Conspiracy theories - Which do you believe

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Postby Kharhaz » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:40 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Aliens are possible, fairies are possible. It is a question of PROBABILITY.

Fairies? you kidding me? and Santas gonna solve my xmas worries and get my kids what they want.

Absolutely.

Dear Santa....
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:58 am

The new owner of the WTC lease bought it for $15 million 6 weeks before the "incident" and then immediately changed the WTC insurance policy to directly include terrorist attack... when that was up 'til then specifically excluded... he then managed to double the insurance payout due to managing to successfully argue that the two separate planes counted as two separate incidents and managed to get... wait for it... £7 billion dollars... Shocked

- The dutch demolition expert looking at footage of building 7 and saying it was a classic "controlled demolition"

-The reports from people about weeks of drilling and heavy machinery in "empty" wtc floors... then when they checked, there was nothing in there at all except for lots of dust...

-The way that Bush and Cheney blocked the enquiry for, what, 400+ days ? Then insisted on being interviewed together, unrecorded and not under oath...


anyway we are all forgetting about the pentagon, what hit the pentagon, it certainly wasn't a large passenger plane
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:30 am

LFC2007 wrote:You should absolutely be looked at as a nut, IF, you believe that the US gov't undertook a plot to kill their own citizens on 9/11.

Having read the thread from start to finish, I really enjoyed it and ALL of the theories raise perfectly vaild questions and all of them are excellent to read. Especially the Paul McCartney one.

You have tried your best to ruin the thread however, and comments such as this above, completely dismisses anything you've said as completely idiotic.

What about Roswell? Do you seriously believe that the world leading Governments want the world to know about these things? Do you seriously believe that these things suggested are impossible?

Human beings are capable of the same things with the same emotions. Obviously there are minor differences, but in general, people are all the same. People covers a murdering pyscho, a footballer, a child, a normal working man/woman. We're all the same with the same emotions, we're all able to kill, we all think...

You're typical arsewhole dismissive attitude towards everything is clear for everyone to see. You continue to live in your little fancy world with media filled opinions lad...

For you to dismiss these and start calling people names because in your worthless opinion, these aren't "credible" shows exactly the type of character you are.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:45 am

Smeg wrote:Having read the thread from start to finish, I really enjoyed it and ALL of the theories raise perfectly vaild questions and all of them are excellent to read. Especially the Paul McCartney one.

You have tried your best to ruin the thread however, and comments such as this above, completely dismisses anything you've said as completely idiotic.

What about Roswell? Do you seriously believe that the world leading Governments want the world to know about these things? Do you seriously believe that these things suggested are impossible?

Human beings are capable of the same things with the same emotions. Obviously there are minor differences, but in general, people are all the same. People covers a murdering pyscho, a footballer, a child, a normal working man/woman. We're all the same with the same emotions, we're all able to kill, we all think...

You're typical arsewhole dismissive attitude towards everything is clear for everyone to see. You continue to live in your little fancy world with media filled opinions lad...

You might think everythings black and white, some of us prefere to think for ourselves.

Stu, you're just about the biggest cretin on this forum, not too far off Heimdall.

Save the preaching, you've been banned before yet you come back using someone esle's account and start the abuse again. You get warned, say your not going to post again, what do you do? Post again.

It's typical of you.

Regarding the issues in this thread.

You have your opinion, I have mine. My view is not to believe the lies posted on far-left websites.

Ity's very easy to regurgitate sh!t from these websites, I'd rather not.

I deal in basic principle and official fact, not false information.

All of the claims made by people in this thread have been debunked by official sources, but they must be in on the conspiracy too.

It's a mentality, it's no surprise that the same people who thought I was AB and then Karim are the same people who indulge in conspiracy theories of the most absurd order.

I'm afraid that these conspiracy theories are far from 'clear for everyone to see'. In fact, I'd contend that the vast majority of people on this forum don't believe the theories put forward.

Certainly, the majority of people in the world accept it for what it is - a disaster perpetrated and admitted by Al Qaeda.

I'm not swayed by the far-left websites who have their own political agenda'd. I'll go by the official engineers appointed to analyse the collapse of the building, I'll go by reliable sources of information.

You believe what you like son, that's down to you.

I've in no way ruined this thread, people are accusing others of mass genocide. I have a right to express my views against this.

You may find these theories enjoyable, just like I used to find the x-files enjoyable, they are however very far from reality.
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:52 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Hold on a second. You made me laugh here. Really. I'm not arguing with you, so why make it out as if I am. I'm not on her preaching theories as if they are truth like they are my own brainchild. .

1. You are supporting a theory that has no credibility, that is derived from far-left lunatics who falsify evidence and who know nothing about the structural causes for the collapse.

I'm just pointing them out that there is some valid points to be taken seriously from them


2. I am saying, there is absolutely nothing that can be taken from a conspiracy theory that accuses the U.S. gov't of undertaking a plot to kill its own people.

3. The structural questions are disputed in as far as [B]the way in which the building collapsed[B] can be disputed to have occurred as a result of different structural weakness, the reason for the collapse however, begins and ends with an aeroplane.

Though you say that I'd be nuts for thinking the American government wouldn't be capable of killing it's own. How do you know they wouldn't? They have done and still do. Just in different forms or methods.


4. I know that the scope for such a plan to take place is far fetched to the extreme, this is not watergate, this is an accusation of mass genocide without a motive. Since when has the U.S. gov't massacred thousands of its own people on purpose? It hasn't, you would therefore be wrong in your assertion that they have done and continue to do.

And why are you asking me to provide answers to things that I didn't even come up with in the first place. Like I say, I just agree with some of the things, and don't with others. I'm not willing to discredit them. It's just my opinion on the matter.


5. You suggest that a plot by the US gov't to rig the WTC with explosives is feasible, yet you provide no motive, and will not be able to provide a motive that is anything like feasible. What forms the basis of a conspiracy theory? A MOTIVE.

1. Has no credibility? Why? Because its not "official"? How do you know these people are "lunatics"? That they "falsify evidence"? Or how, even for that matter do you know they have no knowledge of the structure of the building and what would cause such a reaction...

2. Why?

3. And you know this how?
(a) Because this is what the media told you?
(b) Because this is the only "plausible" explaination?
© Because this is the easiest thing to believe?
(d) Because the people who question the government can't possibley be correct?
(e) Because you were there and studied this?
(f) Its just impossible for the government to want to cover something up?

4. So because somethings far fetched that makes it impossible? Unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Theres a saying, "first time for everything". No-one here is making "assertations" that they did, people are questioning whether or not they did.

5. No-one knows the motive. What exactly is anyones motive for doing something. You have no idea what so ever.

Its not beyond the realms of possiblity that they were looking for a way to start a war with the other countries involved. But then, I supose it is as that was never an "official" statement. Basically, you're passing your "opinion and beliefs" off as facts on something you have absoloutely no, if any, only limited knowledge of.

Again, you maybe happy to just sit back and listen to the news. You maybe happy to believe EVERYTHING you hear. There are some of us who prefere to think for ourselves.
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:54 am

LFC2007 wrote:You may find these theories enjoyable, just like I used to find the x-files enjoyable, they are however very far from reality.

Prove it.
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:57 am

Kharhaz wrote:Is there really an area 51? just played Deus Ex and there were a couple on there ! must be true just lost on poker to Roswell the scheming little alien lowlife ! (Hoyle Casino)

Yes there is an Area 51 and yes they will shoot you if they catch you over the boarderline without hesitation.
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:00 am

LFC2007 wrote:It's a mentality, it's no surprise that the same people who thought I was AB and then Karim are the same people who indulge in conspiracy theories of the most absurd order.

:laugh:
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Postby red37 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:01 am

Lads. Please do not ruin this thread with insults. By all means stand your own corner on these issues, but please refrain (ALL of you who are intending to) from levying the tag of ignorance against those who wish (as is their right) to dissect/put forward/discuss/pull apart/disagree with etc...the opinions and the general 'theme' of the topic. Its a cracking read throughout - it'll be a shame if it gets to the point where one of us closes it because of the usual cr@p surfacing. You have been advised.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:03 am

Smeg wrote:1. Has no credibility? Why? Because its not "official"? How do you know these people are "lunatics"? That they "falsify evidence"? Or how, even for that matter do you know they have no knowledge of the structure of the building and what would cause such a reaction...

2. Why?

3. And you know this how?
(a) Because this is what the media told you?
(b) Because this is the only "plausible" explaination?
© Because this is the easiest thing to believe?
(d) Because the people who question the government can't possibley be correct?
(e) Because you were there and studied this?
(f) Its just impossible for the government to want to cover something up?

4. So because somethings far fetched that makes it impossible? Unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Theres a saying, "first time for everything". No-one here is making "assertations" that they did, people are questioning whether or not they did.

5. No-one knows the motive. What exactly is anyones motive for doing something. You have no idea what so ever.

Its not beyond the realms of possiblity that they were looking for a way to start a war with the other countries involved. But then, I supose it is as that was never an "official" statement. Basically, you're passing your "opinion and beliefs" off as facts on something you have absoloutely no, if any, only limited knowledge of.

Again, you maybe happy to just sit back and listen to the news. You maybe happy to believe EVERYTHING you hear. There are some of us who prefere to think for ourselves.

1) Has no credibility, not from an official source - or a reliable source but a far-left website with a political agenda, and not supported by the vast majority of people.


2) Why? The evidence provided is false, derived from websites who specialise in this type of thing.

3) No, the offical review confirms this.

4) Far fetched when you analyse circumstance and feasibility - already explained.

5) Why do you think it is called a conspiracy? Because there must be a motive. Otherwise what is the purpose of the conspiracy? You're as thick as sh!t.


You're a suspicion merchant, like some others on this forum are. I question everythjing the media spout, everything the gov't put to us. I do however refrain from believeing the far-left conspiracy theorists as I know they have a political agenda.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:04 am

Smeg wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:You may find these theories enjoyable, just like I used to find the x-files enjoyable, they are however very far from reality.

Prove it.

It's for you to prove, your believe the theory, you prove it.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:09 am

I have said it's possible - which makes your quote incorrect,


No you are wrong again, you said :-
All of these people, or a vast preponderance of these people would have had to have been aware of such a plot. Otherwise it is simply not possible .


To which I replied :-As you or I don't know how the conspiracy of 911 could have been carried out ,I fail to see how you can say all or MOST of these people would have to know, or THAT ITS NOT POSSIBLE. Improbable, unlikely but possible depending on which scenario you do or don't believe.

Your examples are of no practical relevance, as neither you or I know what senario did (or did not )take place.

In any case, the collapse of the building CLEARLY indicates that there was no explosion coming from anywhere near the car park. The building pancaked, just viewing the video disproves this idea.


No it doesn't.

Please explain. The burden of proof is not on me, it's on those who believe the theory


I have stated from the first that I don't believe the theories so I have no burden, I am however open and willing to explore possibilities.

WTC management would also have to be in on it

No they wouldn't. Just because you quote your opinion as fact doesn't mean it is.

The racial situation has changed dramatically since the 60's (I presume you're referring to this period). If you are suggesting that black people in the U.S. are being oppressed as a comparison to the oppression in Cambodia and Nazi Germany then you are grossly misinformed.


No it was in reply to your quote that the USA "has no record of oppressing its own people". The USA  has a long history of oppressing its people, didn't you know that, or maybe you were just misinformed.

I'll repeat it again, and again. Yes, it's possible

Thank you :D
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:21 am

s@int wrote:
I have said it's possible - which makes your quote incorrect,


1. No you are wrong again, you said :-
All of these people, or a vast preponderance of these people would have had to have been aware of such a plot. Otherwise it is simply not possible .


To which I replied :-As you or I don't know how the conspiracy of 911 could have been carried out ,I fail to see how you can say all or MOST of these people would have to know, or THAT ITS NOT POSSIBLE. Improbable, unlikely but possible depending on which scenario you do or don't believe.

Your examples are of no practical relevance, as neither you or I know what senario did (or did not )take place.

In any case, the collapse of the building CLEARLY indicates that there was no explosion coming from anywhere near the car park. The building pancaked, just viewing the video disproves this idea.


2.No it doesn't.

Please explain. The burden of proof is not on me, it's on those who believe the theory


3.I have stated from the first that I don't believe the theories so I have no burden, I am however open and willing to explore possibilities.

WTC management would also have to be in on it

4. No they wouldn't. Just because you quote your opinion as fact doesn't mean it is.

The racial situation has changed dramatically since the 60's (I presume you're referring to this period). If you are suggesting that black people in the U.S. are being oppressed as a comparison to the oppression in Cambodia and Nazi Germany then you are grossly misinformed.


5. No it was in reply to your quote that the USA "has no record of oppressing its own people". The USA  has a long history of oppressing its people, didn't you know that, or maybe you were just misinformed.

6.
I'll repeat it again, and again. Yes, it's possible

Thank you :D

1. It's possible in fairyland, hence why I keep using hyperboles. I thought that was made quite obvious on a number of occasions - Rafa may work for MI5 etc..... IF the situation I presented was the case then de facto it is impossible or nigh on impossible. In context, the point implies that in the specific situation I presented it would be virtually impossible to execute such a plan without being found out.

2. Yes it does, from the offical source and civil engineers. I've seen the official source, you'll find it if you look.

3. You keep proposing ideas without any substantiation.

4. An example of point number 3. You give wishy washy answers, with no substance. You talk about exploring possibilities, explain to me how the ideas you put forward to me are feasible.

5. You've taken the quote out of context. In context it was referring to I was referring to the Bush administration/regime, not US history in general, see the part before the excerpt you quoted. Hence why I keep in referring to CONTEXTUAL examples. It seems you want to take everything out of context. If you want to talk about th issue fine, but don't then remove my words from their original context.

6. See Hyperbole, and please don't quote in isolation - the hyperbole is just as important. I make the overstatement to get my point across. Virtually impossible can be equated to impossible - plus a hyperbolic statement e.g. 'it's impossible, just like fairies may exist' can be equated to 'it's nigh on impossible.'

Manipulating quotes is your forte mate, it's a shame you have to resort to those tactics when your argument falls flat on its face.

The concept of LIKELIHOOD doesn't register in your brain.
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Postby Smeg » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:22 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Smeg wrote:1. Has no credibility? Why? Because its not "official"? How do you know these people are "lunatics"? That they "falsify evidence"? Or how, even for that matter do you know they have no knowledge of the structure of the building and what would cause such a reaction...

2. Why?

3. And you know this how?
(a) Because this is what the media told you?
(b) Because this is the only "plausible" explaination?
© Because this is the easiest thing to believe?
(d) Because the people who question the government can't possibley be correct?
(e) Because you were there and studied this?
(f) Its just impossible for the government to want to cover something up?

4. So because somethings far fetched that makes it impossible? Unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Theres a saying, "first time for everything". No-one here is making "assertations" that they did, people are questioning whether or not they did.

5. No-one knows the motive. What exactly is anyones motive for doing something. You have no idea what so ever.

Its not beyond the realms of possiblity that they were looking for a way to start a war with the other countries involved. But then, I supose it is as that was never an "official" statement. Basically, you're passing your "opinion and beliefs" off as facts on something you have absoloutely no, if any, only limited knowledge of.

Again, you maybe happy to just sit back and listen to the news. You maybe happy to believe EVERYTHING you hear. There are some of us who prefere to think for ourselves.

1) Has no credibility, not from an official source - or a reliable source but a far-left website with a political agenda, and not supported by the vast majority of people.


2) Why? The evidence provided is false, derived from websites who specialise in this type of thing.

3) No, the offical review confirms this.

4) Far fetched when you analyse circumstance and feasibility - already explained.

5) Why do you think it is called a conspiracy? Because there must be a motive. Otherwise what is the purpose of the conspiracy? You're as thick as sh!t.


You're a suspicion merchant, like some others on this forum are. I question everythjing the media spout, everything the gov't put to us. I refrain from believeing the far-left conspiracy theorists as I know they have a political agenda.

1. Not supported by the vast majority? Whats that got to do with anything? You then mention the "o" word... so because its an "official source" that makes it unquestionable?

You then again mention credibility... Why? Whats not credible about asking questions and suggesting other answers than the ones you are given by the media? How about, maybe, just maybe these people are in area's where some of them have actually seen things that make you want to question something. Does that not occur to you? Does it not occur they become suspicious or they have an "agenda" (if they do) because they may well have seen something to make them have this agenda.

Having read the BBC's report about WTC7 collapsing, do you honestly believe its was purely coincidence and no questions should be asked on how the building was reported collapsed a full 23 minutes before it did, then five minutes before the building actually did collapse, they "lost the transmission" think how often that happens on TV... VERY RARE... then, to top it off, the video's are missing?

And no questions should be asked because the official BBC statement says it was a coincidence and a :censored: up?

Please.

2. Prove the evidence is false. Its false in your opinion. No fact, no "official statements" to back it up. You can't be 100% certain the evidence is false, which is why its silly to not only dismiss it, but call others names when they bring it into the arguement.

3. The official review? What exactly is an official review? A person's opinion as to what happened is what. Whether qualified or not, its still opinion. And as I've already said, and will say again, if something is "official" does that mean its not to be questioned?

4. Again, like I said but you're unable to comprehend... Does that make it impossible, unfeasable or whatever other word you want to throw in there? No it doesn't. You're basing you're opinion on the fact something like this "may not" have happened before in this particular country. As I've said, first time for everything. Its not my belief there is a motive, I'm not sure what I believe on the matter. My issue is with the ignorance you dismiss other peoples views. Especially people you don't know, who could well have actually been there.

5. Keep name calling, its all you've got because you had your "answers" completely ripped to shreds with reasonable debate. You've done nothing but repeat yourself in your last post which proves you don't have the answers to any of the questions I asked you.

For you to come into an area you know absoloutely nothing/very little about and start name calling is a bit daft really. At least when I do it, its when people talk :censored: about an area in which they firstly, aren't qualified in or secondly, generally know nothing about and fellow general opinion.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:24 am

LFC2007 wrote:
s@int wrote:No read what I wrote again ,  I say the fact that I don't believe them doesn't make the possibility of them being true any less, just as if I did believe them that wouldn't make them true.

You believe that there is little evidence to support the theory in your opinion at this moment in time, therefore, the likelihood of it being true must be lessened. The reason you don't believe the theory is down to a lack of evidence, therefore the likelihood MUST be decreased.

It's a clear contradiction.

No its not, what I believe or dont, has no bearing on whether it was in fact a conspiracy or not.


Just because you believe in the possibility of fairies doesn't increase the likelyhood of them existing. You may have seen a toadstool but whether you believe its a fairies chair is up to you.

What I believe is more dependent on what I have read and seen than on actual evidence. So my beliefs have no bearing whatsoever as to what actually took place.
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