Liverpool FC Forum

Rafa-Dodd wrote:Scores a couple of goals, and he's now flavour of the month.

I don't doubt that Voronin has ability and can do extremely well for us. He has proved that he is more than capable of playing well for us in his relatively short time here, and the 2 goals are a nice added bonus. However the sudden bias against Kuyt now, because Voronin's scored twice is laughable.

I remember when we announced we signed Voronin people were saying it was a bad transfer etc, I didn't but I won't be saying he's a better option than Kuyt now after 4 games into the season.

Kuyt is a very accomplished footballer in my eyes. He's not just a "workhorse" as some have suggested. He always finds space off the ball, is good at linking up the play, he can actually pass the ball very very well and his work ethic means the opposition ALWAYS have something to deal with. The only slight knock in his game is that he is having trouble emulating his scoring record from Holland. I have no doubt that will come. 

People's views change like the wind here.

maypaxvobiscum wrote:

maguskwt wrote:"kuyt runs around like a headless chicken..."

I don't think so maypaxvobiscum... someone who runs like a healess chicken is baros... kuyt runs are actually alot more usefull for the team...

remember the goal we got against villa was because of his hustling...

yes thats a one-off thing. no doubt he is a hard worker but he has not shown he can hit 20 goals a season like he did in the dutch league. when he first came i guess people's opinion was that he is gonna be the man to score alot of goals but he hasnt. unlike voronin, he cant create something out of nothing. if he can, im yet to see it.

bigmick wrote:Well I know it's early but feck it lets have a go   

Firstly it is fairly obvious that those who sneered at the signing of Voronin were laughably wide of the mark. I'd never heard of him to be honest never mind seen him play but it is patently obvious within a couple of minutes of him being involved in a game of football that he is a good player. Quite why he apparently didn't ever shine in his previous environment is a complete mystery to me because he is a very talented footballer.

He is built like a brick sh!thouse and looks a bit like a pikey roofer, but he posesses a sureness of touch and a delicacy of control which belies his stature. Many will laugh but not since Cantona has a players game been totally at odds with his brickie exterior. I think I'm right in saying that his excellent goal at Toulouse was hit with the left foot, while he checked back in to hit it with his right on Saturday. He seems willing to breeze past a defender on either side and while not exactly being Luis Garcia, seems to have a decent spring and heading ability.

He really ought to have scored earlier than he did, firstly when he got onto the back pass (showing excellent "game inrtelligence" to quote Rafa) and particularly in the second half when he hit the keeper from the pull back with the goal gaping. This chance more than anything else indicated that he would probably score regularly given a run, because as I always go on about he gets himself open in the box. If you watch him there are many occasions where if the ball bounces near him he will be in a position to score a goal. Neither Kuyt nor Crouch do this often enough for me (for that matter neither does Torres but he can sparkle past people and create his own openings).

His lay-off to Sissoko for the first goal was absolutely perfect. There is more to laying it back for a bloke to hit it than just passing it to him, the ball to Sissoko was measured, rolled, and crucially was rolled onto his right peg so he could hit it without breaking stride. He made a complete nonsense of trying to play Torres in towards the end of the game but no matter, the bloke can play and he's a brilliant aquisition ona  free.

Would I play him in front of Kuyt? Not yet. The Dutchman deserves a run of a dozen games or so to find his feet and do the business. Also, I feel we may get more longevity out of Torres if he has Kuyt alongside him doing his donkey work. Such has been the young Spaniards impact that my suspicion is that whichever of our wide players and front men best gel with him will be the ones who make the most appearances. Kuyt hasn't started badly, and despite Voronin's eyecatching displays the Dutchman is entitled to get a decent go.

Pikey roofer!     

I think this is a fair assessment, mate, but I wonder if the argument you've been making about Crouch at the start of last season shouldn't be applied to Voronin now: he's arguably are in-form striker in terms of goal-scoring and thus should be given a run of games with Torres to see if he can hit a real purple patch?

Personally, I like Kuyt and think he brings an awful lot to the team but I agree that carrying a goal threat remains a striker's most important job on the pitch.  At the moment, I think Torres and Voronin carry a greater goal threat than either Kuyt or Crouch and thus should be our first choice strike partnership for the foreseeable.

Alternatively, it could just be that Voronin's goal-scoring power resides in his pony tail, in which case I would urge Crouchy and Kuyt to invest in some hair extensions or some Miracle Gro!

maguskwt wrote:

maypaxvobiscum wrote:

maguskwt wrote:"kuyt runs around like a headless chicken..."

I don't think so maypaxvobiscum... someone who runs like a healess chicken is baros... kuyt runs are actually alot more usefull for the team...

remember the goal we got against villa was because of his hustling...

yes thats a one-off thing. no doubt he is a hard worker but he has not shown he can hit 20 goals a season like he did in the dutch league. when he first came i guess people's opinion was that he is gonna be the man to score alot of goals but he hasnt. unlike voronin, he cant create something out of nothing. if he can, im yet to see it.

I would give him till end of season before I say such damning accusations as "he's not good enough"... he's had a successful 1st year... we can judge him after his second year... for all you know he might be another baros... but maybe not... one thing is sure... you can't judge a player only by the number of goals he scores... you need to see his contributions besides goals...

fact remains that when kuyt plays we are less stagnant than when crouch plays... he is a handful to defenders if you like it or not and this allows gerrard and others to attack the goal... he pull defenders wide and he squares the ball back to the centre for gerrard to run on...

another thing to point out is that... I rate kuyt alot higher than emile heskey... yet at one season heskey scored 22 goals... it was when owen got his first serious hamstring injury i believe... this shows that even a mediocre striker when he's played as the main striker can score goals... this shows that a striker's goal tally depends on how he is played... and this applies to kuyt as well... so far he's not been played as the main striker... but the second striker... it also shows that the goal tally alone is very misleading to judge a striker's quality...

good point that kuyt doesnt stagnate the play the way crouch does. but we are talking about voronin here, not crouch. i wont be suprised to see crouch packing up soon.

if im not wrong however i remember one poster here saying that kuyt is playing his normal game like he did back in holland.

but while i can accept the fact kuyt is useful, at this point in time voronin offers a bigger threat to oppo defenders then kuyt.

ps: i do like milan baros 

YAWL wrote:Been very impressed with Voronin and was from pre season.  I like it how he can play as the supporting striker, 'between the lines'.  But also directly upfront if needed as he has good pace.  Another good rounded striker and so far he's been a bargain.

The thing I like about Voronin is he scores.  Kuyt only got one away league goal last season.  Voronin has started two games this season and scored two. 

Should get lots more games with this form.

Totally agree you should always stick by a striker in form he could well be the bargain of the season