Liverpool FC Forum

by **gato_busta** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:16 pm

Pedro Maradona wrote:problem is Mascherano is a defensive midfielder, (south american teams always have a reliance on a playmaker the number ten who effectively runs the game and a grafter, mascherano is a grafter, (IMO the best defensive midfielder in the world) Mascherano is protecting the back four especially with the lack of pace with our centre backs. I think he has the ability to be more offnsive minded but i think Rafa is saying no ur primary job is protect the centre backs this leaves a bit of a gap in the centre of the field where Steven Gerrard is meant to be Steven Gerrard is not a playmaker, a fabulous footballer whose best work is in the final third of the pitch, Alonso is more of a playmaker and was badly missed the last few games. I think Agger and Alonso are vital to this team and it has shown the last few games. Sissoko is a centre midfilder who is the ultimate grafter. so we lack the playmaker in the form of Gary MacAllister or a Juan Roman Riquelme....play gerrard off of a lone centre forward buy riquelme and have mascherano as your defensive midfielder.....

I agree with Pedro. When Mascherano plays for Argentina he seems much more attack minded. He is constantly closer to the box and he even scored a couple for Argentina en the last Copa America. With Gerrard in the team I guess the manager tells him to stay behind and give more space for Gerrard to play and without Agger in the team, he has to stay even further back to compensate hyppas lack of pace.

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:08 pm

I was at last night game and i dont care if stevie throws his dummy out hes got to go back to playing on the right put masha and xavi in the middle end of.

by **KOPMATT** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:31 pm

Quaresma looks a good bet although I was hoping for Mancini but looks like he's staying put don't it? For me although i like Kuyt would love to see Babel upfront with Torres.
If we are gonna spend money up front and i know it's been mentioned time and time again Owen would be able to do a good job for us if he can stay fit long enough???

by **KOPMATT** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:32 pm

Nanny thats something I've also hit on Stevie out on the right and we know he'll come inside but he did it well when he was there. And i think i prefer Xavi and Mash in the middle too

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:35 pm

"I think he scored 23 goals when I played him at right wing no ? So if he scores 24 this season then we will see"

Says it all for me.

by **crazyhorse** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:25 am

I think there is a certain amount of truth to what has been said here so far.. We do lack enough players in the 11 who can unlock a defence, and we are not scoring enough goals from midfield.

I agree also that a lot of the time the midfield is being by-passed by long balls over their heads, but when this happens the midfield is too deep and no one ends up contesting the second ball. With the talent in our midfield in terms of ground passing, we should be trying to knock the ball around a bit and working gaps in opposition defences. At the moment I feel we are trying too hard to go for the channels with long balls, and when we do this with the midfield so deep players like Mascherano are not in the right positions to win the ball back in areas where we can really punish the opposition.

I also see Kuyt running his balls off every week for little reward, he is working hard for the team but at the same time he is often in the wrong area of the field when he is required in the box.

In short the crux of my argument is that we play too deep, knock too much long and leave the front two isolated for too long. I dont think Rafa knows what his best team is, and I dont think he has 100% faith in the ability of some of those he is picking either.

by **NANNY RED** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:48 am

Kharhaz wrote:"I think he scored 23 goals when I played him at right wing no ? So if he scores 24 this season then we will see"

Says it all for me.

A player who scores 23 goals playing on the right yes

Well that will do for me

by **whylongball?** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:23 am

imo SG has to show his worth now as the captain
(and to justify his wage)

by **Rimetto_** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:27 am

NANNY RED wrote:I was at last night game and i dont care if stevie throws his dummy out hes got to go back to playing on the right put masha and xavi in the middle end of.

i totally agree, i love to see stevie powering onto the ball from central midfield but he is still by far our best right midfielder and until rafa brings in a world class winger he needs to play there for us and let mascha and alonso control the centre

by **mattylfc** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:09 am

Midfield is definitely a problem at the moment but it doesnt stop there. I think that the last few games have highlighted the fact that Mascherano is a great ball winner and can play a 10 yard pass but he is rarely going to unlock a defense or create something going forward. The other night you could see Gerrard constantly peeling off to the left and right creating space for Masch to use the ball but he just didnt know how to.

This is not a dig at Masch at all, he is a great player. I am just saying that we should know his strengths by now and playing against teams who defend well with lots of players behind teh ball, he will sometimes struggle. When Alonso is back and fit we will once again have someone in the centre who can pass the ball, switch the play from left to right and also create openings for our forwards. Alonso is a player who can take a pass under pressure and can control the tempo of the game, something we have missed.

The other night would have been perfect for Alonso as we had so much space in the middle at times. As i say though, the problem doesnt stop there. Pennant wasnt good the other night and never really provided us with the outlet we needed. You could also see with Babel that he is still getting use to playing on the wing. He did show flashes though of what he could do for us (when he plays in the centre). He is extremely direct and has great pace.

Our biggest problem the other night though IMO was our two front players, Kuyt and Voronin. Both were coming too deep and neither player was holding the ball up well enough to enable our midfield to support. They rushed things, gave the ball away cheaply and they werent getting into dangerous positions in the box when we needed them too.

What worried me is the fact that neither Voronin or Kuyt were having great games and Rafa still left it till the last 10mins to give Crouch a run out. In just a few minutes crouch was in the right position to win a header in the box which eventually led to our goal.

At the moment i am starting to wonder where our goals are going to come from. Voronin, Crouch and Kuyt will chip in with a few goals. Torres, we hope will continue to score and Gerrard will always get us a few goals from midfield. Other than that, where are our goals going to come from? We just seem so dependant on our strikers at times and it worries me to be honest.

by **stmichael** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:43 pm

I really rate Macherano but this season he's not performing to the level he's capable of. I watched him playing for Argentina a few weeks back and have watched him recently for us and it's like night and day. For Argentina he was always coming to take the ball of the centre backs, passing it short and then linking up with the play again. I just haven't seen this for us.

As for Gerrard, he's a fantastic player but Rafa see's him as a luxury more than anything else. He hasn't got the discipline to play central midfield in a Benitez side but at the moment we need him playing there because there's little creativity coming from the midfield in general. Hopefully Alonso's return will take some of the pressure off Gerrard.

by **Avi Cohen** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:33 pm

stmichael wrote:I really rate Macherano but this season he's not performing to the level he's capable of. I watched him playing for Argentina a few weeks back and have watched him recently for us and it's like night and day. For Argentina he was always coming to take the ball of the centre backs, passing it short and then linking up with the play again. I just haven't seen this for us.

As for Gerrard, he's a fantastic player but Rafa see's him as a luxury more than anything else. He hasn't got the discipline to play central midfield in a Benitez side but at the moment we need him playing there because there's little creativity coming from the midfield in general. Hopefully Alonso's return will take some of the pressure off Gerrard.

Couldn't agree more. Masch isn't getting on the ball because he's being told not to.

Its all psychology: There are two types of football managers: one who reckons the team could create something having the ball in the middle of the park, and one who thinks we're going to lose the ball. Rafa IMO is the latter. This is why the midfield is bypassed and balls are punted up the field by Carra, Sami, Finnan and Risse. Rafa is a negative manager - he should concentrate more on our strengths and less on theirs.

LET LIVERPOOL PLAY.

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