Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedBlood** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:49 pm

its pointless talking about it because its going to happen

and rightly so you cant expect the same 11 players to start every game in a 60/70 game season plus internationals at the pace the game is played now and any1 that trys to argue against it is a fuc.king idiot thats stuck in the 80's

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:27 pm

DAV wrote:why wasnt i told about these condom things
I didnt rotate and now have 4 kids
?

its a good thing u didnt rotate partners otherwise you'ld have even more :laugh:

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:11 am

IMHO, this whole discussion's gone a bit stale.

I'd definately agree with you there Bobby !

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:41 am

Bad Bob--we will win the league this year, no worries there pal, but lets be honest, the reason why we'll win it is because it will be the same 11 players starting almost every league game. As I've said earlier, Rafa can rotate all he likes with cup competitions, but for the league there should be stability there. Look at great sides since football has started, you can pick at least 10 players in every side week in week out, with 1 position possibly up for grabs. With Liverpool under Benitez certainly, they're is only 1 player who knows he is playing the following game in the same position, Pepe Reina. Gerrard played his heart out against Villa in central midfield, so against Chelsea he'll be on the right wing, then against Sunderland he'll be on the left and in the return leg against Toulouse he'll be just behind the front man. He doesn't know if he's coming or going which hinders his performances, and it's the same with everybody else. Players aren't playing their hearts out because they know they'll be dropped even if they do. Players need to know they'll be playing week in week out. If injuries hit or suspensions or a little dip in form then, fair play change that player. But because one player is missing, doesn't mean 4 or 5 other players should be changed. Liverpool won the league using only 14 players in an entire season once. Liverpool haven't won the league for 17 long years why? because of far too much rotation. Souness changed the club from top to bottom in his era, again no stability throughout the club. Evans had to change everything Souness fuc.ked up, but his selection was pretty much the same every week, but because of the repair damage he had to do, there wasn't enough stability. Also he was unlucky to be manager when Untied were at their peak. Houiller rotated every other week, one week it'd be Murphy, then Smicer, then back to Murphy and just for good messaure Davie Thompson would be given the odd go. And as for Benitez, rotation just seems to be his method and he's not prepared to change his method. Stability on the pitch is key and right now that's what we don't have.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:36 am

Well I've said on a number of occasions this rotation thing is an old argument. Rafa made a nonsense of it last season, and I believe he is fully aware of the fact. With that in mind, I expect the eleven which will start against Chelsea will be the same eleven but for possiblly one change as the eleven who started against Villa. Already so far this season, he is demonstrating that the stick all the names in a hat approach of the last few years is a thing of the past.

He knows it's true, no team will ever win the English Premier League with mass rotation of personel, tactics and player positions. Forget about Valencia, no team wil win the Premiership doing that, ever. I'm setting myself up here to get egg on my face big time, but my guess is that when the people in the know start posting the starting line up on here in a couple of hours time it will barring injury be the same team as the one which started at Villa.

Rafa is a clever manager and he's seen the light. :;):

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:29 pm

Rafael Benitez believes he could hold a major advantage over opposing managers this season - because his starting eleven is going to be almost impossible to predict.
With quality cover now available in every position on the field, the Liverpool manager knows he can chop and change his team as much as he likes without any concerns over a fall in standards.

As if to prove the point, Benitez made six changes for the clash in Toulouse in midweek to the side which won at Aston Villa on the opening day of the season, and watched with a satisfied smile as his players delivered the goods in the south of France.

More changes are expected for today's visit of Chelsea and Benitez admits he can now enjoy the prospect of opposing managers attempting to second guess his pre-match thoughts.

"It's not easy for anyone to predict the team now because we have two players in each position," said Benitez.

"After just two games, people can see it's fantastic for us because we can change six players as we did in Toulouse and still win the game. But of course, I know such positive judgements will depend on the results. When we change the team and win it's good news, but if we don't people will say 'why change?'.

"What's important is that we don't just have a lot of options, but we now also have different qualities to change a game from the bench, using players who can have an impact in the way Babel did at Aston Villa last week.

"I hope I won't have to try to change too many games this season, but if I have to do it, I am able to do it with confidence now."

Well thats probably just blown you theory out of the water Mick.

by **username** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:14 pm

did i just read sky sports team news right, has he kept the same team he played against villa!!!

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:47 am

bigmick wrote:Well I've said on a number of occasions this rotation thing is an old argument. Rafa made a nonsense of it last season, and I believe he is fully aware of the fact. With that in mind, I expect the eleven which will start against Chelsea will be the same eleven but for possiblly one change as the eleven who started against Villa. Already so far this season, he is demonstrating that the stick all the names in a hat approach of the last few years is a thing of the past.

He knows it's true, no team will ever win the English Premier League with mass rotation of personel, tactics and player positions. Forget about Valencia, no team wil win the Premiership doing that, ever. I'm setting myself up here to get egg on my face big time, but my guess is that when the people in the know start posting the starting line up on here in a couple of hours time it will barring injury be the same team as the one which started at Villa.

Rafa is a clever manager and he's seen the light.

Well in, Mick...you called that one right!

Now, will he stick with the same 11 for Sunderland or will the impulse to "tinker" take over?

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:43 am

I hope we make some changes. I want Crouchie to get a proper chance in the league and Voronin should at least be on the bench. Give Babel 90 minutes on the left and see what he creates, plus looks like Stevie G will be out recovering from his toe injury but I guess that doesn't count as rotation.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:53 am

JoeTerp wrote:I hope we make some changes. I want Crouchie to get a proper chance in the league and Voronin should at least be on the bench. Give Babel 90 minutes on the left and see what he creates, plus looks like Stevie G will be out recovering from his toe injury but I guess that doesn't count as rotation.

I dont think too many changes are needed in all honesty.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:05 pm

I reckon Rafa must read the forum

Anyway, I've been saying for a while that those who have defended the whole rotation thing are defending a mantra which has long since passed its sell-by date and so it proved. If the system is so fantastic why has rafa so obviously gone off the idea? Paul Tiompkins, where are you now?

That said he'll probably have to change it against Sunderland because I imagine Gerrard won't play. That being the case my feeling is Sissoko will get a game, with an added hunch that Hyppia may get his first league start of the campaign.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:06 pm

Oh yeah he must have gone off the idea of rotation, i mean we have played all of 2 games! Well we rotated for Tolouse and you expect to for Sunderland.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:33 pm

Well the same side for two league games and both results would of been different had refs done their jobs properly.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:09 am

I think it's only fair that those of us who have slagged off the rotation front up when we get a result after some tinkering. FWIW I thought it was largely sensible (I guess it's easy to say that when we've won) and we were aided by a poor Sunderland team. The same back four played for 80% of the game (admittedly due to Hyppia's injury), and we had Sissoko as a straight swap for the injured Gerrard. Babbel came in for Riise (an unnecessary fiddle in my opinion) and Voronin came in for Kuyt (I would personally have gone with Crouch but no matter, Voronin did well).

All in all it didn't disrupt us massively if I'm honest. Once Gerrard doesn't play we look like a completely different team anyway in my opinion, so Voronin for Kuyt was hardly going to make much difference. As I said my only concern would have been the unnecessary rotation of Riise and Babbel but no matter, we got the win. I do hope though, that it doesn't encourage Rafa into his more outlandish and mind boggling mode. We have started well with sensible selections, what we don't need now is Babbel on his own up front with an upended Christmas tree midfield, three at the back with Gerrard wide-left and Lee Peltier playing as a sweeper. Perhaps rafa could get his silliness out of his system against Toulouse, before reverting to any ten from the eleven of Reina, Finnan, Agger, Hyppia (assuming Carraghers not fit), Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Gerrard, Riise, Kuyt and Torres. It's a bit boring but it's currently near to our best team and perhaps we should give the blokes chance to get to know each other a bit.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:55 am

bigmick wrote:I think it's only fair that those of us who have slagged off the rotation front up when we get a result after some tinkering. FWIW I thought it was largely sensible (I guess it's easy to say that when we've won) and we were aided by a poor Sunderland team. The same back four played for 80% of the game (admittedly due to Hyppia's injury), and we had Sissoko as a straight swap for the injured Gerrard. Babbel came in for Riise (an unnecessary fiddle in my opinion) and Voronin came in for Kuyt (I would personally have gone with Crouch but no matter, Voronin did well).

All in all it didn't disrupt us massively if I'm honest. Once Gerrard doesn't play we look like a completely different team anyway in my opinion, so Voronin for Kuyt was hardly going to make much difference. As I said my only concern would have been the unnecessary rotation of Riise and Babbel but no matter, we got the win. I do hope though, that it doesn't encourage Rafa into his more outlandish and mind boggling mode. We have started well with sensible selections, what we don't need now is Babbel on his own up front with an upended Christmas tree midfield, three at the back with Gerrard wide-left and Lee Peltier playing as a sweeper. Perhaps rafa could get his silliness out of his system against Toulouse, before reverting to any ten from the eleven of Reina, Finnan, Agger, Hyppia (assuming Carraghers not fit), Arbeloa, Pennant, Alonso, Gerrard, Riise, Kuyt and Torres. It's a bit boring but it's currently near to our best team and perhaps we should give the blokes chance to get to know each other a bit.

Mick you make some fare points there mate , especially about the rotating players out of position part.

I'm not saying for one minute you'll come round to the idea of rotation but , i think you you may find it a little easier to accept this year . The thing is imo ,the quality of player that is coming in is of a higher standard to that of previous years .

This will obviously mean that making changes to a side will not disrupt the overall fluidity of the side. For example Babel for Gonzales, he has shown this early already imo that he is a far better player than gonzo. Vorinin for Bellamy , two starts, yesterday and Toulouse away, 2 goals scored .

What i'm trying to get at is that the notion of rotation is appalling if you don't have the strength in depth for it to work.

I personally think that the squad is still not strong enough to sustain it over the whole season ,and that's why (and rightly so )Rafa has made the league his priority this season. You'll probably find that the most rotations will take place in the lesser competitions (again rightly so).

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