Liverpool FC Forum

Paul C wrote:Yeah I think we need money as you can never have enough but Rafa has spent £140m (approx) which imo is enough to at least make a challenge, put it this way we've spent more than enough to be getting into fights for 4th place with Everton and Villa, it's not good enough 

LFC2007 wrote:I think you'd see Rafa reduce player-rotation ever so slightly if we had the capacity to sign players of a similar value as the Manc's and Chelsea on a reguar basis.

It's unreasonable to ask Rafa to 'do a Wenger', or any other manager for that matter, he has a knack of spotting quality youngsters and building quality sides (although he has signed some right turkeys aswell), but sometimes it's at the expense of time, and trophies.

I'd wait until the summer, assuming we go on a decent cup run and get fourth I'd keep Rafa as the manager. Basically, I don't necessarily agree with Rafa's approach to EPL games (i.e. it's not what I'd do), but I try and rationalise his approach on the basis that he is significantly more experienced than any of us when it comes to football, and if it was just that simple - every Tom, Dick and Harry who can talk the talk like some do on this forum, would be successful football managers. I don't mind player-rotation at all, I can tolerate that, I do however have reservations about the alteration of the system and formation.

I think you can rotate players game-to-game at more or less the same rate as Rafa does, but whilst keeping a balanced formation and system that suits the players within it, and still be successful in the Premier League, but to do so you'd require a fair bit more quality. Would Rafa alter the system and formation to the same extent as he does if he had more quality at his disposal? I think he'd temper it a little, because he'd know what he'd be getting and where a particular player is most effective. You could argue that with quality comes a greater degree of versatility and therefore the players would be able to adapt to any tweaks to the system. Any major alterations, and I'm not so sure. It would depend on the nature of the alterations also. I think if he had a nailed on left winger for example, he'd keep him there more often than he does with any of our current left-sided options. Similarly, if he had a nailed on Torres, or near-Torres quality second striker he'd keep him there more often than he does currently - by quite a margin I reckon. Torres can adapt, he can play deep, he can play on the edge of the opposition defence, he can drift wide, he can do almost anything - because he has the quality. Just as Gerrard can. It's partly but in quite a large way IMO the inconsistency and lack of adaptability of our current second strikers, and players in other positions that, IMHO, leads to indecision and subsequently more changes.

Ultimately though, we're probably looking at getting in a left winger, a right winger, a second striker and a possibly a left-back. Certainly long-term I see it being that way. At the very least, a second striker and a left-winger are imperative this summer. They've been two positions that form the crux of our imbalances and inabilitiies to break sides down.

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

Paul C wrote:Yeah I think we need money as you can never have enough but Rafa has spent £140m (approx) which imo is enough to at least make a challenge, put it this way we've spent more than enough to be getting into fights for 4th place with Everton and Villa, it's not good enough 

You're looking at it the wrong way.  We are fighting for 4th place right now because of the troubles off the field.  Rafa is also still building the ideal team why cant people see that?  Let's not forget that Man U, Chelsea, and Arsenal have also improved over last year.  Why should we suddenly expect the title challenge when teams like Chelsea and Man U are allowed to buy world class talents but we've only bought Torres to add to our pretty average team. 

Rafa needs more time and funds.  Just this summer we started to heavily rebuild the youth academy.  We've brought in a lot of highly rated youngster.  We should not forget that some of them will break into the first team in a couple of years, don't forget that.

Many laughed at  Wenger a couple of seasons ago when the could barely get 4th place and now look where they are.  I know a lot of ignorant Arsenal fans who were calling for Wenger's head but some more intelligent Arsenal supporters knew the team was in a process of rebuilding and they were willing to give him time.  They stuck with their manager through the through the storm and now they are rewarded for it.

Glad your so possitive, especially over the youngsters (see my posts in the 'youth development' thread).

I don't expect a quick fix bit I do expect us to closing the gap, which we aren't 

hello_red wrote:

Rafa should not be changed, just give him a season or two with real money behind him.

Some idiots who question him and say he has spent alot of money. Yes he has but compared to Sir Alex and Jose he has not. Arsene aside (who is famed for youth development) we are not spending as we NEED to be.




I despair sometimes I really do at our fan base.

Take that as you will.

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

hello_red wrote::angry:

Rafa should not be changed, just give him a season or two with real money behind him.

Some idiots who question him and say he has spent alot of money. Yes he has but compared to Sir Alex and Jose he has not. Arsene aside (who is famed for youth development) we are not spending as we NEED to be.




I despair sometimes I really do at our fan base.

Take that as you will.

I feel sorry for our supports, I know everyone is sick to death of being let down year after year.  But we should not take our anger and frustration out on Rafa.  He's the best chance we've got at winning the title, no other manager out there would bring us the title with such limited funds.  Sure he has makes some bizarre choices, but so does every manager.  The reason they get away with it is because they have a lot of quality players who can change things. By watching some of the games this year, I've realized that we're only a few quality players away from the title.  I hope the owners, who ever they are, see this and give Rafa the necessary funds in the summer.

Paul C wrote:Look, I'm not saying Rafa is the wrong man for the job, all I'm saying is that he's had four years and £140m but were still no closer than under Houllier, things need to improve thats all.

Emerald Red wrote:

puroresu wrote:So no other manager out there could actually keep us in a title race?  No other Manager could find better players than Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant for the money spent on them? Rafa aint infallible and has made some poor buys.  U may say its down to lack of funds but to me its also down to poor judgment. Rafa seemed more than happy with his squad at the start of the season as did the fans yet 6 months later and suddenly more money needs to be spent.  I agree that our squad isn't good enough but rafa has bought the players and has to live or die buy those decisions.  The answer is not just to give him more money.  Other questions need to be answered and I dont think Rafa can deliver us the title regardless if he got more money.  We play too defensive under Rafa and it doesnt matter what players we have it will always be that way.

Name another manager that would win us the title under this crop of players we currently have, then. I still haven't heard one single name, and don't say Jose. If anyone thinks he can do better than Rafa with the current team is mental.

Hello Red is spot on!