by **hello_red** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:14 pm

Paul C wrote:How about Kevin Keagan

I always thought Keegan would be a great Liverpool manager :rasp

I see my post has caused some debate.

Good.

by **supersub** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:18 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
supersub wrote:Whether we win the big prize,maybe not this year but with Gerrard staying and the purchase of another striker,centre-half and we will be back in the reckoning.

We've been saying words to this effect for years unfortunately.

And 18 months later we won the Champions league

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:39 pm

heimdall wrote:OK Here are some names of managers who would do better in the league than Rafa:

Ferguson
Wenger
Mouriniho
O'Neill
Ramos
Erikson

Just to name managers from the Prem league.

How you guys still have faith in Rafa is beyond comprehension. How you can you defend a manager who never promotes youth players to the squad despite the fact that they have won the youth cup twice and who also keeps playing Kuyt??

You post some absolute shi.te lad, but this is up there with the best.

Furgeson has been at United for twenty years and was given 7 I think until he won the Premiership. He is simply not available as a replacement end of.

Wenger has been backed to the hilt by the club to the extent that he is expected to becone the Director when he finishes managing. He made decisions on the training ground, stadium and youth set up that have come to fruition, HOWEVER - if Arsenal dont win the league or FA Cup this seson, a strong possiblity then it will be FOUR YEARS without winning FU.CK ALL. He is also not available as a replacement.

Mourinho - absolute c.unt of a man, but its possible (not guaranteed) that he would improve our chance of winning hte league. He is available.

O'Neill - Get a grip, Villa have won a few games and he is the right man for the job ? Fickle must be your middle name.

Ramos - For Fu.cks sake, if you think that Ramos (2 UEFA CUPS and 1 COPA DEL REY) has more chance of winning us the league than Rafa (2 SPANISH LEAGUE TITLES, 1 UEFA CUP, 1 CHAMPIONS LEAGUE and 1 FA CUP) then you are even more stupid than you look. He has managed to get Spurs to a league Cup Final in this country to date, Rafa did this in his first season.

Ericksonn - I just did a wee wee in my pants.

------------------------------------------------------------

How we have faith in Rafa, we dont know eaither, he has won nothing and proven completely useless as a manager, all he has done is get us a Champions LEague win, FA Cup win, most Premiership points we have ever had (AND that would have won hte league 3 out of 6 years before) and got us to the final of the Champions LEague again last season.

Never promotes Youth players even though they have won the kids FA Cup ? FU.CK ME YOU ARE A FU.CKING IDIOT. - take a look at the players in the last ten years of winning the FA Youth Cup and see how many play top class football now.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 pm

puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race? No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys. U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent. I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions. The answer is not just to give him more money. Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money. We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Rafa was happy with his squad, but he always re-iterates that it's hard to gauge how other teams have improved aswell.

We're competing against teams who've been able to spend year by year well over £15m on one player. With the exception of one occasion where Rafa could have spent £15m+ on one player instead of dividing that by two players, he's had to operate on a lower budget i.e. the £6-10m bracket. You may well argue that you can find players of greater quality even with the type of money Rafa's had at his disposal, he probably could have, but he hasn't the time to do a Wenger and he hasn't the funds to do a Chelsea or a Man U. He's somewhere in between. Overall his transfer record has been pretty good.

The question for me is; 'is it worth hiring a new manager who'd require time and lots more money to build a side of his own, or is it better to allow Rafa the time to spend on a level similar to the Manc's and Chelsea (assuming he'd be given the funds) to allow him to fully demonstrate whether he is capable of winning the title as our manager'.

I think he'll have learnt more about this season than any other, and by quite some distance. That's also one of the reasons why I think we should allow him one more season.

by **shadowman** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:56 pm

we finished 3rd above arsenal last season
but we have only just scraped past them via goal difference despite arsenal being out of form .

this meant to be amazing progress from benitez,yet the moment arsenal find some form we are back scrapping for fourth place.

to me this clearly shows he has not actually improved liverpool,its just that arsenal has been way out of form for 2 seasons.

can a rafa team live with a arsenal,manu and chelsea all in form at the same time.
not to mention teams from below with new money making a charge.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:14 pm

shadowman wrote:we finished 3rd above arsenal last season
but we have only just scraped past them via goal difference despite arsenal being out of form .

this meant to be amazing progress from benitez,yet the moment arsenal find some form we are back scrapping for fourth place.

to me this clearly shows he has not actually improved liverpool,its just that arsenal has been way out of form for 2 seasons.

can a rafa team live with a arsenal,manu and chelsea all in form at the same time.
not to mention teams from below with new money making a charge.

Defo a wum you mate.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:14 pm

shadowman wrote:we finished 3rd above arsenal last season
but we have only just scraped past them via goal difference despite arsenal being out of form .

this meant to be amazing progress from benitez,yet the moment arsenal find some form we are back scrapping for fourth place.

to me this clearly shows he has not actually improved liverpool,its just that arsenal has been way out of form for 2 seasons.

can a rafa team live with a arsenal,manu and chelsea all in form at the same time.
not to mention teams from below with new money making a charge.

You're talking about Arsenal and them being out of form last season? Well, haven't you been paying attention to ours this season? We HAVE improved. Rafa did improve the squad enough to challenge at least this season. This side is well capable of it. We've just lost our form. Ironic, eh? I know what you're getting at, but like all arguments in the anti-Rafa camp, it doesn't really hold any credible weight to it.

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